Structured workouts?

[JobomimA]

Maybe this question has been covered over and over. If so my apologies. Otherwise:

I am new to rowing, currently doing a WOD a few times a week. I like rowing for it incorporates a lot more muscle-groups than cycling (my main sport, as you will), and since it is just an addition I have no specific goals other than get/stay fit.

During the winter I often use zwift with a cycling trainer (tacx neo) to do structured workouts, based on FTP (the power you could theoretically hold for an hour, based on a 20 minute test). So I just put on a dumb face, let the trainer control the resistance and just pedal until it’s all over. Nice.

Are there any ways to do structured workouts with a rowing machine, ideally with a training plan? (Concept 2 with pm5) I have been looking at training plans but maybe I am missing something very obvious, since pacing is not really mentioned there. The only thing occasionally advised is stroke rate, but how do I know I am working at a level that increases my fitness and not over- or undertraining?

[Tony Cook]

This was sort of covered here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=206106
Depends what you are training for - the link is for a best 2k. If you want a best marathon, or 1 minute then the structure would be different.
All structured plans I’ve seen need a baseline time, often 2k, and/or your personal heart rate zones.
Look up Beginner Pete Plan, see the C2 site, also Dark Horse Rowing and Training Tall have very useful row along videos on YouTube.

[rOw]

I think his problem is about pacing, not really about the workouts themselves?
As a runner, I'm used to defined paces : threshold, VO2max, tempo... Which I can determine from race or time trial. Best exemple : https://runsmartproject.com/calculator.
So I was a bit lost about rowing workouts. Because "80% of max effort" doesn't mean much to me. Max for 1'? 10'? 30'?
I found an Excel sheet based on your 2k time I think, that gives you paces for différent workout types. I have it on my PC but dont remember the source

[JobomimA]

I think his problem is about pacing, not really about the workouts themselves?
As a runner, I'm used to defined paces : threshold, VO2max, tempo... Which I can determine from race or time trial. Best exemple : https://runsmartproject.com/calculator.
So I was a bit lost about rowing workouts. Because "80% of max effort" doesn't mean much to me. Max for 1'? 10'? 30'?
I found an Excel sheet based on your 2k time I think, that gives you paces for différent workout types. I have it on my PC but dont remember the source

Thanks for both responses. I have seen numerous training plans so that is not really the problem in itself, but they hardly actually mention how hard an effort should be or feel. I can row along with dark horse videos on 20 sr like a breeze or die doing it.

The excel sounds good, if I know my max effort for a 500m, how would that translate to other distances or times? I think I am missing something because I don’t think everybody is just rowing along to their own liking, but I don’t know what to focus on: hr, watts, split times etc etc

[rOw]

I've just row a 5k TT, let me take a well deserved shower and I'll look for the Excel file

[rOw]

Here it is : the Reddit's file.
It's based on a 2k time trial and gives you the pace for the different usual workouts.

If not familiar with these, you can check Travis Gardner's YouTube channel.

I also found another interesting table, based on a 20' test : https://www.rowperfect.co.uk/rowing-pace-charts
But the paces are a little bit different, from cat. VI to cat. II.

[JobomimA]

Here it is : the Reddit's file.
It's based on a 2k time trial and gives you the pace for the different usual workouts.

If not familiar with these, you can check Travis Gardner's YouTube channel.

I also found another interesting table, based on a 20' test : https://www.rowperfect.co.uk/rowing-pace-charts
But the paces are a little bit different, from cat. VI to cat. II.

Thanks! Gonna look into it to have an idea of my theoretical times on other distances and the computed zones. I will look up some more training plans to see if they mention the zones in which intervals should be completed!

[jamesg]

since pacing is not really mentioned there. The only thing occasionally advised is stroke rate

Aerobic training is done at 18 - 24 and anaerobic at 28 and higher.

The Work per stroke (= Watts/Rating) is roughly the same at all ratings, which implies that drag, force and length also stay constant and that power as shown by the PM is roughly proportional to Rating. This is what lets us train for racing medium distance (2k to 5k) by doing both short and long pieces - adjust the rating, not the stroke.

The stroke can get very tough, so it's important to learn how to do it in order to be most effective and also avoid injury. The full force of both legs together goes through back shoulders and arms, about 200 times in a 2k race.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

Training power level depends on age and size, but will reach about 2W/kg at training rates. A 2k at international level is about 6 minutes, 500W, and a good amateur level is 300W, 7minutes.

The 2k Olympic distance requires a significant combination of technique, power and endurance.

[JobomimA]

since pacing is not really mentioned there. The only thing occasionally advised is stroke rate

Aerobic training is done at 18 - 24 and anaerobic at 28 and higher.

The Work per stroke (= Watts/Rating) is roughly the same at all ratings, which implies that drag, force and length also stay constant and that power as shown by the PM is roughly proportional to Rating. This is what lets us train for racing medium distance (2k to 5k) by doing both short and long pieces - adjust the rating, not the stroke.

The stroke can get very tough, so it's important to learn how to do it in order to be most effective and also avoid injury. The full force of both legs together goes through back shoulders and arms, about 200 times in a 2k race.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

Training power level depends on age and size, but will reach about 2W/kg at training rates. A 2k at international level is about 6 minutes, 500W, and a good amateur level is 300W, 7minutes.

The 2k Olympic distance requires a significant combination of technique, power and endurance.

Thanks for you elaborate explanation. Interesting that in training - or as I interpret your post - the training effect comes from stroke rate keeping the same power per stroke (am I correct)

I am currently doing the Pete Plan, in which I set a baseline in the first 5000m in which I could row comfortably while being tired at the end. Now I am finetuning the pace based on my own feeling and suggestions in the plan itself (like ‘try to row a few seconds below your last 6k pace)

[jamesg]

the training effect comes from stroke rate keeping the same power per stroke (am I correct)

That's the basis of rowing as exercise and also for 2k race training.

As exercise we only need do plenty of longish work with a solid stroke, at low rates.

For racing 2k, we attack from the other side too, doing short work at high rates, for boat speed.

This type of training is made possible by the PM on C2 machines. The Work in each stroke is Watts/Rating. 10 is a good number and easy to calculate on the go, but needs strength and style to engage the legs.

[Rowan McSheen]

This guy (who I think occasionally posts on this forum) is fairly specific on how to pace workouts in his plans:

https://rowalong.com/