8000m / 30min still (physically) possible?

[Bow]

I'm 40 years old, 171 cm tall and weigh 75 kg. Would describe myself as a crossfitter, strength and endurance in harmony, the last year just a little lazier with 2x/week training. I rowed in my youth at state level (that's why I'm very familiar with the technique).

In my youth my PB was ~7600m @65kg body weight - now I have the fixed idea of ​​8000m / 30min. I know that's a lot, but is it (still) realistically achievable?

A few days ago, for the first time in years, I seriously went for an Ergo 5000m/ 21:30 (at around 80%).
Thanks for the input

[jamesg]

8k/30 is about 250W, so you'll need to pull a 10W stroke at rate 25 for the duration. At least it's easy to see how to train for that; much less actually do it.

A few medium short intervals at that level should indicate the amount of work needed.

See https://log.concept2.com/rankings/2023/ ... 9&weight=L

You'd be in the top ten.

[MPx]

Welcome. At just 40 yo you are still in the sweet spot rowing/erging and should "easily" manage to set lifetime PBs across the range of pieces including getting an 8k 30 mins. Of course "easily" is a relative term. It will be hard work and unlikely to happen on just 2 sessions per week. Reset to maybe 5 sessions and 50k+ per week and you'll do it "easily". Note I never managed it! Best of luck.

[Sakly]

Hi, I am a bit taller, 177cm @78kg, 42 years, new on the erg from January, managed 8019m on my first serious 30r20. Recent unrestricted 30min was near to 8300, so yes, you should absolutely be able to get that level.

[Bow]

yes, a few centimeters of height difference used to be worlds when rowing. in youth on the water still compensable through strength and technique. That's why I was unsure whether it was even possible to achieve this.

What could the training look like? Training will not be possible 5x a week (12-13h shift work). More in the direction of 3-4, although there should probably be 1x in a "hotel room". Home Fully equipped CrossFit home gym is available . And in what timeframe could that be? years ?

oh and although at my height I should prefer higher spm I've always preferred the 22-24 range
The 5k was at 22

[Dangerscouse]

I'd say it is possible, but I can't say if it's probable. You sound like you've got a good basis of fitness, but I'd also assume you need to increase the stroke rate. R22 is really low and will be a lot more taxing than r26+, so you may be losing some 'free' speed.

Follow the Pete Plan for a good example of sessions, and I think he does a 5k plan, which will be ideal

[Bow]

yeah spm would bei the key (in short races no problem, but in long rows - eg 6km test i like the slow^^)

today 30r20 (firsttime, never heard about it before this forum) 30:00.0 6,807m 2:12.2 W151 Cal821 SPM20 HR156
again around 80% max (last 7Min above lactate threshold, last minute all out "empty the tank")

[Sakly]

yeah spm would bei the key (in short races no problem, but in long rows - eg 6km test i like the slow^^)

today 30r20 (firsttime, never heard about it before this forum) 30:00.0 6,807m 2:12.2 W151 Cal821 SPM20 HR156
again around 80% max (last 7Min above lactate threshold, last minute all out "empty the tank")

Spm in TTs must be much higher as you cannot rely on strength only. And in TTs my working level is definitely above 80%, so I assume you lose some meters there as well.
For reference, my 5k PB was started at 165 finished at 180bpm HR (my max is 185, seen in the previous 5k PB attempt ), at rate 32 - I know this is a very high rate for a 5k. Same applies for the 30min at rate 30.
My 30r20 shows the same heart rates, but less meters as strength alone cannot get you to the maximum possible meters. But the 30r20 shows you what your current strength level of your stroke is and how long it is sustainable for you.

[Bow]

"eg 6km test" was on water - and there is another component - the glide (dont know what its called in english, but i think you can imagine what i mean) on water which is essential technique for rowing. So on the Concept2 is not usefull to "go slow"

[Bow]

For reference, my 5k PB was started at 165 finished at 180bpm HR

whats your lactat threshold? i know have to improve my anaerob capacity - because my garmin says my threshold is at 161 (tested in running).

[Sakly]

For reference, my 5k PB was started at 165 finished at 180bpm HR

whats your lactat threshold? i know have to improve my anaerob capacity - because my garmin says my threshold is at 161 (tested in running).

Really, I have no idea
I know my body well and so I know that I can work on a level of 160-170 for 60min without any issues and go for a sprint in the end. After the 30min TT I was exhausted, but not destroyed. I could easily get breath and get off the rower, the day after not really bad, could train in the gym as usual.

[Bow]

Quick Update - so im following the pete plan now in the 3 week cycling ("1 Week" is mostly 1-2Weeks in real time ).
this week the fourth cycle week 1 (Start December 29).
Did almost every Session like the Pete Plan prescribes. The last cycle switche the long steady sessions a bit up to crossfit style (rowing and strength combined) but not anaerob or i skipped it completely if the "garmin" training analysis says "anaerob to less".

5k "hard distance" goes up (and everytime a bit left in the tank - so a little bit faster possible):
2:08.5 (HR 156)
2:04.2 (HR 158)
2:02.4 (HR 155)
today 6k 2:03.5 (HR 157)
stroke rates 25-28 - getting familiar with higher rates finally. but there is work to do for the goal - its a long way to go... if i see that i need to go 1:52 for 30Min to get the 8000m...^^

but its cool to see the improvement.

[iain]

Great improvement, although if you have the technique off pat, I fear an 8k is a long term goal, 7.5k looks readily achievable 'though. What was the single HR quoted? I wouldn't expect rowing HRmax to be significantly lower than running, so if you are averaging less than threshold you need to become acquainted with the pain cave to hit your potential!I can maintain above threshold for most of a 30'. You do need to learn to increase the work in each stroke as well as the stroke rate.That last pace is between 6.8 & 7.6 WMin (depending where you were in your 25-28SPM range. Even at 30SPM you would need 8.2WMin work per stroke to hit 8k so a significantly stronger stroke.

Best of luck with the continued improvement.

- IAin

[Bow]

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
24:42.3 6,000m 2:03.5 186 939 26 157
4:00.8 1,000m 2:00.4 201 990 26 143
4:05.3 1,000m 2:02.6 190 952 26 155
4:06.0 1,000m 2:03.0 188 947 26 160
4:08.4 1,000m 2:04.2 183 928 27 159
4:11.7 1,000m 2:05.8 176 904 27 162
4:10.2 1,000m 2:05.1 179 915 27 168
the 6k yesterday - for HR example - no warmup just row^^ - so its the average HR. Starting a little too fast, but it was no time trial, so dont go all out and just safe the split in late

treshold should be around 161 - and yes the pain cave ist the key^^


Your UT2 band is a heart rate of 117 bpm to 137 bpm with a mean of 127 bpm.
Your UT1 band is a heart rate of 138 bpm to 149 bpm with a mean of 143 bpm.
Your AT band is a heart rate of 150 bpm to 156 bpm with a mean of 153 bpm.
Your TR band is a heart rate of 157 bpm to 169 bpm with a mean of 163 bpm.
Your AN band is a heart rate of 170 bpm to 175 bpm with a mean of 172 bpm.
Your 70% heart rate is 137 bpm.
Your 85% heart rate is 156 bpm.

min 47 max around 175
(https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... calculator)

Summer will be no fun, because of the heat in the room... maybe putting the rower on the terrace, but then the neighbors have fun (or no fun^^)

[Quitsa Strider]

I’m in an adjacent boat to you, @Bow, in that I’m a 47 year old former collegiate varsity lightweight (6’/183cm; 165lbs/75kg) who had last touched a 30’ 8K more than 8 years ago. I’ve maintained a functional baseline of fitness since then though hadn’t chased erg PB’s in almost a decade.

Most years I’ve attempted the 200K C2 holiday challenge and not much more. I’ve been an erg data devotee having tracked every piece I’ve pulled back to 2008 giving me a wealth of data on how fitness builds across seasons even as consistency hasn’t been my friend.

September 2022 I got back on the erg and started tracking performance data and building fitness, again! My baseline piece that I’ve pulled for years is a 5k and usually can crack sub 20’ (203 watt average) when untrained and that was where I started back in September.

I highly recommend shifting your thinking from 500 meter splits to wattage in pursuit of 8k in 30’ as learning how to pace the piece is critical and the inverse cube law for how time and distance are calculated on an erg cause small pace increases to require larger power outputs.

To that end, an 8000 meter+ piece in 30 minutes requires maintaining an average of 246 watts. Your last 6k was at an average of 186 watts so you can see how you’ll need to train towards a 33% increase in power in a piece roughly 20% longer than that 6k. I’d recommend testing weekly pieces that you are comfortable with aiming to build ~2% power each week. So, now that you know you can pull a 186 watt average 6k, next week aim for a 190 watt+ 6k.

Mix it up with shorter interval work (Work out of the Day on the C2 app has a good mix) along with longer pieces (10k, hour of power, half marathon) and begin to learn what wattage you can sustain for each duration. Then, once you’ve got that baseline - push the wattage numbers up ~2% week over week as well.

Pacing across each piece will also be critical to hit your goal. Negative splits (or positive wattage increase) across any piece is the most metabolically efficient pacing strategy so use your baseline power targets to improve efficiency. For example, when you aim to hit 190 watt average for a 6k, build that piece by averaging 188 watts for the first 1200 meters, 189 watts for the next 1200, 190 watts, then 191 watts, and a controlled ramp for the last 1200 above 191 watts. If you build the piece that way you’ll train yourself to balance right on the edge of what’s possible each week. Within each piece big jumps in power are metabolically expensive so see how tightly you can pace to target to get the most out of each piece.

Just today I pulled an averaged 247 watts for 30 minutes finishing with 8016 meters - 13th in the world this year in our age bracket. https://log.concept2.com/rankings/2023/ ... ower=rower. Your goal is achievable!

I’m happy to further answer specific questions on your path to 8k - good luck!

-Ethan