Most Beneficial Rowing Workouts for a Runner

[Stefano]

Hi everyone!

My name is Stefano, I'm from Italy...it's a pleasure to meet you and sorry for my bad English.

I bought a C2 Rowerg a year ago and after a few months of intense use, I fell in love with running and i started training intensely for my first marathon scheduled for November 2022.

In addition to running, I am continuing to maintain two minimal weight sessions where I train only the 3 big lifts (Squat, Bench Press and Deadlift + Swings or Snatches or Cleans rotating every week). My week is organized like this:

Mon: Strength (Squat/Bench/Deadlift) + Cross training
Tue: Running
Wed: Running
Thur: Strength (Squat/Bench/Swings or Snatches or Cleans rotating every week) + Cross training
Fri: Running
Sat: Running
Sun: Rest

After my strength sessions, I would like to add two weekly rowing workouts (as cross training) because I would like to, at least, maintain the progress I have achieved over the past few months. I know that two weekly sessions are not optimal, but my current main goal is running and focus all my efforts on training for the marathon.

The question I wanted to ask you is this: How can I make the most of the two weekly sessions with the most beneficial rowing workouts for a runner? My idea is to introduce intervals (something like 4x2k or 5x1500 one day and 8x500m or 4x1k the other) since, with running, 80% of workouts are already Steady State. What do you think about it? I await your advice!

Thanks

Stefano

[Dangerscouse]

Hi Stefano, if you're following on from strength workouts the sessions you suggest will be great, assuming that you can recover properly from them.

I'm not sure that there's too much crossover with rowing and running, but that's no reason not to do it anyway, as the rower is a great way of keeping fit

[Stefano]

Hi Dangerscouse, thanks a lot for your reply…I agree with you: I don’t find much crossover but rowing is one of the greatest tool I tried for Cv fitness.

I have only a doubt about the two sessions I want to schedule: is it better to keep longer and shorter intervals (like 4x2k for the first session and 8x500m for the second one) or maybe keep two longer interval sessions (like 4x2k one day and maybe 4x10min the other)? What’s your opinion?

[gvcormac]

I have only anecdotal evidence re: crossover. I used running and rowing interchangeably when training for 10km run (PB 39:55) and marathon (PB 3:39). So I'm hardly elite. But I found the rower comparable to a run of the same time & distance.

[Tsnor]

2 weight session is about optimal.

Doing your hard rowing intervals on the same days as weight training makes sense.

You could also do long/slow (UT2 level) rowing workouts at 70% or less of max heart rate on the same days you do your long slow runs.

If you have more than 1 hard running session / week and you have 2 weight sessions with hard rowing intervals then you are likely doing too much hard and too few long slow sessions. If you are using 1 day hard running, 2 weights stacked with hard interval rowing, and 3 days long/slow runs (maybe stacked with long slow rows) then you are about optimal.

Agree with above that cross-training is not as effective as sport specific training, but it can be more interesting.

[Dangerscouse]

Hi Dangerscouse, thanks a lot for your reply…I agree with you: I don’t find much crossover but rowing is one of the greatest tool I tried for Cv fitness.

I have only a doubt about the two sessions I want to schedule: is it better to keep longer and shorter intervals (like 4x2k for the first session and 8x500m for the second one) or maybe keep two longer interval sessions (like 4x2k one day and maybe 4x10min the other)? What’s your opinion?

A big part of what you're doing is building confidence. As long as you can recover and do every session that you want to do, doing longer distances / times will always be better. When you feel like you're smashing every session, it's a virtuous circle as it breeds more subconscious energy

I'm sure you know this already, but be very mindful of when you're being lazy and when you do need to rest a bit. Ego dictated decisions will derail you all too quickly, and sometimes a step back to take two steps forward is the best decision.

[Stefano]

2 weight session is about optimal.

Doing your hard rowing intervals on the same days as weight training makes sense.

You could also do long/slow (UT2 level) rowing workouts at 70% or less of max heart rate on the same days you do your long slow runs.

If you have more than 1 hard running session / week and you have 2 weight sessions with hard rowing intervals then you are likely doing too much hard and too few long slow sessions. If you are using 1 day hard running, 2 weights stacked with hard interval rowing, and 3 days long/slow runs (maybe stacked with long slow rows) then you are about optimal.

Agree with above that cross-training is not as effective as sport specific training, but it can be more interesting.

Hi Tsnor, thanks for your reply!

My weekly training plan is organized exactly as you pointed out:

Mon: Strength + Rowing Intervals
Tue: Easy Run
Tue: Tempo Run (HM pace)
Thur: Strength + Rowing Intervals
Fri: Easy Run
Sat: Long Run
Sun: Rest

I think, according to your suggestions, that my plan could be reasonable so all i need is putting it into action!

Stefano

[Elizabeth]

Hi Stefano! If you are training to run a marathon, I'd follow a marathon training program. They'll typically have you running with a mix of speed sessions and steady state, and all cross-training would be steady state.

Anecdotally, I'm doing all of my hard sessions on the rower right now and am doing a mix of rowing and running for steady state. I can run a respectable road race but am definitely slower than I am when I am running for my speed work (Overall 5k time 1-1.5 min slower.) I imagine that you'd want that better running ability going into your marathon.

[Stefano]

A big part of what you're doing is building confidence. As long as you can recover and do every session that you want to do, doing longer distances / times will always be better. When you feel like you're smashing every session, it's a virtuous circle as it breeds more subconscious energy

I'm sure you know this already, but be very mindful of when you're being lazy and when you do need to rest a bit. Ego dictated decisions will derail you all too quickly, and sometimes a step back to take two steps forward is the best decision.

Hi Dangerscouse, thanks again: those are some very useful tips (especially when you say to control the Ego, a chronic problem I've always had)

According to your advice my two weekly sessions could be all Longer Intervals (so something 4x2k, 5x1500m, 3x3k, 5x8min, 4x10min etc..) with Speed Workouts occasionally...

[Stefano]

Hi Stefano! If you are training to run a marathon, I'd follow a marathon training program. They'll typically have you running with a mix of speed sessions and steady state, and all cross-training would be steady state.

Anecdotally, I'm doing all of my hard sessions on the rower right now and am doing a mix of rowing and running for steady state. I can run a respectable road race but am definitely slower than I am when I am running for my speed work (Overall 5k time 1-1.5 min slower.) I imagine that you'd want that better running ability going into your marathon.

Hi Elizabeth, thaks for your reply and for the tips: i'm following, right now, a Marathon training program with 4 days of Running with 1 hard Tempo Run, 2 Recovery Run and 1 Long Run at the end of the week. I'm enjoyng the program because is sustainable for my fitness level and leave me the time to train for strength (i want to keep respectable numbers for my Squat, Bench and Deadlift). This will be my first Marathon, i'll follow a more advanced program once i'll have more experience with races and training for them.

Considering all the SS i do with running, my idea was to keep the Rowing workouts harder and more intense..so the Rowing Intervals idea

[Dangerscouse]

Hi Dangerscouse, thanks again: those are some very useful tips (especially when you say to control the Ego, a chronic problem I've always had)

According to your advice my two weekly sessions could be all Longer Intervals (so something 4x2k, 5x1500m, 3x3k, 5x8min, 4x10min etc..) with Speed Workouts occasionally...

The ego is a constant problem, especially as the better you get, and consequently more confident, the louder the voice becomes. Interrogate every decision, and frame what you're looking to get out of it. There's no point in constantly doing faster days, just for bragging rights, as you'll soon fade & fail.

As you're training for a marathon, the speed workouts aren't essential, but they will train different types of your CV system so they are useful.

I'd also do some mid level work too, also referred to as grey zone training: too slow to be fast, and too fast to be slow. If you're using a HR monitor, this would be 85-90% of max HR, or you could use a rate of perceived effort (RPE) at 85-90% also. This isn't a good idea for too many consecutive sessions as they are draining without having the same amount of benefits of shorter really intense sessions, but they also do strengthen your confidence as it's likely that a fairly big part of your marathon will be at this intensity.

Your English is very good for someone who doesn't have it as their first language

[Tsnor]

My weekly training plan is organized exactly as you pointed out:

Mon: Strength + Rowing Intervals
Tue: Easy Run
Tue: Tempo Run (HM pace)
Thur: Strength + Rowing Intervals
Fri: Easy Run
Sat: Long Run
Sun: Rest

I think, according to your suggestions, that my plan could be reasonable so all i need is putting it into action!

Stefano

This is as close to "perfect" as I've seen on these forums. You must have done a lot of reading on training plans, and likely already have thoughts on the following.

You want "progressive" overload, so ramp up to this plan in a sustained gradual way from what you've been doing. Too much too soon creates the stress you want to avoid. Add volume to the long run days as you get stronger keeping the runs at UT2 (less than 70% max HR = can talk comfortably while running), don't add pace that gets you above UT2. Don't start the long runs too long. You could use a heart rate monitor and look for heart rate drift, you don't want it on the long runs.

About 6-8 weeks before your marathon I'd drop one strength + rowing intervals day and substitute a long run. I'd change the 2nd strength day to be weights and a long run or running intervals dropping the rowing intervals. Sport specificity is a good thing for muscles and neural paths.

About 2 weeks before your race start taper, drop the weights, do two days total at tempo or running interval, and start to shorten the long runs. Last week do 1/2 the volume using the same workout as the prior week.

For ironman at least, race performance improves with training time spent at UT2 and lower, and actually gets worse with time spent above UT2. https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... erformance Keep those long runs at UT2 or lower. Likely this applies to marathons too and long bike races.

[Mike Caviston]

I have run several marathons where more of my training was on the rowing ergometer than on the road (not because rowing is better than running when preparing for a marathon, but because at my age I don't really tolerate the mileage I did when I was younger). I would recommend using the erg for supplemental steady state/long distance work, and do a weekly running interval session. Long-ish intervals would be more applicable to a marathon than 500m or 1K repeats; my favorite running workouts that are similar to rowing 4 x 2K or 5 x 1500m include 4 x 1 mile, 3 x 1.5 mile, or even a single all-out 5K.

You didn't ask, so feel free to disregard, but if your strength training is intended to support your running (or rowing), limiting yourself to the so-called "big 3" lifts is less than ideal.

[Stefano]

This is as close to "perfect" as I've seen on these forums. You must have done a lot of reading on training plans, and likely already have thoughts on the following.

You want "progressive" overload, so ramp up to this plan in a sustained gradual way from what you've been doing. Too much too soon creates the stress you want to avoid. Add volume to the long run days as you get stronger keeping the runs at UT2 (less than 70% max HR = can talk comfortably while running), don't add pace that gets you above UT2. Don't start the long runs too long. You could use a heart rate monitor and look for heart rate drift, you don't want it on the long runs.

About 6-8 weeks before your marathon I'd drop one strength + rowing intervals day and substitute a long run. I'd change the 2nd strength day to be weights and a long run or running intervals dropping the rowing intervals. Sport specificity is a good thing for muscles and neural paths.

About 2 weeks before your race start taper, drop the weights, do two days total at tempo or running interval, and start to shorten the long runs. Last week do 1/2 the volume using the same workout as the prior week.

For ironman at least, race performance improves with training time spent at UT2 and lower, and actually gets worse with time spent above UT2. https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... erformance Keep those long runs at UT2 or lower. Likely this applies to marathons too and long bike races.

Hi Tsnor

This is extremely useful and thanks a lot for your time: i'll follow for sure your plan especially, exactly as you outlined, the taper phase.

Stefano

[Stefano]

I have run several marathons where more of my training was on the rowing ergometer than on the road (not because rowing is better than running when preparing for a marathon, but because at my age I don't really tolerate the mileage I did when I was younger). I would recommend using the erg for supplemental steady state/long distance work, and do a weekly running interval session. Long-ish intervals would be more applicable to a marathon than 500m or 1K repeats; my favorite running workouts that are similar to rowing 4 x 2K or 5 x 1500m include 4 x 1 mile, 3 x 1.5 mile, or even a single all-out 5K.

You didn't ask, so feel free to disregard, but if your strength training is intended to support your running (or rowing), limiting yourself to the so-called "big 3" lifts is less than ideal.

Hi Mike

Thanks a lot for your reply: i'll use the erg to improve my endurance...as you, i'm also very careful about road mileage: in the past i experienced some annoying injuries because of "too fast too soon"...so the idea of using my Rowerg as a precious cross-training tool.

My strength training is exactly intended to support my running: I have lifted a lot of weights in the past with gym sessions that included several exercises (Squat, Deadlift, Benche, Overhead Press, Rows, Pull Ups, abs, arms etc..) reaching a decent level of strength (2xBW Squat and 2.5xBW Deadlift).

In recent months I have discovered and i have begun to appreciate minimalism in strength training ... unfortunately I don't have much time left (especially for family and work commitments) and considering that Running is my main goal, the sessions in the gym must be:

1) very short and maximum two per week
2) include the "most bang for the buck" exercises

I have read several authors who propose this philosophy ... in particular Pavel Tsatsouline and the books "Tactical Barbell" written by K. Black ... reading and comparing myself with people who follow this training philosophy, I received as a suggestion, considering all the resistance training that I am following, to make my gym sessions even more minimal, something like:

Session 1: Deadlift + Bench Press
Session 2: Deadlift + Bench Press

This is a very tempting layout, perfect to leave time for Running and Rowing, and i'm really thinking about implementing it: Pavel's program "Power to the People" is built exactly like this and there's a chapter, in the second edition of "Tactical Barbell" book, where there's the example of a marathoner who ran 6 times a week with two Strength sessions consisting only of deadlift and bench press.

Last week i read also an article about Barry Ross and his strength program for sprinters: the basic plan again included the deadlift and a push exercise + power clean/abs.

I really like the constructive comparison, do you have a different idea about strenghth training for distance runners?

Stefano