Beginners question(s)?

[jamesg]

Can be seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ82RYIFLN8

[Willy.VdW]

Thanks for the link, all clear now!
In the mean time I stumbled upon another matter: flywheel settings.
The videos of Dark Horse Rowing and Training Tall seem to advocate opposite
strategies for finding the best personal flywheel setting. Until now, I follow the
advice often given for beginners, between 3 and 5, so I have set it to 4

[JaapvanE]

In the mean time I stumbled upon another matter: flywheel settings.
The videos of Dark Horse Rowing and Training Tall seem to advocate opposite
strategies for finding the best personal flywheel setting. Until now, I follow the
advice often given for beginners, between 3 and 5, so I have set it to 4

What is the contradiction in their advise?

[nick rockliff]

Thanks for the link, all clear now!
In the mean time I stumbled upon another matter: flywheel settings.
The videos of Dark Horse Rowing and Training Tall seem to advocate opposite
strategies for finding the best personal flywheel setting. Until now, I follow the
advice often given for beginners, between 3 and 5, so I have set it to 4

Don't go by the damper setting, go by drag factor and set it around 120 and take it from there. You can check your drag factor on the PM

[Willy.VdW]

In the mean time I stumbled upon another matter: flywheel settings.
The videos of Dark Horse Rowing and Training Tall seem to advocate opposite
strategies for finding the best personal flywheel setting. Until now, I follow the
advice often given for beginners, between 3 and 5, so I have set it to 4

What is the contradiction in their advise?

From this video, I understand that Dark Horse Rowing says that the best damper
setting to start from depends on the kind of athlete you are:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4COPlfJfnuA
wheras Training Tall says that it is better to start (or stay) with a low(er) damper setting.

[Willy.VdW]

Don't go by the damper setting, go by drag factor and set it around 120 and take it from there. You can check your drag factor on the PM

I did that today, 4 gives a drag factor a bit above 100, 5 gives about 120.
So I did a workout of 30 minutes with a damper setting of 5.
Managed to row 5KKm, there may have been some tailwind
In my defense, it included some arms-only, arms+body, then
plus partial knees bent before continuing with full strokes.
I also discovered a great PM display, the one with the big figures.
It allowes me to row without glasses and still see what's going on!

[nick rockliff]

Don't go by the damper setting, go by drag factor and set it around 120 and take it from there. You can check your drag factor on the PM

I did that today, 4 gives a drag factor a bit above 100, 5 gives about 120.
So I did a workout of 30 minutes with a damper setting of 5.
Managed to row 5KKm, there may have been some tailwind
In my defense, it included some arms-only, arms+body, then
plus partial knees bent before continuing with full strokes.
I also discovered a great PM display, the one with the big figures.
It allowes me to row without glasses and still see what's going on!

Now you have that info, you can fine tune to suit you. If you use another machine, you will be able to set the drag factor rather than go by damper setting.

[jamesg]

workout 30 minutes -- damper 5 -- Managed to row 5k

Well done, 5k in 30 minutes is Pace 3:00 and about 60 Watts.

If you use Ergdata you can see, on the go, how you do it in terms of rating (spm) and stroke length and force.

A good combination might be rating 20, stroke length 60% of height, average force not more than 40% of weight (at nominal BMI 23). Ergdata shows force in Newton and 1kgf = 9.81N, so 30kgf is 300N.

What drag does is slow the flywheel when we are not pulling. A slow flywheel increases the time and force needed to pull a complete stroke, and you may not like that, depending on your height, strength and age. Starting to row with high DF is risky (injury) and can make it impossible to learn to row.

Currently I use DF90 or less and pull about 350N on weight 80-83kg, stroke length 120.

[JaapvanE]

A good combination might be rating 20, stroke length 60% of height, average force not more than 40% of weight (at nominal BMI 23).

Are these percentages rule of thumbs or is there some science behind it (not dismissing these numbers in any way, but I'd like to dive a bit deeper into it)?

[jamesg]

I do slightly more, about 64% height H and 42% weight, age 82, so empirical single sample rule of thumb for OAP beginners.

The theoretical power based on those numbers is H(0.6 x 0.4) x 23H² x g x 20 / 60 = W; which reduces to W = 18 H³.

1.6m > 75W
1.7m > 90W
1.8m > 105W.
1.9m > 125W

I believe our basic metabolic rate (2000 kCal/day?) corresponds to about 20 W external work. So these levels are 4 to 5 times BMR and should have some effect in due time.

[JaapvanE]

I do slightly more, about 64% height H and 42% weight, age 82, so empirical single sample rule of thumb for OAP beginners.

I hope when I reach that age, I'm still rowing, let alone reach those numbers.

[KeithT]

Others have already provided good advice but some good personal experience for you on the handle drop. When I first rowed I naturally kept the chain on a horizontal line. Then I developed a handle drop and was concerned about it but saw no difference in performance, in fact it was prob when I was at my best. Without trying I somehow went back to the horizontal chain. Anyway, I found that it doesn't seem to have too much impact but....don't do what I call the CrossFit special where you lower the handle and rest it on your thighs after each stroke - this does impact the row.

[Willy.VdW]

Today, I did 6422m/30min at 27s/min.
Am I right thinking that it would have been a better workout if I managed the same distance
with less s/m, reasoning that if I could apply a more powerful stroke, I would have to do less
strokes to cover the same distance.
I wonder what to aim for: cover more distance or apply more force, or perhaps both

[Sakly]

As you want to train a strong stroke which can be used at any rate, your last assumtion is right.
In low rate training you go for good technique and learn a strong stroke. In rows with faster rates you try to maintain the stroke and this leads to more output due to upped rate. Typically in high rate trainings (or PB attempts) you will not reach the same power output per stroke. Best to compare for that is looking at a 30r20 and a 30' without cap.

[RayOfSunshine]

From this video, I understand that Dark Horse Rowing says that the best damper
setting to start from depends on the kind of athlete you are:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4COPlfJfnuA

I appreciate you positing this video. It helped me so much when I started and I was looking for it to help a friend. My ego said "high drag factor", but my experience kept proving that lower was better (for me). It wasn't until I saw this video that I became comfortable with a lower DF.