Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[istro]

Solid work, everyone! Nice to see the progress!

Wondering about what y'all experience with consistency of drag factor has been - when I got my dynamic erg, I had set it up to around 130 - which translated to damper setting around 5. I recently noticed in ErgData that DF had gone down, so over the last few workouts kept bumping up the damper setting to get up to 130. With today's workout it's 130 again; but now the damper setting is at the higher end of notch 6...

Does drag factor drift down over time? Is it affected by the rowing wattage? Have you noticed variability or any trends in your workouts?

---
As to BPP update - finished week 21 today. 15 workouts left in the plan! Also have been bumping up the steady state rows by 500m every time since week 17 - which means tomorrow's steady state to begin week 22 will be a daunting 15k

[Dangerscouse]

Does drag factor drift down over time? Is it affected by the rowing wattage? Have you noticed variability or any trends in your workouts?

The DF will most commonly change due to the accumulation of dust on the flywheel. When did you last clean it? Admittedly, moving from low 5s to high 6s is a big movement. Do you live at altitude?

[btswims]

Week 7 Day 3 -

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Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M   HR	
38:31.2	8,000m	2:24.4	116	699	19	145
7:43.0	1,600m	2:24.6	116	697	19	146
7:36.5	1,600m	2:22.6	121	714	19	147
7:55.6	1,600m	2:28.6	107	666	19	139
7:40.7	1,600m	2:23.9	117	703	19	145
7:35.4	1,600m	2:22.3	121	717	19	151

Week 8 Day 1 -

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Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	HR
39:50.9	8,500m	2:20.6	126	733	18	148
8:02.1	1,700m	2:21.7	123	722	18	144
7:51.7	1,700m	2:18.7	131	751	19	150
7:52.9	1,700m	2:19.0	130	747	19	150
8:02.0	1,700m	2:21.7	123	722	19	148
8:02.2	1,700m	2:21.8	123	722	19	152

8500 was tough, didn't feel great at the 5000 point, but was able to disconnect for the last 2500 and finish it well.

[RayOfSunshine]

Week 7 Day 3 -

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Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M   HR	
38:31.2	8,000m	2:24.4	116	699	19	145
7:43.0	1,600m	2:24.6	116	697	19	146
7:36.5	1,600m	2:22.6	121	714	19	147
7:55.6	1,600m	2:28.6	107	666	19	139
7:40.7	1,600m	2:23.9	117	703	19	145
7:35.4	1,600m	2:22.3	121	717	19	151

Week 8 Day 1 -

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	HR
39:50.9	8,500m	2:20.6	126	733	18	148
8:02.1	1,700m	2:21.7	123	722	18	144
7:51.7	1,700m	2:18.7	131	751	19	150
7:52.9	1,700m	2:19.0	130	747	19	150
8:02.0	1,700m	2:21.7	123	722	19	148
8:02.2	1,700m	2:21.8	123	722	19	152

8500 was tough, didn't feel great at the 5000 point, but was able to disconnect for the last 2500 and finish it well.

Nice work. Curious on your flat HR. Do you warm up quite a bit before your workout? What type of HRM do you have?

For me, I completed day 5 of week 14 this morning.

BPP 14.5 is going at the average BPP 11.2 pace for the 1st 7 intervals then a faster final interval. I went all out on the last interval. I varied the DF between intervals from 68-95.

[btswims]

Nice work. Curious on your flat HR. Do you warm up quite a bit before your workout? What type of HRM do you have?

For me, I completed day 5 of week 14 this morning.

BPP 14.5 is going at the average BPP 11.2 pace for the 1st 7 intervals then a faster final interval. I went all out on the last interval. I varied the DF between intervals from 68-95.

I only do 500m as a warmup and use a Garmin HRM-Pro. During the ss sessions I will monitor hr much more than pace, of course they are connected though... If my hr starts increasing, I will lower my power/stroke rate to get it back in the 140-150 range.

[EastClintwood]

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M     HR
47:15.9	10,000m	2:21.7	123	722	18	142
9:16.5	2,000m	2:19.1	130	747	18	135
9:23.9	2,000m	2:20.9	125	729	18	143
9:24.2	2,000m	2:21.0	125	729	18	144
9:31.6	2,000m	2:22.9	120	712	18	146
9:39.6	2,000m	2:24.9	115	695	18	144

Did a 10k Steady state today. I'm on week 9 of BPP, but I left out the interval sessions for two weeks due to illness around new years eve and did SS like today instead.

I also feel like I need to improve my aerobic base. When I see my pace/watt/HR in comparison to others I feel like I'm really lacking fitness... It's a bit disappointing to see such numbers as I am generally healthy living, good height/weight and I have been doing sports for almost all my life. Kinda weird and as I already said, a bit disappointing.

[mitchel674]

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M     HR
47:15.9	10,000m	2:21.7	123	722	18	142
9:16.5	2,000m	2:19.1	130	747	18	135
9:23.9	2,000m	2:20.9	125	729	18	143
9:24.2	2,000m	2:21.0	125	729	18	144
9:31.6	2,000m	2:22.9	120	712	18	146
9:39.6	2,000m	2:24.9	115	695	18	144

Did a 10k Steady state today. I'm on week 9 of BPP, but I left out the interval sessions for two weeks due to illness around new years eve and did SS like today instead.

I also feel like I need to improve my aerobic base. When I see my pace/watt/HR in comparison to others I feel like I'm really lacking fitness... It's a bit disappointing to see such numbers as I am generally healthy living, good height/weight and I have been doing sports for almost all my life. Kinda weird and as I already said, a bit disappointing.

That's a good steady state piece except where you fell off a bit on the last 2km. Great stroke rate and steady HR. Have you tried 20spm?

Looks a lot like my 10k's but don't go comparing yourself with others.

[RayOfSunshine]

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M     HR
47:15.9	10,000m	2:21.7	123	722	18	142
9:16.5	2,000m	2:19.1	130	747	18	135
9:23.9	2,000m	2:20.9	125	729	18	143
9:24.2	2,000m	2:21.0	125	729	18	144
9:31.6	2,000m	2:22.9	120	712	18	146
9:39.6	2,000m	2:24.9	115	695	18	144

Did a 10k Steady state today. I'm on week 9 of BPP, but I left out the interval sessions for two weeks due to illness around new years eve and did SS like today instead.

I also feel like I need to improve my aerobic base. When I see my pace/watt/HR in comparison to others I feel like I'm really lacking fitness... It's a bit disappointing to see such numbers as I am generally healthy living, good height/weight and I have been doing sports for almost all my life. Kinda weird and as I already said, a bit disappointing.

That's a good steady state piece except where you fell off a bit on the last 2km. Great stroke rate and steady HR. Have you tried 20spm?

Looks a lot like my 10k's but don't go comparing yourself with others.

Agree with Mitchel. Do not compare (though it looks quite good at a glance). Try picking it up to 20spm. The best way to build fitness on the erg (based on my experience) is to be on the erg (doing ss)... so, exactly what you're doing. Keep at it and you'll be surprised.

[Dangerscouse]

I also feel like I need to improve my aerobic base. When I see my pace/watt/HR in comparison to others I feel like I'm really lacking fitness... It's a bit disappointing to see such numbers as I am generally healthy living, good height/weight and I have been doing sports for almost all my life. Kinda weird and as I already said, a bit disappointing.

Erg fitness can be a strange thing for some of us. Even at my fittest, I'd struggle to comfortably run for more than 2km, and it's not unusual.

Your aerobic base and a lower HR will take time to build, so you've got to be persistent, even though it's frustratingly slow. (I'm not saying patient, as that implies it will happen without work, but persistence implies something different). Are you sure your technique is good? You could possibly be leaking power with some bad habits.

As Roosevelt said, comparison is the thief of joy and I'd especially say that for HR. A relatively lower HR is what you're after, and a reduction over time, but there's no magic number for you to reach.

Ideally you want to focus on enjoying the process and not focus on your results. The results will happen eventually, but it won't be as quickly as you'd like.

[EastClintwood]

Thank you for your encouragement, guys.

Well, I really don't want to compare my numbers. I don't want to compete and I am generally just rowing for myself: fitness, health, feeling good. So far, so good.

But I am of course interested in seeing progress. And when I see people rowing SS at ~2:05 with a HR of ~120, I start to wonder if I'll ever get somewhere close to that point when I'm now at ~2:20 with a HR of ~140? Even when I stick to a consistent routine, this seems completely out of reach. And as I said, it's not like I'm a complete unhealthy, overweighted sports noobie. I also wouldn't expect a big jump due to noobie gains anymore, as I'm already 12 weeks on the rower.

I'm just curious why my base fitness seems so bad and where I could get. Oh and while we're at it: I was doing a 2k a month ago and ended at 7:48. I know it's a big jump but would you think it's realistic to make it to a sub7 one day? If yes, how long would that probably take?

And one last thing: you recommended to go up to 20 spm. Whats the point in that compared to 18 spm?

[mitchel674]

Thank you for your encouragement, guys.



I'm just curious why my base fitness seems so bad and where I could get. Oh and while we're at it: I was doing a 2k a month ago and ended at 7:48. I know it's a big jump but would you think it's realistic to make it to a sub7 one day? If yes, how long would that probably take?

And one last thing: you recommended to go up to 20 spm. Whats the point in that compared to 18 spm?

As far as stroke rate, we all have a sweet spot for these steady state rows. I merely suggested a trial at 20 spm for you to experiment a bit. You may prefer 18 spm. I find that 21 spm works best for me for steady state. The flywheel is moving freely at the catch. At 18 spm, I need much more effort to get the flywheel up to speed and this extra effort is not worth the extra rest I gain with fewer strokes.

7:48 time on your 2k seems right in line for your steady state pace. You're doing fine. Just keep at it.

Oh, and don't start thinking about sub7. That's a long way off. Perhaps consider a stab at below 7:45 in a couple of months. Enjoy the small gains along the way!

[Sakly]

Thank you for your encouragement, guys.

Well, I really don't want to compare my numbers. I don't want to compete and I am generally just rowing for myself: fitness, health, feeling good. So far, so good.

But I am of course interested in seeing progress. And when I see people rowing SS at ~2:05 with a HR of ~120, I start to wonder if I'll ever get somewhere close to that point when I'm now at ~2:20 with a HR of ~140? Even when I stick to a consistent routine, this seems completely out of reach. And as I said, it's not like I'm a complete unhealthy, overweighted sports noobie. I also wouldn't expect a big jump due to noobie gains anymore, as I'm already 12 weeks on the rower.

I'm just curious why my base fitness seems so bad and where I could get. Oh and while we're at it: I was doing a 2k a month ago and ended at 7:48. I know it's a big jump but would you think it's realistic to make it to a sub7 one day? If yes, how long would that probably take?

And one last thing: you recommended to go up to 20 spm. Whats the point in that compared to 18 spm?

As already written, we are all different and respond differently to stimuli.
A huge factor for your performance is your starting point. Already doing sports for years doesn't mean anything as long as it was not stimulating the right energy systems you need for rowing. Mainly your aerobic capacity is dictating how far you can go on the rower and additional your lactate threshold and VO2max decides how hard you can go and finish strong. So if your "standard" sports does not trigger improvement of these areas, then your output is lower as you could expect (obviously).
To gain aerobic capacity and improve lactate threshold takes time. Long time.
VO2max can be improved fast, few weeks when doing intervals often.

[namtran0510]

Nice to meet you all, started rowing around November 22 to improve my aerobic base after noticing I get tired very easily when lifting weights for anything above 5 reps. I don't have any athletic background and only started exercising consistently again for about 4 months. I try to do 3 sessions of weights, 3 sessions of rowing per week.

I'm on week 7 of the BPP, and after lurking this forum realised that I'm either doing my SS a bit too fast or I'm just so unfit that my heart rate is relatively high, though it's been dropping compared to my first week or 2. Aiming to get a sub-8 minute 2k after finishing the BPP

Here's the first workout of the week. My gym's C2 firmware was out of date so please ignore the spm, my actual stroke rate is probably around 18-20spm. I've just updated the firmware so hopefully next workout is more accurate. I try to hit a split of around 2.28 but going this slow feels like I'm ingraining bad habits and not using my legs enough. Any advice for going slower whilst maintaining 20spm?

Thanks everyone and hope we all achieve our goals this year

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	 HR
38:34.6	8,000m	2:24.6	116	697	28	163
2:20.0	500m	2:20.0	128	738	25	150
2:18.7	500m	2:18.7	131	751	29	158
2:24.9	500m	2:24.9	115	695	26	159
2:20.8	500m	2:20.8	125	731	24	159
2:22.2	500m	2:22.2	122	718	28	163
2:23.5	500m	2:23.5	118	707	22	162
2:24.9	500m	2:24.9	115	695	35	163
2:25.3	500m	2:25.3	114	692	28	166
2:28.2	500m	2:28.2	108	670	26	163
2:26.8	500m	2:26.8	111	680	32	167
2:27.5	500m	2:27.5	109	675	34	167
2:29.8	500m	2:29.8	104	658	25	166
2:27.4	500m	2:27.4	109	676	28	164
2:29.4	500m	2:29.4	105	661	33	168
2:27.2	500m	2:27.2	110	677	24	171
2:17.9	500m	2:17.9	133	759	31	176

[Dangerscouse]

But I am of course interested in seeing progress. And when I see people rowing SS at ~2:05 with a HR of ~120, I start to wonder if I'll ever get somewhere close to that point when I'm now at ~2:20 with a HR of ~140? Even when I stick to a consistent routine, this seems completely out of reach. And as I said, it's not like I'm a complete unhealthy, overweighted sports noobie. I also wouldn't expect a big jump due to noobie gains anymore, as I'm already 12 weeks on the rower.

I'm just curious why my base fitness seems so bad and where I could get. Oh and while we're at it: I was doing a 2k a month ago and ended at 7:48. I know it's a big jump but would you think it's realistic to make it to a sub7 one day? If yes, how long would that probably take?

And one last thing: you recommended to go up to 20 spm. Whats the point in that compared to 18 spm?

Don't lose sight of the fact that you might be more suited to faster / shorter types of sports. Physiology and genetics matter, so you might be more fast twitch dominant, so endurance is harder to make progress on.

You've been rowing for 12 weeks, which is a very short period of time. It's a common issue for someone who is generally fit & active to be more impatient on the rower. It hurts the ego to go from really competent, maybe even advanced, at other sports to a beginner at rowing.

I've not got much historic data for my HR for steady sessions, mainly as I didn't start using it regularly until about two years ago, but my HR was circa 130 for a 2:05 session back then. Also IIRC, Buchan Cameron, a former GB rower, mentioned how his UT2 was circa 2:02 to start with but it's probably more like 1:48 now.

It takes a lot of time for it to reduce, but I'd also add that even though mine is circa 120 for that pace, I've seen plenty of people with higher a HR that are still quicker than me overall. It's not something that wholly dictates your ability, and I've failed quite a lot of sessions when my HR is still only at circa 90%. I'd also like to add that I've been rowing, on and off, for almost 23 years.

Mitchell has covered the stroke rate question. I personally find r18, at a faster pace, is a harder effort than r20 or r22, so it's finding what suits you, and your HR may drop slightly an increase in stroke rate.

Sub 7 is the gold standard for a reason: it's hard, and not everyone will be able to do it. Keep focused on smaller bite sized chunks, and when you can relatively comfortably reach 7:30, or maybe even closer to 7:20, then you're in the right place to start considering sub 7, but it's still a lot of effort.

[RayOfSunshine]

BPP 15.1 - 10k
target was for a SB... 1st 8k at 2:17 capped at 40spm, then fast last 2k. I felt good from the start so set my sights on breaking 45min (my goal for the BPP in general). I just looked at my history and I actually did a 42:52.7 on April 10, 2020. I'm 40 pounds heavier now, have had 4 procedures, and been through covid (documented) twice. The good news is I have a PB to shoot for next season. The ultimate goal will be a sub 40 10k on the ski.. and, my dream goal will continue to be a sub7 2k on the rower as a LWT.