Training To Break 1:14 - 500m

[AlexFergus]

Just checking in with some updates and thoughts.

Weight is still not quite back to where I used to be.
Leg weight session last week was excellent. Numbers are going well.

The rest of the week training wise was bad. I didn't finish my intervals (numbers were well behind goal pace, I got depressed so stopped). My upper body session was rushed so I was annoyed (my fault). And as I had another short week I tried to combine 2 workouts into one - bad idea, I did poorly at both.

Anyway, I took the weekend off and am starting a fresh week today.

I'm also look at getting in a stationary bike - a wattbike or a C2 bike (not sure yet) for times like this - so I can mix up my training. Plus it will be good to have one for days when you really don't want to be on the erg. Or for cool down sessions (I can never do a cooldown on an erg after a hard sprint session!)


Now for my questions/thoughts

Aerobic level
When i used to train for 2000m OTW rowing, I had a resting HR in the mid to low 30's. I was also training 12x a week and doing massive kms in the boat (and on the erg, 60min rows were common on the erg, likewise with 2-3 hour rows on the water).
I was fit, but I was a lightweight and never did weights, and rarely did sprints.

Today - my RHR is about 57. In fact, I have been wearing my Oura Ring for a few years, and when I started my 500m training at the start of this year, I've noticed my RHR has actually gone up a few points which is really odd.

Now I know RHR isn't the be all and end all fitness marker, but I do wonder if I should be doing more aerobic work. I figured 1x aerobic session a week, plus all the sprint interval work I did would be enough to improve my aerobic markers. But maybe it's not? Though at the same time I do a regular 30min row with a capped HR (146bpm) and this has improved A LOT this year.

So am I reading into the RHR thing too much?
If my numbers are improving does it matter?
Or should I try and do more aerobic work?

Extra Training
If I were to increase my Aerobic training, I could look at doing extra morning sessions. I could maybe even squeeze in an extra conditioning or bike sprint session in the morning as well - especially if I do decide to commit to the world champs in Feb 2023.

At the moment my week program looks like this:

All afternoon sessions
Monday - big sprint interval row or time trial race
Tuesday - lower body weights
Wednesday - upper body weights
Thursday - Aerobic recovery row/capped HR
Friday - Extras (another interval session, or some explosive weights, etc)


I have thought about doing morning sessions, first thing in the am before breakfast.

I could get in some extra 30min rows/bike sessions. Maybe even some extra conditioning sessions - like a hill sprint session, or sled pushes.

IDK - just thinking a loud at the moment.

[GlennUk]

Daughter - oh gosh. I have heard similar horror stories about kids and tonsillitis. Parenting is hard isn't it. What a journey it takes you on.

My wife and often remark if parents really knew how tough it can be, maybe the worlds population wouldn't be quite so big!!

Anyway, I hope you and yours are ok and that you get back to form soon.

[alex9026]

New to the forum so a lot of catching up to do, but from what I've skim read, this is inspiring stuff. As someone trying to balance erging (from a running background) and lifting (still milking linear progression), the numbers you are putting out on both are quite remarkable...!

Ref increasing your steady state work, have you scope to tie it in with your lifting as a pro-longed warm up? I'm offering a suggestion I wouldn't enjoy myself, I like to keep the two seperate, but if I was in your position and needed to get the job done, I would find it the most practical approach. Equally, I'm not pulling over 200kg so I can rattle through my lifting in 45mins, 60mins if inc some fluff.

[AlexFergus]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the post Alex

The logical place to squeeze in extra k's is prior to my lifting yes. I did try this a while back, but it threw me off a bit. I have a different routine for my weights and my rowing days, so I felt a bit disjointed haha. And sometimes I get off the erg with tight hips - so then I need to do more work releasing them prior to lifting.


But I ended up doing an aerobic row saturday morning. It worked well. I typically don't train on the weekend - I dedicate that time to the farm and family. But I found the morning session was fine - my wife and little ones aren't rushing off to playdates or kids activities, so it's a slower morning. I can get up, get them sorted them duck off for a 30min row and come back and have breakfast.

So i think I'll keep doing this going forward.

Monday today - I am going to do some big sprints. I was tempted to try another 500m, but I wanted to get a few good sprint sessions under my belt to regain the confidence

[AlexFergus]

Confidence is back

I did 8x 150m / 2 min rest. Previous best was an average of 824watts over 8 repeats - this was done early August (as I planned on doing my 500m a week after but that didn't eventuate)

yesterday I had 848w average for the 8 repeats. So. big jump.

When I did my 1:16.8 I had done this session a week prior and held 800w. So It is a 48w improvement since then. Which gives me confidence going into next weeks time trial.

Goal - Drop below 1:16. I want to see a 1:15 on the clock at the end of the 500m.

I'll report back in a week

[AlexFergus]

So it's been another few weeks of disruption. I write this sitting next to my boy as he's into the 3rd day of fevers.. Fortunately I think he's over the worst and we're seizure free this time.

Anyway I did attempt a 500m last week - but I learnt a valuable lesson - short strokes don't suit me!
I was rating well over 50 (57's etc) and pretty much 200-250m in I crashed and burned. Worst of all the splits weren't even that good.

I was looking at the stroke data, and yeah each stroke was only netting me about 7m of distance, my previous 500m PB had a SPM of 47 and i was doing 10-11m per stroke.

Anyway, I turned that session into an interval workout and moved on.

I then had a 3 day weekend away (hunting), I thought I'd try another 500m on the monday after that. But 1) My legs were tight from the hunting (lots of steep hill walks etc) and 2) as I returned Thomas came down with a fever so I was on seizure watch.

Thus sleep has been horrible. But I did duck out to the gym for an hour last night and decided to give it a crack.

I should also note, last week I was aiming to simply hold 800w for the entire row (goal was an 800w av).
Yesterday I decided stuff it, 850w is my big goal, so let's see how long I can keep the average above 850w.

So it was another go hard and hold on row.

I held the 850m average for 389m.
I knew if I could hold it for 400m then a 600w final split would get me close to the 800w av.

Anyway I slipped at the end and finished with a 1:16.2 (791watt)

So another PB. 0.6 seconds faster.

But a bit disappointed i didn't break into the 1:15's.

Again though I did this with poor prep & sleep deprived etc etc.

Also, looking at the data and footage, I stopped rowing a tad to early at the finish. My predicted finish time went from 1:15.8 to 1:16.2 in the last 2 strokes. I should have squeezed in one extra stroke and I probably would have been above the 800w average.

So I'll add all these learnings to my ever growing list of lessons learnt!

Full pacing data can be seen here :

https://log.concept2.com/profile/140341/log/67973711

Next 500m attempt will be at the Oceania champs at the end of the month.

In other news I am now working with a Strength & Conditioning coach - he's mentoring me - and overseeing my programming. Already we've made some good changes:
1) One big row/sprint session a week
2) More speed work with the weights (less grind/grunt strength lifts)
3) One power/creatine phosphate row session (intervals - short sprints, long rests etc)
4) A recovery row/bike the morning after my leg weight session.
5) More rowing strength focus on my upper body lifting day (as that had too much volume/hypertrophy programming).

[Tsnor]

In other news I am now working with a Strength & Conditioning coach - he's mentoring me - and overseeing my programming. Already we've made some good changes:
1) One big row/sprint session a week
2) More speed work with the weights (less grind/grunt strength lifts)
3) One power/creatine phosphate row session (intervals - short sprints, long rests etc)
4) A recovery row/bike the morning after my leg weight session.
5) More rowing strength focus on my upper body lifting day (as that had too much volume/hypertrophy programming).

Would you be willing to post a typical week with the changes you've made?

[T_M]

Congrats on the PB especially with the distractions. Hope your boy is doing okay.

[Dangerscouse]

So it's been another few weeks of disruption. I write this sitting next to my boy as he's into the 3rd day of fevers.. Fortunately I think he's over the worst and we're seizure free this time.

Anyway I did attempt a 500m last week - but I learnt a valuable lesson - short strokes don't suit me!
I was rating well over 50 (57's etc) and pretty much 200-250m in I crashed and burned. Worst of all the splits weren't even that good.

I was looking at the stroke data, and yeah each stroke was only netting me about 7m of distance, my previous 500m PB had a SPM of 47 and i was doing 10-11m per stroke.

Anyway, I turned that session into an interval workout and moved on.

I then had a 3 day weekend away (hunting), I thought I'd try another 500m on the monday after that. But 1) My legs were tight from the hunting (lots of steep hill walks etc) and 2) as I returned Thomas came down with a fever so I was on seizure watch.

Thus sleep has been horrible. But I did duck out to the gym for an hour last night and decided to give it a crack.

I should also note, last week I was aiming to simply hold 800w for the entire row (goal was an 800w av).
Yesterday I decided stuff it, 850w is my big goal, so let's see how long I can keep the average above 850w.

So it was another go hard and hold on row.

I held the 850m average for 389m.
I knew if I could hold it for 400m then a 600w final split would get me close to the 800w av.

Anyway I slipped at the end and finished with a 1:16.2 (791watt)

So another PB. 0.6 seconds faster.

But a bit disappointed i didn't break into the 1:15's.

Again though I did this with poor prep & sleep deprived etc etc.

Also, looking at the data and footage, I stopped rowing a tad to early at the finish. My predicted finish time went from 1:15.8 to 1:16.2 in the last 2 strokes. I should have squeezed in one extra stroke and I probably would have been above the 800w average.

So I'll add all these learnings to my ever growing list of lessons learnt!

Shaving off 0.6 seconds is a massive achievement even without your head being totally focused on far more important issues. Hope your son is doing alright, and it sounds like breaking into the 1:15s is within your reach at the moment, nevermind after some good quality S&C training

[GlennUk]

Shaving off 0.6 seconds is a massive achievement even without your head being totally focused on far more important issues. Hope your son is doing alright, and it sounds like breaking into the 1:15s is within your reach at the moment, never mind after some good quality S&C training

This, i was just thinking the same thing, Stu beat me to it.

Quite interested in the short vs long strokes, I am just starting on my attempt to improve my 100m, and have always struggled to rate signfciantly higher than 45spm (even then 'style' is somewhat sketchy!).

I haven't settled on final plan but will be testing to see what combination of spm vs stroke length suits me best.

Good luck with the next few weeks, hope Thomas is ok

[AlexFergus]

Thanks everyone.

The next big milestone was cracking into the 800's (watts) which was also a sub 1:16 - so I was a little disappointed i didn't get that, but honestly I think if I had pulled one more quick stroke at the end I would have achieved this. Lesson learnt to row through the finish - even if I'm in a world of hurt!

Thomas ended up having a fever for 5 days straight, it was brutal. But no seizures. And though my sleep was shocking for a week we're on the mend now.
Hoping I get a good week of training this week - though I have picked up a bit of a cough (sleep deprivation = the best way to weaken your immune system!)

Strokes
So when I first started out on this journey I rated quite low, with rather long strokes (coming from my OTW/2k background). I spent a lot of time shortening this up.
But every now and then I do a sprint where I do some shorter strokes at the start and I don't lengthen - I just stay fixed in that short stroke pattern. Its ok for 200m or so. Maybe 300m. But then you burn out. And there's nothing left.

An extreme example of this is the big guys who do crazy 100m times with hardly any knee bend/leg drive - it's all pivoting from the hips using back and arms etc. Theres a ton of power there for 10-15seconds, then there's nothing (so you don't see this technique very often in fast 500m times).

I have now set a limit on my stroke rate - if I see a 50 or higher on the SPM I know I need to lengthen my stroke. I used this rule in my last piece and it worked good. I think my average was around 47 (compared with my fail attempt the week earlier which was around 57!)

I think one simply has to play around with stroke length, rating, drag (another variable that has a big influence on rating etc) and see what works.
I know for me - my core asset are my legs. I have a strong back, but there are guys out there with much stronger backs and arms than I. Meanwhile I think for my size my legs are up there. And this is showing in my sessions.

I need to ensure I'm using this leg drive to get the best result. And - for me - that means I need to keep my rating around that 45mark. Anything above that and I shorten up - and in turn don't tap into all that power my legs have.

Someone with a ton of arm/back strength, and relatively weaker legs, may find the opposite. But hey, what do I know. I'm trying to figure it all out myself

[AlexFergus]

In other news I am now working with a Strength & Conditioning coach - he's mentoring me - and overseeing my programming. Already we've made some good changes:
1) One big row/sprint session a week
2) More speed work with the weights (less grind/grunt strength lifts)
3) One power/creatine phosphate row session (intervals - short sprints, long rests etc)
4) A recovery row/bike the morning after my leg weight session.
5) More rowing strength focus on my upper body lifting day (as that had too much volume/hypertrophy programming).

Would you be willing to post a typical week with the changes you've made?

Hey.
yeah so I'm still ironing out the details,

but the new plan will look something like this:

Monday Metabolic Row Day (my big sprint interval session on the erg. Full warmup, 100% focus, aiming to break PB's etc. My most important session of the week.)
Tuesday Lower Body weights session. Focus on strength, but also some power work. Deadlifts/squats etc. These two days are the key sessions in a week. If I only get two sessions done in a week, these are the two I do
Wednesday AM - I'm going to try get a 20min aerobic bike in (leg recovery).
PM - Upper body weights - focus on getting a stronger back/pull. But also work on overall upper body strength
Thursday My aerobic/easy day. AM - 20 mins aerobic. PM - 20-30mins aerobic (one on the bike, one of the erg). Or if I can't get two in, I'll do one 40min session.
Friday My power/speed day.
AM - power strokes on the erg. I.e. short sprint, long/full recovery rest. Creatine Phosphate type intervals. Maybe on a lower drag session if the legs still feel sluggish from Tuesday (which they often do!)
PM - power session in the gym - plyometrics, speed lifts in the gym. Cleans etc
Saturday AM - backup day (ie. if I miss a session during the week). Otherwise optional 20min aerobic session.
Sunday OFF. I try and do some sauna hot colds.

[Tsnor]

...the new plan will look something like this:

Monday Metabolic Row Day (my big sprint interval session on the erg. Full warmup, 100% focus, aiming to break PB's etc. My most important session of the week.)
Tuesday Lower Body weights session. Focus on strength, but also some power work. Deadlifts/squats etc. These two days are the key sessions in a week. If I only get two sessions done in a week, these are the two I do
Wednesday AM - I'm going to try get a 20min aerobic bike in (leg recovery).
PM - Upper body weights - focus on getting a stronger back/pull. But also work on overall upper body strength
Thursday My aerobic/easy day. AM - 20 mins aerobic. PM - 20-30mins aerobic (one on the bike, one of the erg). Or if I can't get two in, I'll do one 40min session.
Friday My power/speed day.
AM - power strokes on the erg. I.e. short sprint, long/full recovery rest. Creatine Phosphate type intervals. Maybe on a lower drag session if the legs still feel sluggish from Tuesday (which they often do!)
PM - power session in the gym - plyometrics, speed lifts in the gym. Cleans etc
Saturday AM - backup day (ie. if I miss a session during the week). Otherwise optional 20min aerobic session.
Sunday OFF. I try and do some sauna hot colds.

TY, neat to see how different a spinster workout is from even a 2K.

Would swapping Tues and Wed give your lower body (hammered sprinting Monday) a chance to recover/adapt before the intense Lower Body weights session?

Do you target "draining the tank" and "work to fail" for Monday/Tuesday or are you more targeting "stop with one interval/rep left"?

[Dutch]

Thanks everyone.

The next big milestone was cracking into the 800's (watts) which was also a sub 1:16 - so I was a little disappointed i didn't get that, but honestly I think if I had pulled one more quick stroke at the end I would have achieved this. Lesson learnt to row through the finish - even if I'm in a world of hurt!

Thomas ended up having a fever for 5 days straight, it was brutal. But no seizures. And though my sleep was shocking for a week we're on the mend now.
Hoping I get a good week of training this week - though I have picked up a bit of a cough (sleep deprivation = the best way to weaken your immune system!)

Strokes
So when I first started out on this journey I rated quite low, with rather long strokes (coming from my OTW/2k background). I spent a lot of time shortening this up.
But every now and then I do a sprint where I do some shorter strokes at the start and I don't lengthen - I just stay fixed in that short stroke pattern. Its ok for 200m or so. Maybe 300m. But then you burn out. And there's nothing left.

An extreme example of this is the big guys who do crazy 100m times with hardly any knee bend/leg drive - it's all pivoting from the hips using back and arms etc. Theres a ton of power there for 10-15seconds, then there's nothing (so you don't see this technique very often in fast 500m times).

I have now set a limit on my stroke rate - if I see a 50 or higher on the SPM I know I need to lengthen my stroke. I used this rule in my last piece and it worked good. I think my average was around 47 (compared with my fail attempt the week earlier which was around 57!)

I think one simply has to play around with stroke length, rating, drag (another variable that has a big influence on rating etc) and see what works.
I know for me - my core asset are my legs. I have a strong back, but there are guys out there with much stronger backs and arms than I. Meanwhile I think for my size my legs are up there. And this is showing in my sessions.

I need to ensure I'm using this leg drive to get the best result. And - for me - that means I need to keep my rating around that 45mark. Anything above that and I shorten up - and in turn don't tap into all that power my legs have.

Someone with a ton of arm/back strength, and relatively weaker legs, may find the opposite. But hey, what do I know. I'm trying to figure it all out myself

Interesting write up Alex. I particularly like the bit about an upper limit on stroke rate. I am guilty of shortening up the stroke and thinking I can power through with arms and legs, thinking being the operative word lol. I once had 72 spm for 100m.
Under 50 is a good starting bench mark though.

[AlexFergus]

TY, neat to see how different a spinster workout is from even a 2K.

Would swapping Tues and Wed give your lower body (hammered sprinting Monday) a chance to recover/adapt before the intense Lower Body weights session?

Do you target "draining the tank" and "work to fail" for Monday/Tuesday or are you more targeting "stop with one interval/rep left"?

Swapping Tues/Wed - I have tried a few different plans here, but the current system works well.
Mentally I like doing the leg session earlier in the week. And physically the sprint session on the Monday doesn't seem to impact my leg strength in the gym (my numbers support this as well).
Pretty much as soon as I do that gym session, my legs are cooked for a few days. Since I'm now doing the power/speed stuff on Friday, at least a Tuesday gym session gives me a bit more recovery time before the intensity is loaded on again.

Draining the tank - the sprint row session is always max effort. The Tuesday weight session used to be to form failure (technical failure some call it). But I'm moving more towards leaving a few more reps in the tank. I.e. stopping when the rep speed starts slowing.

This has required a mindset change on my part. My background is powerlifting and bodybuilding - so lots of lifting to failure - pushing those 'grind' sets out. Taking the muscle to absolute exhaustion - resting a bit then hitting it again etc.
But I'm learning that this isn't necessary (or even wise) for power/sprint performance. Not to mention the extra stress on the body (this type of training was fine when you'd only do one big lower body session a week, but now I'm doing the erg work as well recovery is more important).