HR training zone question

[ZLoaf]

I'm a 40M heavyweight. I rowed on the water 20 plus years ago and have recently put in 1 million meters on the rower. I have found using HR calcuations for UT2, UT1, etc. to be useful for the rower and do an hour set at low stroke rate no problem.

I recently bought the Skierg and cannot control my heart rate. I was doing 3min x 1 min rest at a SR of 32 with a split of ~2:38 (I do my hour on the rower at a 2:24-:2:28 depending on how my body and tendons feel), yet my HR was in the 160's. On the rower I would be at a comfy 140-142 below my UT2 max of 145 bpm. Is this normal? If I want to do zone 2 training, then I'm going to feel like I'm barely moving? Should I be going lighter to get into Zone 2 (HR below 135) and do longer pieces? My goal is not speed or sprinting as I have bilateral tendonopathy that get aggravated with to many sprints but seem to be fine with long cardio training.

[jamesg]

It's gravity. If there's vertical body mass movement, this doubles the work done. You lift yourself, and then put work into the straps going down. This work is not free, you have to use muscle.

If you can only double pole on the skierg, then you might have vertical cg travel upwards per stroke (all guesses) 0.2m, mass 80kg, rate 32. This power is 0.2*80g*32/60 = 85W.

Then you'd do the same amount of work going down, putting this into the straps. So total Power around 170W.

Your 2:24-28 on the Rowerg is around 110W. If you can row at 170W, try it. You may well see the same physiology as in skiing.

Uphill skiing is done skating or alternating, both hard enough as is. Rarely double poling.

[Dangerscouse]

I'm a 40M heavyweight. I rowed on the water 20 plus years ago and have recently put in 1 million meters on the rower. I have found using HR calcuations for UT2, UT1, etc. to be useful for the rower and do an hour set at low stroke rate no problem.

I recently bought the Skierg and cannot control my heart rate. I was doing 3min x 1 min rest at a SR of 32 with a split of ~2:38 (I do my hour on the rower at a 2:24-:2:28 depending on how my body and tendons feel), yet my HR was in the 160's. On the rower I would be at a comfy 140-142 below my UT2 max of 145 bpm. Is this normal? If I want to do zone 2 training, then I'm going to feel like I'm barely moving? Should I be going lighter to get into Zone 2 (HR below 135) and do longer pieces? My goal is not speed or sprinting as I have bilateral tendonopathy that get aggravated with to many sprints but seem to be fine with long cardio training.

I have done very little skierging, but as it's a different plane of motion and uses different muscles to rowing, I'm not surprised that it's more of an effort.

I certainly was for me when I've done it, but my pace dropped fairly quickly as I adapted to the effort, so IMO, I'd drop the pace as you'll soon be able to speed up.

[winniewinser]

I use both row and ski.....the latter is generally a much harder machine on the body imho.

But now I am used to them both I can hit the same pace and HR for a sub 75% MHR session. I suspect it will take some time to adapt to the different muscles being used.

In general when going all out I am around 7-10 splits slower on the Skierg mainly due to strength rather than fitness.

Also, what DF do you use on the Skierg.....lighter will be less impact on the body and 'should' lower the HR.

Ultimately if HR is the main target ignore the pace and go with that......ditch the pace ego (easier said than done)

[ZLoaf]

I've been using the skierg about 2-3x per week and the rower 2-3x week. I can still maintain a nice UT2 on the rower but even going "light" with lower drag factor on the skierg (2-2.5), I can't get my HR to drop below 155 even if I'm going very light (SPM 26ish, 3:15 split). I think I might just to put in more meters to just use it for sprints.

My main goal is general health and conditioning. I've picked up some random tendinopathies that make sustained sprint work impossible as they flare up and I'm out rehabing and resting but I can go in the zone 2-3 intensity for an hour plus on the rower at a SR of 18-22 without issue. I'm hoping to get there on the skierg as well so I can work the muscles the rower doesn't.

[ZLoaf]

It's gravity. If there's vertical body mass movement, this doubles the work done. You lift yourself, and then put work into the straps going down. This work is not free, you have to use muscle.

If you can only double pole on the skierg, then you might have vertical cg travel upwards per stroke (all guesses) 0.2m, mass 80kg, rate 32. This power is 0.2*80g*32/60 = 85W.

Then you'd do the same amount of work going down, putting this into the straps. So total Power around 170W.

Your 2:24-28 on the Rowerg is around 110W. If you can row at 170W, try it. You may well see the same physiology as in skiing.

Uphill skiing is done skating or alternating, both hard enough as is. Rarely double poling.

That makes some sense. You also nailed my wattage of about 110W sustained for long sets (60 min-90 min). I'm not fast and never have been but can pull poor numbers for a decent time.

[jamesg]

bilateral tendinopathy

This will be your main consideration no doubt. When exercising presumably you want to control forces but still get a training effect.

The rowerg having a horizontal slide, so small gravity effects, may make this easier for you to control than the skierg. On the latter there will be some vertical bodymass travel that could involve large but unknown forces, according to the style you use, single or double poling, and the extent of the action.

It's long time since I did any XC skiing. It was great fun.. going downhill.

[ZLoaf]

I double pull only. I am working my interval times up to see how my tendons and HR respond. My most recent exercise was 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, min set with 1 min rest in between which my tendons were fine with but my HR was in zone 4 the whole time even though "sprinting" wasn't my goal. I'll keep upping my time on it hoping my elbows are fine and my heart adjusts while still getting in UT1-2 time on the rower.

[Carl Watts]

Not sure about others but I think I would find the SkiErg pretty hard to control my HR, the RowErg is bad enough.

Moving to the Bike recently has been way better to control the zones, I can stay at 120 HR or below for periods of 40 minutes and still feel like I'm doing something.