how to row slower

[Wilpert]

OK, I accept that I already row quite slowly, Im 60 yo male and only 65kg and at 5'5" Im not set to break any recods but I kind of compete against myself and use the C" to keep me in shape. So far so good it seems to be working well.

Anyway, I will be doing a HM soon and then build up to a full M.

My problem is that I cant seem to produce an efficient stoke when I ease off on the effort.

To expand on this, what i mean is, let us say i would row a 10k using a SR of 25 spm and this will give me circa 2:15 per 500mts.
So to slow down and not burn out, i would want to keep the same SR but slow it down to circa 2:22 per 500 mts.... then even slower for my Marathon which will be down the line sometime.

problem i have is that as soon as I ease off the effort, i end up with a really uneven curve, its pretty up and down and it just doesn't seem smooth at all.
I tried reducing damper setting but I am already using a low setting of around level 3, so if i go lower it will seem too weak.

Any suggestions please, fwiw i have even tried rowing in a tired state, i.e. returning after a hard session and seeing how this helps but i end up going back to my faster pace again.

I do hope this makes some sense.

[Wilpert]

OK, I accept that I already row quite slowly, Im 60 yo male and only 65kg and at 5'5" Im not set to break any recods but I kind of compete against myself and use the C2 to keep me in shape. So far so good it seems to be working well.

Anyway, I will be doing a HM soon and then build up to a full M.

My problem is that I cant seem to produce an efficient stoke when I ease off on the effort.

To expand on this, what i mean is, let us say i would row a 10k using a SR of 25 spm and this will give me circa 2:15 per 500mts.
So to slow down and not burn out, i would want to keep the same SR but slow it down to circa 2:22 per 500 mts.... then even slower for my Marathon which will be down the line sometime.

problem i have is that as soon as I ease off the effort, i end up with a really uneven curve, its pretty up and down and it just doesn't seem smooth at all.
I tried reducing damper setting but I am already using a low setting of around level 3, so if i go lower it will seem too weak.

Any suggestions please, fwiw i have even tried rowing in a tired state, i.e. returning after a hard session and seeing how this helps but i end up going back to my faster pace again.

I do hope this makes some sense.

[JaapvanE]

To expand on this, what i mean is, let us say i would row a 10k using a SR of 25 spm and this will give me circa 2:15 per 500mts.
So to slow down and not burn out, i would want to keep the same SR but slow it down to circa 2:22 per 500 mts.... then even slower for my Marathon which will be down the line sometime.

problem i have is that as soon as I ease off the effort, i end up with a really uneven curve, its pretty up and down and it just doesn't seem smooth at all.

It takes some time to refind your rythm, it took me over a month to get to a steady stroke on a lower dragfactor and low SPM (injury...)

[Wilpert]

so do i need to lower the damper setting, it is already low at around 3, which seems comfortable to me, i seem to produce my best times rowing at around 20 - 22 spm on that setting but i am trying to "retrain" myself to work at a slightly higher SR but without working too hard, so i can sustain it for 3:30 mins

[MPx]

I suspect you're over thinking this. Efficiency is of course important and it sounds like you're dialling it in well if you can do your 2:15 pace steady for 10k with a consistent curve. To go slower, you just need to work less hard. There's generally two ways:
- One school of thought is keep your strong stroke and do it less often (ie reduce rate). This appears to be what you are after as you seem to want to see the same force curve.
- The other way is to do a weaker stroke at the same rate. This is how many of us, including me, slow down. As an (admittedly extreme) example one of my regular steady state rows is an 8k done enitrely at 20spm. For the first 2 mins I'm stroking at my max at r20 (just under 1:45) then I slow to 2:08 for 4 mins, then 2:07 for 4 mins, etc down to 2:02 until 2 mins to go when I relax to ~2:15 split as a cool down. As I said, all done at 20 spm, total time 33:03.3, avg 2:03.9 - same DF as all of my other training - I never change it except for sprint TTs. I've never looked at the force curve during that piece so it doesn't bother me. The reason for it is simply that I hate sawing away at steady state and this provides something to concentrate on for half an hour and the time flies by and my HR peaks at around my UT1 cap which is the training effect I'm after. But the point here is that its really very easy to change pace just by the amount of effort put into each stroke. If I were to do a HM or similar then of course its more efficient to go steady paced all through - but since I hate doing that they are very rare events!

[p_b82]

I found the easiest way to reduce the effort was to slow down the leg drive - which takes the effort out the first part of the stroke - and then pull less hard at the finish with the arms - to keep the curve in the "right" shape at a lower amplitude.

I have played around a bit with slowing the recovery too - which I feel then feeds more easily into the former, as your muscles get a bit more used to moving less explosively.

After a bit, I found that I could up the stroke rate again, but reduce the leg effort to rate at 24-26, as I had learnt what it "felt" like at lower intensity and could do so more consistently. I have found that I can rate higher with the same power for a lower Hr which for me makes pacing/completing the longer efforts easier.

[JaapvanE]

so do i need to lower the damper setting, it is already low at around 3, which seems comfortable to me, i seem to produce my best times rowing at around 20 - 22 spm on that setting but i am trying to "retrain" myself to work at a slightly higher SR but without working too hard, so i can sustain it for 3:30 mins

You don't have to change your damper, but as MPx and I suggested either your stroke should get weaker or your SPM has to go down. Regardless of your approach taken, you need to find your rhythm again to make it a nice smooth movement. That is quite normal. You have to relearn pacing yourself for that new speed and become a two-trick pony instead of a one-trick pony (whatever your trick is: power or SPM).

[Dangerscouse]

I agree with all of the above. I wouldn't be too worried about force curve if you want to slow down, as that's probably something that will happen with practice.

Up until fairly recently I used to weaken my stroke to go slower, and that worked well for me. Nowadays I generally lower the stroke rate to lower the power, and as Jaapvan says, I've become a two trick pony. I don't think that there's enough to completely recommend one or the other, it's just a matter of preference, but I naturally feel most comfortable at a higher spm.

Don't confuse drag factor as being a proxy for stroke strength too. I've seen people row very fast at circa 100df so it's more about what feels best for you.

[Wilpert]

thanks all, no doubt some good and varied advice there.

my only slight reservation, that when i row slower say 20 spm, i seem to go faster but i feel that i am relying more on strength, which is not really sustainable over longer distances.

Im looking for the rowers equivalent of what I used to do when i was training for a running marathon and i would drop my pace to a fair bit below race day pace and go out for 2+ hours training.
If i do that on the C2, I will be rowing longer pieces at around 2:45 pace.

Or do I ditch the running/rowing comparison and just get used to rowing at race day pace, so keep it where I would be come the event?

[nick rockliff]

thanks all, no doubt some good and varied advice there.

my only slight reservation, that when i row slower say 20 spm, i seem to go faster but i feel that i am relying more on strength, which is not really sustainable over longer distances.

Im looking for the rowers equivalent of what I used to do when i was training for a running marathon and i would drop my pace to a fair bit below race day pace and go out for 2+ hours training.
If i do that on the C2, I will be rowing longer pieces at around 2:45 pace.

Or do I ditch the running/rowing comparison and just get used to rowing at race day pace, so keep it where I would be come the event?

Rowing at r20 is not rowing slower, its rating lower. If you maintain pace at a lower rate it will be harder.

To row slower, put less effort into each stroke. Simple as that.

[Sakly]

Longer sessions are always at slower pace, this is clear to everyone I think.
For me it is always a combination of reducing spm AND stroke power (and I think this is also always the case for everyone). Best example is a 30r20 PB attempt compared to a 30r20 steady state. Both have exact same amount of strokes, but the stroke power is much higher in the PB attempt compared to steady state.
The 30r20 shows your strongest stroke you can handle over a solid amount of time. If you now go for different TT distances at much higher rates, say 30, then you will not be able to provide the same stroke power as trained in 30r20 PB, but still above your 30r20 steady state. So this shows the mixing of reducing stroke power and upping rate for resulting pace.
Individual preferences in terms of cv system and strength abilities will shift you more to one of both sides. I like to rate a bit higher and reduce stroke power as this draines me less. Others do it vice versa.

[jamesg]

My problem is that I can't seem to produce an efficient stroke when I ease off on the effort.

But that's exactly what you need to do. It's called learning to row. Don't even think about going long distances. 100, 200 meters, 10, 20 strokes, one ot two minutes will be fine to start with.

Here you can see how it's done:
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

Try to pull one good stroke: long and hard. Then pull another. But not right now, you can wait as long as you like, boats don't stop.

[Tsnor]

thanks all, no doubt some good and varied advice there.

my only slight reservation, that when i row slower say 20 spm, i seem to go faster but i feel that i am relying more on strength, which is not really sustainable over longer distances.

99% of the way there.

As said above, back off the Stroke rate. There's a technique for this.

Keep everything about current your stroke the same except SLOW THE SLIDE during recovery. This will keep the force per stroke the same (because you are doing exactly the same drive, same force curve shape, etc.) and slow the stroke rate (because the longer slide time on the recovery puts more time between strokes.)

You *DO NOT* want to reduce stroke rate by uniformly changing all parts of your stroke. Focus all your "slowing" on the slide.

Once you get comfortable with how your pace and stroke feel with that slow slide you can mix/match "faster/slower hands at the finish" and "drive speed" with "recovery slide speed", but for now do all your adjustments with recovery slide speed. That's the big lever.

Bonus points if you can use the slow slide speed to fine tune your stroke -- get the feeling of arms away done before your hips swing your back over. Keeping the knees down until your hip swing is complete and you feel stretch in the back of your legs. Holding the same back/shoulder/arm shape from hip swing until you are into your drive. Finding this feeling is easier at low stroke rates. Some coaches take you as low at 12 SPM just to reinforce separation of stroke components.

p.s. DONT look at your splits when reducing stroke rate. They will get worse at lower rates. Ignore this, just get control of the stroke rate.

[nick rockliff]

thanks all, no doubt some good and varied advice there.

my only slight reservation, that when i row slower say 20 spm, i seem to go faster but i feel that i am relying more on strength, which is not really sustainable over longer distances.

99% of the way there.

As said above, back off the Stroke rate. There's a technique for this.

Keep everything about current your stroke the same except SLOW THE SLIDE during recovery. This will keep the force per stroke the same (because you are doing exactly the same drive, same force curve shape, etc.) and slow the stroke rate (because the longer slide time on the recovery puts more time between strokes.)

You *DO NOT* want to reduce stroke rate by uniformly changing all parts of your stroke. Focus all your "slowing" on the slide.

Once you get comfortable with how your pace and stroke feel with that slow slide you can mix/match "faster/slower hands at the finish" and "drive speed" with "recovery slide speed", but for now do all your adjustments with recovery slide speed. That's the big lever.

Bonus points if you can use the slow slide speed to fine tune your stroke -- get the feeling of arms away done before your hips swing your back over. Keeping the knees down until your hip swing is complete and you feel stretch in the back of your legs. Holding the same back/shoulder/arm shape from hip swing until you are into your drive. Finding this feeling is easier at low stroke rates. Some coaches take you as low at 12 SPM just to reinforce separation of stroke components.

p.s. DONT look at your splits when reducing stroke rate. They will get worse at lower rates. Ignore this, just get control of the stroke rate.

The OP doesn't want to lower the rate, he wants to lower the pace at the same rate.

[Tsnor]

The OP doesn't want to lower the rate, he wants to lower the pace at the same rate.

Understand this is what he asked for

Anyway, I will be doing a HM soon and then build up to a full M.

My problem is that I cant seem to produce an efficient stoke when I ease off on the effort.

To expand on this, what i mean is, let us say i would row a 10k using a SR of 25 spm and this will give me circa 2:15 per 500mts.
So to slow down and not burn out, i would want to keep the same SR but slow it down to circa 2:22 per 500 mts.... then even slower for my Marathon which will be down the line sometime.

The right solution to this request is to reduce the stroke rate, not keep the same stroke rate. I thought that was settled earlier in the thread and the discussion had morphed to the best way to slow down the stroke rate. He'll also want to choose the right power level, but getting him on the path to controlling stroke rate seemed the next step.

Your approach to holding constant stroke rate while slowing the pace is the only one I know... do the drive less forcefully.

To row slower, put less effort into each stroke. Simple as that.