Plateau Advice

[Tsnor]

Nice to see you making progress again. That's a happy sounding post.

WHAT PACE and/or what is your personal max heart rate & the heart rate you use for your steady state ?

What were the changes you made to your SS (duration? split?) and to your the harder workouts ?

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[GlennUk]

way to go, well done.

[sstich]

Nice to see you making progress again. That's a happy sounding post.

WHAT PACE and/or what is your personal max heart rate & the heart rate you use for your steady state ?

What were the changes you made to your SS (duration? split?) and to your the harder workouts ?

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I'm 33, so in theory my max HR is 187 by the 220-[age] method or 190 by the 211-0.64*[age] one. In practice, at the end of an all out 5k, I'm typically between 185 and 190. For steady state, I'm usually around 140 to 145.

Biggest change was simply that I trashed my homebrewed programming, and just did the Pete Plan religiously. IMO, the thing that helped most was the endurance intervals. I just didn't do anything like those before, and my biggest problem previously was running out of steam in the back 750 of a 2k.

The other thing I did was *slow down* on SPM. I used to do 2ks at 33 to 35 SPM, but find I'm more efficient at ≈31 SPM. It's easier for me to hit the same 500m split time at 31 SPM than at say 34 SPM.

[Dangerscouse]

Wanted to thank everyone in this thread — after 2+ months of plateau, rowed a 7:19.3 today!

Great news.

[GlennUk]

Up my steady state rows to 1h, rather than a fixed distance.

Re: Timed row vs distance

This may not apply to you, but it's something that I've found bugs me a lot:

I dislike timed rows primarily because rowing harder doesn't make the end of the workout come sooner, so it eliminates at least part of what motivates me to push a bit more for the last x% of the session, when my body's really trying to tell my brain that "this really isn't fun any more, and wouldn't it be nice to back off just a bit?"

A lot of people say that, but I always find that it's more of a problem with distance going up rather than down, not sure why it bothers me. I even convert it to expected distance remaining in my head.

As I don't like timed sessions, it's probably more reason for me to them to do them

The plan im following is all time based, right up until i row a FM/100k

[Dangerscouse]

The plan im following is all time based, right up until i row a FM/100k

I still instinctively avoid timed sessions, for no good reason, and I know I should if only to change my perspective

[Ombrax]

The plan im following is all time based, right up until i row a FM/100k

Some of us are apparently either crazier or more dedicated (or both) than others. ; )

However, to it in perspective, there's always RAAM, which is true insanity:

https://www.sleep.com/travel/race-acros ... raam-sleep

Christoph Strasser is a nine-time RAAM competitor, six-time winner, and holder of multiple world records. (Strasser did not compete in 2021’s race). In 2014, he logged his fastest time, setting a RAAM record by finishing in seven days, 15 hours and 56 minutes. In 2019, his most recent RAAM, he won with a finishing time of just over eight days and six hours. Heat management and sleep deprivation are the toughest aspects of RAAM, says Strasser. “The tough thing about the day is that it’s hot, and the tough thing about the night is that you’re tired.”

To finish with the kind of times that Strasser posted, his total amount of sleep for the entire race fell somewhere between six and nine hours. In his fastest year, he slept just under six hours. Six hours of sleep over eight days. And that’s stacked up against about 190 hours of constant pedaling.

Goldstein uses a strategy that many RAAM racers go for: No sleep for the first two days. “I always go the first 40 hours without sleep,” she explains, “So, I’ll go through the first night and then as long as I can into the second night.” In 2021, Goldstein was able to race for 45 hours before pausing for her first rest. That rest break included only three hours of sleep.

“I think for me, at that point it’s more fatigue than anything else because the body just wants to rest, and you’re going through the desert, through [extreme heat] and elevations of almost 11,000 feet, so it’s more my muscles wanting to rest than my head.”

She’ll continue to sleep for three hours a day for the first half of RAAM. She cuts her sleeping time in half on the backside, getting about 90 minutes of sleep a day until the race ends. “I would rather take one big block of sleep and ride hard,” because for Goldstein and every other RAAM racer, “The time doesn’t stop; it’s always ticking.”

[Dangerscouse]

Christoph Strasser is a nine-time RAAM competitor, six-time winner, and holder of multiple world records. (Strasser did not compete in 2021’s race). In 2014, he logged his fastest time, setting a RAAM record by finishing in seven days, 15 hours and 56 minutes. In 2019, his most recent RAAM, he won with a finishing time of just over eight days and six hours. Heat management and sleep deprivation are the toughest aspects of RAAM, says Strasser. “The tough thing about the day is that it’s hot, and the tough thing about the night is that you’re tired.”

To finish with the kind of times that Strasser posted, his total amount of sleep for the entire race fell somewhere between six and nine hours. In his fastest year, he slept just under six hours. Six hours of sleep over eight days. And that’s stacked up against about 190 hours of constant pedaling.

Goldstein uses a strategy that many RAAM racers go for: No sleep for the first two days. “I always go the first 40 hours without sleep,” she explains, “So, I’ll go through the first night and then as long as I can into the second night.” In 2021, Goldstein was able to race for 45 hours before pausing for her first rest. That rest break included only three hours of sleep.

“I think for me, at that point it’s more fatigue than anything else because the body just wants to rest, and you’re going through the desert, through [extreme heat] and elevations of almost 11,000 feet, so it’s more my muscles wanting to rest than my head.”

She’ll continue to sleep for three hours a day for the first half of RAAM. She cuts her sleeping time in half on the backside, getting about 90 minutes of sleep a day until the race ends. “I would rather take one big block of sleep and ride hard,” because for Goldstein and every other RAAM racer, “The time doesn’t stop; it’s always ticking.”

that sounds like a form of torture

[Ombrax]

that sounds like a form of torture

It's amazing what some people do voluntarily to themselves. If you want further proof, read Jon Krakauer's book "Into Thin Air." It's about the 1996 Mt Everest incidents where eight climbers died and several lived despite being stranded in a storm (alone, outside, no oxygen, horrible wind and cold). One of scariest things I've ever read.

[Dangerscouse]

It's amazing what some people do voluntarily to themselves. If you want further proof, read Jon Krakauer's book "Into Thin Air." It's about the 1996 Mt Everest incidents where eight climbers died and several lived despite being stranded in a storm (alone, outside, no oxygen, horrible wind and cold). One of scariest things I've ever read.

It really is mind boggling what people do, but I do love that there are people who will do it!!

That book sounds good, I'll have to add to my ever growing list

[sailortodd]

[...] just did the Pete Plan religiously.

A question on your adoption of the Pete Plan, because there were recommendations in the thread to reduce the rest duration during your 500m intervals, but PP calls for long rests between intervals, did you adopt Pete's long rests?

[GlennUk]

that sounds like a form of torture

I wonder if somewhere there is a little bit of masochism on all of us, even over 100m, there is a deal of pain for a serious effort. IME rowers are particularly prone to imposing pain and discomfort on them, even thos eof us who are at the bottom end of the athletic scale, not something i recall most runner i used to run with ever discussed.

I am sure there are other groups who do this, cyclists perhaps?

[Dangerscouse]

I wonder if somewhere there is a little bit of masochism on all of us, even over 100m, there is a deal of pain for a serious effort. IME rowers are particularly prone to imposing pain and discomfort on them, even thos eof us who are at the bottom end of the athletic scale, not something i recall most runner i used to run with ever discussed.

I am sure there are other groups who do this, cyclists perhaps?

I do see quite a lot of parallels with cycling, and anyone who is dedicated enough to call themselves a rower / erger will have suffered some form of pain and suffering. As you allude to, it doesn't need to be particularly fast to be applicable: as long as it's a good honest effort.