Help Noob with Concept 2 split

[amoslieber]

I'm here to see if it's possible/likely that my concept 2 has a problem or if I'm just awful with it. I'm guessing the latter but wanted to consult you folks.


I've been doing a lot of research on the concept 2. Reading and watching videos on correct form and the importance of using the legs on the catch. I'm quite out of shape with little upper body strength and about 15 lbs over my ideal weight. I'm weak but not standard deviations outside the norm.

So basically my problem is no matter how hard I try I cannot get my split rate below 1:45/500m. I'm not talking about sustaining that level, I mean period. Sustaining for any period over like 20 seconds I'm at like 2:00/500m . And at a 5k I'm at like 2:20/500m. I recently watched a competitive rower online and within 3 strokes he had a split of 1:20/500m with total ease.

My question is could form and strength really give me such a plateau that even with all my might I can't exceed 1:45/500m within 5-10 strokes?

[Sakly]

Hi, yes it can.
The ability to lower the pace to stunning times is mostly depending on max strength in combination with explosiveness, good technique and form.
1:45 is ~300W, no joke at all. 1:30 already 480W, 1:22 635W. You need a proper stroke AND strength to get there.
I am very fit and train much, I hardly reach numbers below 1:30.

[MPx]

You don't give much away in terms of your physique. Erging is a sport where giants have an advantage. Its also the case that it takes some time to naturalize a good stroke, and you won't see ultra low pull numbers until you have nailed the stroke and improved strength. If you're a relative newbie and are not 183cm/6' ++ and less than 75kg/11.75st etc etc then you are going to have to be more and more exceptional for your physique in order to pull the numbers you've seen - but clearly some do. It can be a bit depressing comparing with others if you aspire to getting to the top of the tree unless you happen to be an exceptional athlete. But with more realistic goals check out the C2 rankings for your Age/weight/sex and you can see what others are achiving. https://log.concept2.com/rankings It can be motivating even if starting pretty far down to monitor progress - say targetting getting up to the 50th percentile or whatever for a given piece. I remember trying for top 1/3rd; then top 1/4; then first page (top 50); now I target top 10% or better across the board. All good fun! Just make sure you enjoy trying for whatever goal you set or you wont do it.

[MartinSH4321]

As Mike already said height and strength matter a lot.
As you're a noob my first guess would be that it's technique and not the C2. It takes some time (for most people) to learn good rowing technique, and sprinting needs another technique than "normal" rowing.
What was your highest stroke rate you could see? Even experienced rowers can have problems to rate high (40+), and the fastest sprinters often rate around 60 for an all out 100m.
If I were you I wouldn't worry too much about splits at the moment, learn the technique and let your muscles adapt, then you'll get faster and faster without risking an injury (max sprints without proper technique and muscles that can handle the forces can end painful).

[p_b82]

I'm also a n00b at rowing and comparing oneself to a competitor online is unlikely to help when just starting out.

My first row, my max pace was 2:16@r27 for ~4mins - I was done at that point.

I've been erging now for 5 months, and I just completed a 5k, where my average pace was 2:16 for the 5k.

So far the peak sprint split I've seen myself is 1:50@r30 - admittedly I've never tried it at peak freshness, so maybe there's a 1:45 in me currently If I were to try, but I've a dodgy back (thus I'm careful about the max 'all out' effort and probably am holding back a bit)

My pace is around ~15th percentile for my age bracket for 5k->HM - I'm not doing any specific training for any specific distance & am not doing any additional weights; so not even close to "average" in the rankings - but if I were to compare myself to those above average or 10%er's I'd be soon very demoralised!

[jamesg]

My question is could form and strength really give me such a plateau that even with all my might I can't exceed 1:45/500m within 5-10 strokes? I'm here to see if it's possible/likely that my concept 2 has a problem

Your erg certainly has a problem. It has a big heavy flywheel that is very tough to accelerate, or even move. So if you want to move it, and maybe keep it moving, you'll have to learn how and work very hard. Could help if you use a low drag factor and learn to pull a long fast stroke with the legs.

1:45 is 300W, but when we row we deliver power during the pull only. So your peak power might be around 900W; could do better, that's only a little more than 1hp.

NB the erg has an even worse problem: to go even only 10% faster, we have to deliver 30% more power to the handle. Keep at it.

[Dangerscouse]

I'm here to see if it's possible/likely that my concept 2 has a problem or if I'm just awful with it. I'm guessing the latter but wanted to consult you folks.


I've been doing a lot of research on the concept 2. Reading and watching videos on correct form and the importance of using the legs on the catch. I'm quite out of shape with little upper body strength and about 15 lbs over my ideal weight. I'm weak but not standard deviations outside the norm.

So basically my problem is no matter how hard I try I cannot get my split rate below 1:45/500m. I'm not talking about sustaining that level, I mean period. Sustaining for any period over like 20 seconds I'm at like 2:00/500m . And at a 5k I'm at like 2:20/500m. I recently watched a competitive rower online and within 3 strokes he had a split of 1:20/500m with total ease.

My question is could form and strength really give me such a plateau that even with all my might I can't exceed 1:45/500m within 5-10 strokes?

Weakness is a relative term. You don't need to be a weight lifter to be good at rowing, but you do need a certain amount of strength to produce sufficient power so there is a question mark there regarding your strength, height and weight as mentioned above, as well as age, which isn't mentioned.

What you will undoubtedly find is that the more you train, the faster you'll get, and it's a common adage that your initial PBs will be your steady training pace given enough time and effort.

I'm not sure if you could reach 1:45 pace, but assume everything is possible until you prove it isn't

[mitchel674]

These threads always crack me up. I doubt we will hear from the OP again, but this part of their post had me chuckling "I'm quite out of shape with little upper body strength and about 15 lbs over my ideal weight.".

Even so, after "doing a lot of research", this beginner wants to sit on the rowerg and pull elite numbers.

Clearly the machine must be broken. Does this same person walk into the gym and complain to management that the weights are broken since he cannot bench press 300lbs?

[JaapvanE]

Clearly the machine must be broken. Does this same person walk into the gym and complain to management that the weights are broken since he cannot bench press 300lbs?

I think the issue is that people expect that a rower behaves like these weights. The weights behave linear: 250 is tough, 260 will be tougher, 270 is sometimes possible, 280 is nearly impossible, 290 can be done once, and 300 is impossible. A rower is different as cube law gets in the way: the jump from 2:00 to 1:45 is a lot easier than from 1:45 to 1:30. That doesn't compute for most users.

[mitchel674]

Clearly the machine must be broken. Does this same person walk into the gym and complain to management that the weights are broken since he cannot bench press 300lbs?

I think the issue is that people expect that a rower behaves like these weights. The weights behave linear: 250 is tough, 260 will be tougher, 270 is sometimes possible, 280 is nearly impossible, 290 can be done once, and 300 is impossible. A rower is different as cube law gets in the way: the jump from 2:00 to 1:45 is a lot easier than from 1:45 to 1:30. That doesn't compute for most users.

Great point.

Most newbies also do not understand that rowing is surprisingly technical. It can look so easy to the untrained eye, but those flaws in the rowing stroke all leak energy and efficiency.

[Dangerscouse]

I think the issue is that people expect that a rower behaves like these weights. The weights behave linear: 250 is tough, 260 will be tougher, 270 is sometimes possible, 280 is nearly impossible, 290 can be done once, and 300 is impossible. A rower is different as cube law gets in the way: the jump from 2:00 to 1:45 is a lot easier than from 1:45 to 1:30. That doesn't compute for most users.

Yeah great point. It doesn't compute naturally for me, but I'm not a scientist, or scientifically minded.