Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[MartinSH4321]

I've been using HR when training since March 2005 and can honestly say I have never done a session where my HR has stayed constant.

And this is absolutely fine if this works for you.
I think "real" UT2 sessions are needed by athletes who train several times a day and sum up many hours of training per week to not get fully drained.

When I first started using HR zones for training I did a bit of homework first. Then spent time and money by having a full physiological assessment at the sports science department of a local University. This was on a C2 so was sport specific. The assessment included blood lactate profile step test and vo2max.

From this I set my zones which weren't based on a generic % of MHR. They were "real".

At that time I was doing about 11 sessions per week. All sessions were zone 1 (below LT1) and zone 2 (below LT2). Zone 1 sessions were mainly 16k r20 so just under an hour at that time. Twice a day was not unusual.

I can assure you that my HR cap for Zone 1 was nowhere close to 70% of MHR.

Obviously, this is based on my physiology and won't be the same for everybody, so why should a generic 65%-70% of MHR for UT2 be pushed time and time again on everybody?

Out of interest Nick: When you got your real zones, have you always trained close to the upper limit?

To get an adaptive signal both intensity and duration is relevant, so based on different parameters like the training load you can recover from and the time you can spend for training, the "perfect" HR for Zone 1 training can differ from athlete to athlete.
For example, if I can only recover from 1h per day at the upper limit of Zone 1, but 90min or 2h at the middle/lower end, it's possible that I can have a higher training effect with a lower HR workout. As I regularly see elite athletes posting long Zone 1 sessions with AHR in the 120s I think it can work for sure.

Here's a presentation from Stephen Seiler I find very interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U

[nick rockliff]

And this is absolutely fine if this works for you.
I think "real" UT2 sessions are needed by athletes who train several times a day and sum up many hours of training per week to not get fully drained.

When I first started using HR zones for training I did a bit of homework first. Then spent time and money by having a full physiological assessment at the sports science department of a local University. This was on a C2 so was sport specific. The assessment included blood lactate profile step test and vo2max.

From this I set my zones which weren't based on a generic % of MHR. They were "real".

At that time I was doing about 11 sessions per week. All sessions were zone 1 (below LT1) and zone 2 (below LT2). Zone 1 sessions were mainly 16k r20 so just under an hour at that time. Twice a day was not unusual.

I can assure you that my HR cap for Zone 1 was nowhere close to 70% of MHR.

Obviously, this is based on my physiology and won't be the same for everybody, so why should a generic 65%-70% of MHR for UT2 be pushed time and time again on everybody?

Out of interest Nick: When you got your real zones, have you always trained close to the upper limit?

To get an adaptive signal both intensity and duration is relevant, so based on different parameters like the training load you can recover from and the time you can spend for training, the "perfect" HR for Zone 1 training can differ from athlete to athlete.
For example, if I can only recover from 1h per day at the upper limit of Zone 1, but 90min or 2h at the middle/lower end, it's possible that I can have a higher training effect with a lower HR workout. As I regularly see elite athletes posting long Zone 1 sessions with AHR in the 120s I think it can work for sure.

Here's a presentation from Stephen Seiler I find very interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U

For my zone 1 sessions my HR cap was 154. I have always liked to row at a constant pace/rate. So, I used to do some trial sessions keeping under the cap by slowing pace. Next session would be based on the average of the previous session. I used to do this until I found a pace that would allow me to complete the session at an even pace/rate but end on or just under the HR cap. This way, most of the session is well under the cap but HR is never even. For zone 2 I always used a HR cap of 160 which was mid point 3mmol. AT sessions were ~165 4mmol.

[mitchel674]

Most of us are amateurs. This is the BEGINNER Pete Plan thread after all.

These heart rate discussions related to elite athletes just don't translate to training for most of us. Pete never even mentions heart rate in his plan notes. He speaks often about technique, relaxation and efficiency. He also relates these longer rows to stroke rate. These are the pillars of the BPP. He never mentions heart rate or zones.

On a personal, yet anecdotal level, I spent 2 months last year trying heart rate zone training with strict limits on my steady state rows. All I accomplished was a weaker stroke. I spent a few months getting back to wear I had been.

Technique, relaxation and efficiency. These translate for me and most weekend warriors into RPE. Sure, I monitor my heart rate, but that is just one factor for me now.

[Rowan McSheen]

Most of us are amateurs. This is the BEGINNER Pete Plan thread after all.

These heart rate discussions related to elite athletes just don't translate to training for most of us. Pete never even mentions heart rate in his plan notes. He speaks often about technique, relaxation and efficiency. He also relates these longer rows to stroke rate. These are the pillars of the BPP. He never mentions heart rate or zones...

^ Agreed. It's interesting to read what the fast guys do but recreational and fitness paddlers (I class myself as such) should beware of overthinking it. I do check the heart rate, as it's surprising how much I need to slow down in summer heat and how much quicker I can go in cooler times for the same hr reading. That in combination with complying with Pete's advice on stroke rate.

After some experimentation I too have found the pace that at present I can maintain at 22-ish spm for the steady rows, especially as they get longer, so that I finish the piece nudging the top of the desired hr band (UT1 in my case). If I feel I'm running cool I pick it up a little from the mid point, if running hot I ease off. Similar with UT2 rows at 20-ish spm, of which I do one per week of the Beginners PP.

Also, these plans are not carved in stone. We can tweak them to our own needs. It's all good - putting metres in the bank, working the cv system, and earning the beers.

[Sakly]

Most of us are amateurs. This is the BEGINNER Pete Plan thread after all.

These heart rate discussions related to elite athletes just don't translate to training for most of us. Pete never even mentions heart rate in his plan notes. He speaks often about technique, relaxation and efficiency. He also relates these longer rows to stroke rate. These are the pillars of the BPP. He never mentions heart rate or zones.

On a personal, yet anecdotal level, I spent 2 months last year trying heart rate zone training with strict limits on my steady state rows. All I accomplished was a weaker stroke. I spent a few months getting back to wear I had been.

Technique, relaxation and efficiency. These translate for me and most weekend warriors into RPE. Sure, I monitor my heart rate, but that is just one factor for me now.

This is the reason why we don't have to focus on that stuff. We do not sit on the rower 2 times a day, 7 days a week. So we don't have to think about methods to not overtrain and be drained after 3 weeks of such training. Elite rowers have to.

[thaloun]

Week 8 is now complete so it's onwards and upwards to week 9, after retaking that pesky 3 x 1000m. My 500m pace was just too much, even with the relatively long rest. The halfway house between current 500m and 1500 interval paces turned out about right, energetic but achievable while feeling I could go a little faster next time.

Surprising how much more effort it takes to shave off just 3-4 seconds when covering 1000m.

If you look back a few weeks in the thread the exact thing happened to me in week 8. I was thinking about it later, and when you establish that pace with 500/2, at the end of meter 2999 you have had about 12 minutes on and 10 minutes rest, so you're at 22 minutes. Just one week later with 1000/3 you theoretically complete meter 2999 after ~12 minutes on and 6 of rest. So the same output in 18/22 the time. That's just, along with the longer interval, is just plain much harder imo. Don't feel bad at all I think that's just an oversight in the instructions.

As for my own heartrate this week I'm continuing to see meaningful increases in the pace necessary to get my heartrate up to 150, which is where I feel comfortable for the 10k/8k rows. I get an hour a day of light exercise wakling the dog that I treat as active recovery and I'm mostly listening to my body for fatigue or impacts on the harder days. Though when I get to a milestone like 10k this week and rank the workout and it's comparing my SS pace to everybody's timetrial numbers and I end up in the 3rd percentile that stings a little haha. So yeah maybe I'll push it more idk.

[mitchel674]

Week 19 opens with a drop back down to 10km for the long piece. With my heart rate monitor on the fritz, I aimed for some easy rowing at 22spm focusing on relaxation, recovery and efficiency. Target pace was 2:22



Ever get on the erg and just feel in the zone? This was one of those days. I felt like I could row for hours. With the 10k done, I clicked on just row figuring I would do a few more meters and rowed another 10k. Pretty nice morning!

[frenzen]

Week 5 done (3 days late because I got injured from bouldering)

Day 2:



Day 3:

[frenzen]

You’re using too basic (and a discredited) method of working out your HR zone.
Is 194 your actual max (MHR) - have you seen that during intense exercise or have you used 220 minus your age?
Your resting rate (RHR) is what it is when you wake up, and usually fairly consistent. 49-60 is too big a range. Is that what it is when you’ve sat and rested during the day?
Your %ages should be worked out using the formula MHR minus RHR = heart rate reserve (HRR). Take the % of your HRR and add your RHR. So assuming 194 is your MHR and take 50 as your RHR your HRR is 144.
60% of 144 = 86.4 + 50 = 136.4
70% of 144 = 100.8 + 50 = 150.8.
So your steady state (UT2) training should be in the 136-150 range.
The ErgData data shows you pushed a bit too hard by going into zone 4 - don’t use those zones - they are set for average people and very few of us are average. Work out your personal zones.
Keep your SS workouts capped at 150 and you won’t go far wrong.
Listen to what Cameron has to say about it.
https://youtu.be/zokds0OUzzE
Good luck.

Thanks Tony, my actual MHR wasn't 194 as I did that 220-minus my age. However my MHR is actually 203 and RHR is 60. It is 60 according to my apple watch. So my HRR should be around 143 (which is close to your calculations).



85.8+60 = 145.8 = 60%
100.1+60 = 160.1 = 70%

I did a 7k row today and the apple watch didn't glitch in the beginning (heart rate was moving around 90) but it did jump randomly to 175 bpm and I stopped until it went back to 130 and rowed around 140-150 bpm.



I am going to ditch the apple watch as I think it is not very accurate and/or it doesn't update fast enough.

[thaloun]

Another week down. I'm hitting the ios16 bug so I'm not getting those browsable workout details. Surprising how much that saps my enjoyment actually. I learned the c2 utility has a mac version so I've ordered a usb C to B cable and should be able to update the firmware on the PM and also pull the recent workouts from memory in full detail.

In other news I'm continuing to push the pace. I've been treating the 10k Monday rows as SS but I'm going to try and do those a fair bit faster and aim to hit the 25th percentile of ranked rows for my age group at ~2:17 pace. That's 5s splits faster over another three weeks and feels quite doable. Especially because the five seconds between 2:22 and 2:17 is much smaller than between 1:55 and 1:50, in absolute terms. 3x10/2r for 6.6k felt ok also so I'm confident.

Another change I'm making is pulling the bar a fair bit higher on my chest at the end of the drive. It feels good but forces my fingers to rotate a bit as my wrists point towards each other at the end and is leading to some blisters. I'm hoping like my first ones they'll callus over and stop being a problem. Had a massage during the week and the next day's workout felt amazing. If I'm ever gonna do a real 2k or other test I'm definitely going to schedule one beforehand again!

[frenzen]

Week 6 done





Used the chest strap on Day 3, it was a bit itchy at first on my back but I got used it and I almost clipped it a few times since I would pull the handle to my chest.

[frenzen]

Another week down. I'm hitting the ios16 bug so I'm not getting those browsable workout details. Surprising how much that saps my enjoyment actually. I learned the c2 utility has a mac version so I've ordered a usb C to B cable and should be able to update the firmware on the PM and also pull the recent workouts from memory in full detail.

In other news I'm continuing to push the pace. I've been treating the 10k Monday rows as SS but I'm going to try and do those a fair bit faster and aim to hit the 25th percentile of ranked rows for my age group at ~2:17 pace. That's 5s splits faster over another three weeks and feels quite doable. Especially because the five seconds between 2:22 and 2:17 is much smaller than between 1:55 and 1:50, in absolute terms. 3x10/2r for 6.6k felt ok also so I'm confident.

Another change I'm making is pulling the bar a fair bit higher on my chest at the end of the drive. It feels good but forces my fingers to rotate a bit as my wrists point towards each other at the end and is leading to some blisters. I'm hoping like my first ones they'll callus over and stop being a problem. Had a massage during the week and the next day's workout felt amazing. If I'm ever gonna do a real 2k or other test I'm definitely going to schedule one beforehand again!

My concept pm5 has a usb port and can update via that. Although I have a macbook, I suggest you get a USB to USB C Adapter next time since you can just use a regular B cable with the adapter and overall it has more uses like having a wireless usb mouse etc. Also if you are getting blisters again, you might be gripping very hard. How do you feel after rowing 2:22 pace, do you find it too easy?

[Rowan McSheen]

The two optional workouts to complete week 9 are done so onwards and upwards to week 10. The steady row pace has stabilized at roughly 2:17 and 23 spm, which is the pace to hold as hr rises gradually through the UT2 band to reach the floor of UT1 at about the halfway mark and ceiling by the end (sometimes easing off a little in the final 1000m or so if going any higher). I start each new week with 10,000m or more at UT2 (that's today's workout).

Recalibrating (ie slowing) my short interval paces was the right thing to do. As I slide grumpily beyond the first quarter of my seventh decade in existence, I have to accept that my pb's are ancient history and it's all about managing decline

[aegis]

You’re using too basic (and a discredited) method of working out your HR zone.
Is 194 your actual max (MHR) - have you seen that during intense exercise or have you used 220 minus your age?
Your resting rate (RHR) is what it is when you wake up, and usually fairly consistent. 49-60 is too big a range. Is that what it is when you’ve sat and rested during the day?
Your %ages should be worked out using the formula MHR minus RHR = heart rate reserve (HRR). Take the % of your HRR and add your RHR. So assuming 194 is your MHR and take 50 as your RHR your HRR is 144.
60% of 144 = 86.4 + 50 = 136.4
70% of 144 = 100.8 + 50 = 150.8.
So your steady state (UT2) training should be in the 136-150 range.
The ErgData data shows you pushed a bit too hard by going into zone 4 - don’t use those zones - they are set for average people and very few of us are average. Work out your personal zones.
Keep your SS workouts capped at 150 and you won’t go far wrong.
Listen to what Cameron has to say about it.
https://youtu.be/zokds0OUzzE
Good luck.

Thanks Tony, my actual MHR wasn't 194 as I did that 220-minus my age. However my MHR is actually 203 and RHR is 60. It is 60 according to my apple watch. So my HRR should be around 143 (which is close to your calculations).



85.8+60 = 145.8 = 60%
100.1+60 = 160.1 = 70%

I did a 7k row today and the apple watch didn't glitch in the beginning (heart rate was moving around 90) but it did jump randomly to 175 bpm and I stopped until it went back to 130 and rowed around 140-150 bpm.



I am going to ditch the apple watch as I think it is not very accurate and/or it doesn't update fast enough.

I'd suggest getting a chest strap, given the movements with the arms I've found the hr from watches to be quite unreliable when rowing.

For zones I've been adapting as i went along, i discovered new max heart rates and also changes in rhr. I review my zones every one two months and adjust accordingly.

[thaloun]

My concept pm5 has a usb port and can update via that. Although I have a macbook, I suggest you get a USB to USB C Adapter next time since you can just use a regular B cable with the adapter and overall it has more uses like having a wireless usb mouse etc. Also if you are getting blisters again, you might be gripping very hard. How do you feel after rowing 2:22 pace, do you find it too easy?

Yeah adapter probably would have been smarter as it would fit on the end of any of my dozens of usb cables that always accumulate. Anyways it came and I was able to upgrade the firmware and fill in the gaps in the log so all is well. Have to do it again since the beta firmware has promoted to latest.

For the grip, I don't feel like I'm holding it too hard. In fact since I'm not using my thumbs I don't see how I could even hold it less hard at all. Only enough to actually pull it on the drive really. Thankfully they've settled down completely on one hand and are toughening up on the other. Shouldn't be an issue long term.

For the pace I have noticed it's been a bit tougher all around, but reasonable. I'm trying to suss out what is sustainable. I'm just finished with workout 5 in 5 days now and am pretty wiped honestly, but during each session it just feels like a solid honest effort. Interestingly I've noticed I have to work way way harder to get my HR up in to the 180s. I used to think people who had 135bpm targets for steady state weren't working at all but now it takes much more exertion to get it way up which I'm taking as a good sign.

This week's 10k was at 2:18 and I took Pete's advice to strictly limit stroke rate for the other 8k SS workout and concentrate on form and not on pace and ended up at 2:19@19s/m and under my HR budget so maybe that's just where I'm at fitness wise now. I felt I could keep going and also pass the hold a conversation test, mostly. The 4x1k was at 2:01.3 and the 3x2k was at 2:04.9. I honestly don't know if that's "too fast" to keep up with but we'll see. I'm excited! Goal is 2:16.5 next week and 2:14.0 the week after to hit that 25th percentile goal. Judging how I felt after the first 2k interval I think in an all out 2k timetrial I could come in at 7:50-7:55 at this point.