How to make it easier?

[Wilpert]

Yes, agreed, training always a good thing.
I’ve practiced that over the years in my cycling and running, it usually pays off. Always good to make sure you’re doing the right type of training though. Hence my question on pacing etc.

Reason for my post was to seek advice on training in this discipline, my post states that I’m new to rowing so I was asking for advice.

Fortunately I’ve had some good responses here and I’ll follow the advice given.
I’ll also follow the advice that I need to do some training as that will be useful too.

[gilles13006]

Hey,

From my humble experience, here are some advices:

- Psychology is an important factor to care about with "long distances" trainings. The more to get used to row long distances, the more long distance seem normal. But you quick become used to it. Your first goal should be to get used to 10k, to make it so normal to do it like it's a 2k or 5k training.

- Technique is also most important thing for long distance. Long distances are the best trainings for working on the technique, since you this is a less "rush" training. Take a time to think about it on each stroke, look at the force curve, so each stroke has the most perfect force curve.

- Low SPM : number of cycles will be huge in long distance. Keep in mind that each movement to realize each cycle will have an "negative" impact on your body. In mechanical engineering this is called "mechanical fatigue". Even with a low force, something will break until 1500 times or 8000 times ,etc. It's the same thing with your body. Your goal is to have the less possible movement cycles, with maintaining a good power. So, you have to make some large and powerful movements, but not fast or high SPM. 20-22 SPM is a good target.

Good luck for your next tries!

[Wilpert]

All great advice thanks everybody.

So today I intentionally lowered the pace, was tired anyways and just wanted a short session.
Did 30 mins at circa 19sr kept a close eye on my hr too which I managed to keep under 80% of my max, which for me is good because my heart rate climbs pretty fast usually.

Going to make a habit of never doing any sessions under 30 mins and try to increase my weekly total rowing time to around 2:30 mins, which may seem very low but for me that will be plenty until I’ve mastered the basics.

I suppose this is like any endurance sport, the short seasions are harder and the longer sessions have to be done at a lighter pace. It’s just taking me time to adjust.

[btlifter]

I suppose this is like any endurance sport, the short seasions are harder and the longer sessions have to be done at a lighter pace. It’s just taking me time to adjust.

I think you nailed it!

[AncientMariner]

Sometimes I find it helps to just fold up the monitor so you can't see the pace, and just settle in and listen to your body and row at whatever feels right, just let the body do its thing without the ego getting in the way.

[Ombrax]

Sometimes I find it helps to just fold up the monitor so you can't see the pace, and just settle in and listen to your body and row at whatever feels right, just let the body do its thing without the ego getting in the way.

I'm pretty sure that if I did this I'd end up with an avg pace of somewhere around 2:45.

[GlennUk]

Now, I want to make it totally clear that I'm not disparaging Eddie's training, but HR isn't the limiter for me. When I had to stop on my last attempt at 100k, at 85k, due to it feeling horrific from 65k, but my HR never got over 80-82%.

I don't know what to make of it, but as a bit more detail, I managed to row at circa 90% for the last 8k of my FM PB, so it's not really been an absolute limiter for me.

Admittedly my HR does seem to be a bit of an outlier so it might well be me that's the anomaly, but I just think it's useful to note

I have no idea why or how you find things different, but the EF plan is predicated on ranings to HR values with the aim of using that information o allow erging for long distances/durations at a give rate. I would not presumes that the % used inthe training plan are absolutes, in the sense that they are guides it appears to me.

it is feasible that different individuals can exercise at a given rate longer than another similar individual (age, weigh, heights, etc). Aslowe mus remember that he use of HR is a metaphor for the bodies ability to use fuel and generate energy to exercise, the thresholds for aerobic, anaerobic activity which can only be properly determined by blood testing i believe.

The upshot is that if 85% of my HR works for me over a given distance, and 80% works for you, i don't see any conflict in the logic. It doesn't mean everyone has to follow the same approach in detail, but i suspect that when it comes to it, our limits are related generally speaking to ow our particular body deals with O2 uptake/energy generation which will vary from one individual to another.

[Dangerscouse]

The upshot is that if 85% of my HR works for me over a given distance, and 80% works for you, i don't see any conflict in the logic. It doesn't mean everyone has to follow the same approach in detail, but i suspect that when it comes to it, our limits are related generally speaking to ow our particular body deals with O2 uptake/energy generation which will vary from one individual to another.

You've misunderstood me. I've done quite a lot of long sessions at 90%, and just over, which have been really hard but manageable. 85% is also a manageable HR range for me.

80% was used as an example of HR not being the limiter for an overwhelming need to HD. What I was trying to reiterate is that training is rarely a binary choice, and there's a lot of factors to consider for each person, something that you mention above too.

[GlennUk]

The upshot is that if 85% of my HR works for me over a given distance, and 80% works for you, i don't see any conflict in the logic. It doesn't mean everyone has to follow the same approach in detail, but i suspect that when it comes to it, our limits are related generally speaking to ow our particular body deals with O2 uptake/energy generation which will vary from one individual to another.

You've misunderstood me. I've done quite a lot of long sessions at 90%, and just over, which have been really hard but manageable. 85% is also a manageable HR range for me.

80% was used as an example of HR not being the limiter for an overwhelming need to HD. What I was trying to reiterate is that training is rarely a binary choice, and there's a lot of factors to consider for each person, something that you mention above too.

I didn't misunderstand you was just giving an example, th epoint being that whatever value you use, for the same %Hr another user may find 'wrong' for them.

[Tsnor]

the point being that whatever value you use, for the same %Hr another user may find 'wrong' for them.

Yes, clearly true. And conditioning can change the % max HR for some of the zones.

Also true: For some workouts your Heart is not the limiting factor so you can't use HR max as the indicator you've had enough.

If you did single arm curls until you had to stop you would never hit max heart rate. And you'd still have to stop because your arm muscles get tired.

For longer rowing distances your rowing muscles (arms, back, legs, etc. ) can stop working without needing more oxygen. No need for more oxygen then your heart rate doesn't go up. Cardio system can support more work than the rest of your body can deliver.

Heart rate is not a perfect proxy for effort level. It's just one of the better ones.

[jamesg]

Reason for my post was to seek advice on training in this discipline, my post states that I’m new to rowing so I was asking for advice.

The indices to use for this discipline are Work per stroke (= Watts/Rating), Watts/kg and meters per stroke. If you keep these under control, you can know what you are doing in terms of technique. They depend on your age, height and weight.

Since rowing is a sport, it will help if you use the standard rowing technique as described in the C2 pages such as
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

We can also see what scullers do in training, as here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf84O5cTWY4

[btlifter]

Reason for my post was to seek advice on training in this discipline, my post states that I’m new to rowing so I was asking for advice.

The indices to use for this discipline are Work per stroke (= Watts/Rating), Watts/kg and meters per stroke. If you keep these under control, you can know what you are doing in terms of technique. They depend on your age, height and weight.

Since rowing is a sport, it will help if you use the standard rowing technique as described in the C2 pages such as
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

We can also see what scullers do in training, as here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf84O5cTWY4

Those are some of the indices that *some* individuals use. Many people (including me) have never used any of them.

[Wilpert]

I’m beginning to realise that more time on the c2 is most likely going to be the answer.

I did my second longer row tonight 60 minutes gor me just shy if 13000 mts.
It seems to be coming together a bit now.
My logos is that if I can keep that pace for a half m I’ll be on to my target time of sun 1:40.

Again all thanks to good advice on here.

And my Willie Nelson music to break the monotony

[jamesg]

At about 65 kg or less fit weight (5'5" - 165cm) that's not bad at all: 13k/60' is 133W, so 2W/kg.

If at rating 20, 1200 strokes and 13000m is a very good ratio too, as also 133/20 = almost 7 W-min.

[Wilpert]

Thanks James, encouraging words.

I’m not sure I understand the relevance of stroke ratio/distance. Does this mean that I can train myself to cover more distance if I increase the rate. Given that you said 1200r to 1300k is good going?

Problem that I seem to be having is I don’t necessarily improve on distance if I up the sr for me I seem to do better when I slow down a bit although when I drop below 20 I seem to find that I rely on strength a bit more as the momentum seems to wane.

Perhaps, given that 20 seems to be a natural sr for me, might it be an idea to try the same time at a higher/lower rate and see what this achieves?

I hope the question makes sense.
And thanks again for your positive comments.