Running A Marathon

[old] ancho · Post by **[old] ancho** » July 26th, 2005, 10:15 am

Finally I have decided to give me the punishment of running a marathon next november (Maratón de Donosti, San Sebastián-Spain). My target is just to finish it, of course with a reasonable good time. I'm in a fairly dood shape running, yesterday I did 19 km in about 1h 32min. But I want the marathon to interfere as less as possible with my rowing training, this is, I want to continue rowing/erging as much as possible, and run only the necessary... , also for the sake of my knees (83 kg is not a very "marathon-like" weight). Taking this into consideration, how should I prepare? Any ideas/experiences/thoughts about this? Anyone of you has followed a program that works?

[old] hennmart · Post by **[old] hennmart** » July 26th, 2005, 10:47 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ancho @ Jul 26 2005, 04:15 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Finally I have decided to give me the punishment of running a marathon next november (Maratón de Donosti, San Sebastián-Spain). Taking this into consideration, how should I prepare? Any ideas/experiences/thoughts about this? Anyone of you has followed a program that works? </td></tr></table> Hi Ancho, I wish you all the best with running and training for your marathon Hennie

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » July 26th, 2005, 11:01 am

Ancho, Runners World magazine used to publish (back in the Stone Age) a 13-week program that would probably fit your timeframe. I did a search for it, but it doesn't seem to be online anymore. It was a time-based program with 3 short (40 minute) runs on M-W-F, 2 intermediate runs on T-Th (60-90 minutes), and 1 long run (90-150 minutes) on Sat. I couldn't replicate it here, but the basic idea was that your maximum run time before hitting "the wall" at a given running pace is 3-4 times your average daily training time at that pace for the prior 6-8 weeks. The idea of the program was to increase the intermediate and long runs so that your daily average gets up to an hour or slightly more. That way, you should be able to run the 3-4 hours it takes to finish a marathon without hitting the wall. As your pace increases, you are closer to the 3 hour exhaustion time, so there is a delicate balance between pace and endurance. You should increase the intermediate and long runs to 90 and 120 minutes, respectively, over the first seven weeks by adding five minutes each week starting with the second week, and train at those times for the remainder of the program. This program was designed for beginners who simply want to finish the race, not competitive marathoners. The long runs top out at 120 minutes except in the 12th week, when you run 2-1/2 hours. This long run is designed more as psychological training than physical training. It shows you that you are capable of exceeding your prior training distance and getting close to finishing a marathon. Week 13 is a taper/rest week with easy runs. I did this program 18 years ago and it got me through my one and only marathon. There are lots of programs out there, so if this one doesn't suit you, you can probably find something else that will. The advantages of this one are simplicity and a short timeframe. Most programs that you find online or in books or magazines are in the 20-26 week timeframe. You don't have that much time until November. Good luck. PS. You will probably find that the program will cut into your rowing. This is a bare minimum program, but it is still very demanding. I had planned to keep up with my weight training while doing it, but found I simply could not recover well enough to do so. I suppose you could try to substitute very long rows for some of the runs, but I don't know how one would calculate what distances/times would be adequate substitutions.

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » July 26th, 2005, 11:28 am

Jeff Galloway is somewhat famous for his advice on Marathon training. He is all about success (and probably less about speed). You can see in his beginner outline here: <a href='http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/marathon.html' target='_blank'>http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/marathon.html</a> . This is not a big investment in time. I'm more of a rower (and sometimes runner) who is interested in the marathon (someday) and in reading about it, it seems most everyone would agree, "you have to have the weekly long run" and you have to build to it slowly. That seems to be the core to Galloway. In looking at Galloway's plan, over a 6 month period the runner learns to add miles to their long run every week. By race day you are not heading into some unknown at all. He is big into weaving walking/running, apparently to keep up the time on your feet and extending any running efforts into hours on the road. There is also plenty of encouragement to train aerobically on anything " without the pounding" and so the erg seems an ideal asset. Good luck.

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » July 26th, 2005, 1:36 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Jim Barry @ Jul 26 2005, 10:28 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Jeff Galloway is somewhat famous for his advice on Marathon training. He is all about success (and probably less about speed). You can see in his beginner outline here: <a href='http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/marathon.html' target='_blank'>http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/marathon.html</a> . This is not a big investment in time. I'm more of a rower (and sometimes runner) who is interested in the marathon (someday) and in reading about it, it seems most everyone would agree, "you have to have the weekly long run" and you have to build to it slowly. That seems to be the core to Galloway. In looking at Galloway's plan, over a 6 month period the runner learns to add miles to their long run every week. By race day you are not heading into some unknown at all. He is big into weaving walking/running, apparently to keep up the time on your feet and extending any running efforts into hours on the road. There is also plenty of encouragement to train aerobically on anything " without the pounding" and so the erg seems an ideal asset. Good luck. </td></tr></table> I agree. Jeff Galloway is a great resource. I've used one of the earlier editions of the Book on Running. The question is whether Ancho has enough time to complete a Galloway program before a November marathon. The only program I am aware of that is specifically designed for such a short training period is the one I outlined above. Maybe Ancho is in good enough running condition to jump in at week 9-12 of one of the Galloway programs. If so, then, he could still accomplish his goal of running the November race using on of the Galloway training templates. It is certainly an option to be considered. It seems to me that the limiting factor here is that Ancho has chosen a race that is only 3-1/2 to four months away. That's a short time horizon for a first marathon. It can be done, but I think it will require careful planning and strict adherence to the training plan.

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » July 26th, 2005, 3:14 pm

Good points. I realized my error after reading your first post but figured it was still good enough advice and Ancho's a smart guy.

[old] ancho · Post by **[old] ancho** » July 27th, 2005, 4:42 am

Thanks guys, I'm aware that there is not much time until november, but it's one of the earliest marathons in Spain, and on a later time, it would intefere too much with the preparation for the Spanish rowing championships (about june). I haven't been running a lot lately (about 300 km since january), but lately I am trying to make at least one "long run" a week, which started at about 10 km, up to 19 km this week, where I felt quite comfortable (although today my feet and legs still hurt a bit). I think I'm in a good enough shape to "jump in" some program even if it's a few weeks late... I have added your link to my "favourites", and will study it. There are some other usefull links around, and with my colleagues we will start screwing together somewhat of a program. For the next 4 weeks, I will be in the mountains with no ergs or boats (and no internet connection!) available, only running and cycling! I suppose running in the nature in a hilly surroundng will help. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Jim Barry @ Jul 26 2005, 08:14 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> (...) and Ancho's a smart guy. </td></tr></table> I agree with that, but there are at least 8 guys in our eight (including the coxswain), who think something else (specially those considering to run the marathon with me...)

[old] ancho · Post by **[old] ancho** » August 29th, 2005, 5:49 am

Just back from holiday, feeleng fresh and prepared! Finally, there are quite a few CEU-rem colleagues willing to run the Donost-Marathon, and we are putting together a "DIY"-Marathon programn together with our coach Mayo. If the results are worth of it and you are interested, I will post some information regarding the program.

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » August 30th, 2005, 10:53 am

Good luck Ancho. Please feel free to keep your progress updated here.

[old] ancho · Post by **[old] ancho** » November 6th, 2005, 7:09 pm

Just 3 weeks for the big "M"-day in San Sebastián, and I'm beginning to feel a bit nervous. Some information about my "progress": As on november 26th there is the Catalan Indoor Rowing Championship (CIRC? ), and on 27th a 15km head-regatta in Amposta, my CEU-fellows (very understandable) have given up the marathon idea, so I am sticking to it all alone... Today I have made my HM-test in a very nice race in Vilafranca del Penedés: 1:32,55, (277th position from about 1200 participants) which make me feel very satisfied and confident. I started quite smoothly, and made it to a (very) negative split. I took the time to count the people I was overtaking from km 12 onwards, and it was 134 positions! Some (very short) data about my trainig schedule: Running twice a week (usually mondays and thursdays), rest 3-4 "normal" rowing workouts, mainly based on WP L3 and 4, but adapting very flexibly due to work and family. Distances since september: OTW-rowing: 251 km Erging: 156 km Biking: 191 km Running: 334 km Total: 832 km

[old] ancho · Post by **[old] ancho** » December 1st, 2005, 12:42 pm

Well, finally did my marathon on last sunday. As I have already written, terrible conditions, which make me even more proud of having finished it. Target: finish, if possible sub 3:30 Real time: 3:30:05, HM at 1:43 4-6°C temperature, raining heavily abot half of the time and very windy (always in the wrong direction!) Arriving at the stadion of the local soccer team real sociedad was great in spite of the weather. Must be even much better with the sun shining... Meeting some running pals in the hotel room was great fun, about 25 people trying to take a shower reminded us of the Marx´s brothers in the ship room . Many special thanks to my new friends Danili, the great theoritian (2:59,56, PB), Sergi42195 (3:22, PB and Martyneyto (3:19,50, SB) All my rowing mates quitted the "Donosti-Plan", as on nov 26th there was the Catalan Indoor Rowing Championship (CIRC? ), and on 27th the head-regatta Tortosa-Amposta. I tied to stick to run mondays and wednesdays with increasing distances, and for the rest WP L3+L4 + OTW-Training as per the CEU-rem schedule, that all leaving some "spare" time for the family (I have 3 kids aged 4, 6 and 9). As a consequence, most of my running has been done at 22:00, after supper . Although my maraton mates told me this was not enough running, I was pretty sure to finish in acceptable conditions. I never really had the sensation of hitting the wall, but of increasing tiredness, so I was quite happy when I could stop after crossing the finishing line. As on the erg-marathon, the last 2,195 k were specially tough, even more as I was trying to go under 3:30, and seeing I was not going to match it! The other problem were my feet, which were completely soaked and aching. Regarding the recuperation, monday was tough, with heavy legs, but tuesday I could already have my first slow run, today I feel very good. Some details regarding marathons: - In ancient Greece, soldier Philipides ran from Marathon to Arthens to tell his king about their victory over the persian Army. The run took him 4 hours, and he died of exhaustion after delivering the message. - Therefore, strictly speaking, you may only say you have "made a marathon" if you have made a sub 4, otherwise you have just ran the marathon distance... - The original marathon distance is not exactly known. In the first Olympiades, the race was about 40k, it is only after London Olympics 1908 that the 42195 m (26 miles) were fixed. Curiousely it´s the distance between the Olympic stadion and Windsor Palace... And here go the facts regarding my preparation: 12 weeks preparation + competition week, rowing as much as possible, running as much as neceseary. Total running: 466 km (35,86/week) Total erg: 195 km (15,02/week) Total OTW: 370 km (28,46/week) Total erg+OTW: 554 km (42,62/week) The details of my training log: I don´t know how to attach an exel file, so it´s an image. I can froward you the file by email if you give me your adress (send me a PM) <img src='http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9883/d ... ept7bh.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4968 ... oct2rn.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3288/d ... nov3ik.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[old] Yeischkob · Post by **[old] Yeischkob** » December 1st, 2005, 4:15 pm

Way to go, Ancho! Congratulations on your first (footed) marathon. I've done one and only one myself (Rome, Italy, 2004). I remember thinking as I crossed the line, "Never again." But two hours later I was starting to think "Maybe..." I didn't finish under 4 hours, but then again, I didn't collapse and die from exhaustion, either!! That Greek soldier guy did the original "Fly 'n' Die!" I've done a couple HM's since then. Much more enjoyable distance! Impressive time--I remember reading your original post on this and wondering if you could do one on comparatively little running. Obviously, you did it. And you're already back on your feet again. Great job--it's an experience you'll never forget. Nick

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 1st, 2005, 4:22 pm

Good running, Ancho! How many strides per minute?

[old] johnnybike · Post by **[old] johnnybike** » December 1st, 2005, 5:51 pm

Nice run Ancho. Was your longest run 25Km in the build up? I think that is the longest distance I can see in that excel image. The last 15K it must have been hard John

[old] Polaco · Post by **[old] Polaco** » December 1st, 2005, 6:23 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ancho @ Dec 1 2005, 11:42 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Well, finally did my marathon on last sunday. As I have already written, terrible conditions, which make me even more proud of having finished it. Target: finish, if possible sub 3:30 Real time: 3:30:05, HM at 1:43 4-6°C temperature, raining heavily abot half of the time and very windy (always in the wrong direction!) Arriving at the stadion of the local soccer team real sociedad was great in spite of the weather. Must be even much better with the sun shining... Meeting some running pals in the hotel room was great fun, about 25 people trying to take a shower reminded us of the Marx´s brothers in the ship room . Many special thanks to my new friends Danili, the great theoritian (2:59,56, PB), Sergi42195 (3:22, PB and Martyneyto (3:19,50, SB) All my rowing mates quitted the "Donosti-Plan", as on nov 26th there was the Catalan Indoor Rowing Championship (CIRC? ), and on 27th the head-regatta Tortosa-Amposta. I tied to stick to run mondays and wednesdays with increasing distances, and for the rest WP L3+L4 + OTW-Training as per the CEU-rem schedule, that all leaving some "spare" time for the family (I have 3 kids aged 4, 6 and 9). As a consequence, most of my running has been done at 22:00, after supper . Although my maraton mates told me this was not enough running, I was pretty sure to finish in acceptable conditions. I never really had the sensation of hitting the wall, but of increasing tiredness, so I was quite happy when I could stop after crossing the finishing line. As on the erg-marathon, the last 2,195 k were specially tough, even more as I was trying to go under 3:30, and seeing I was not going to match it! The other problem were my feet, which were completely soaked and aching. Regarding the recuperation, monday was tough, with heavy legs, but tuesday I could already have my first slow run, today I feel very good. Some details regarding marathons: - In ancient Greece, soldier Philipides ran from Marathon to Arthens to tell his king about their victory over the persian Army. The run took him 4 hours, and he died of exhaustion after delivering the message. - Therefore, strictly speaking, you may only say you have "made a marathon" if you have made a sub 4, otherwise you have just ran the marathon distance... - The original marathon distance is not exactly known. In the first Olympiades, the race was about 40k, it is only after London Olympics 1908 that the 42195 m (26 miles) were fixed. Curiousely it´s the distance between the Olympic stadion and Windsor Palace... And here go the facts regarding my preparation: 12 weeks preparation + competition week, rowing as much as possible, running as much as neceseary. Total running: 466 km (35,86/week) Total erg: 195 km (15,02/week) Total OTW: 370 km (28,46/week) Total erg+OTW: 554 km (42,62/week) The details of my training log: I don´t know how to attach an exel file, so it´s an image. I can froward you the file by email if you give me your adress (send me a PM) <img src='http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9883/d ... ept7bh.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4968 ... oct2rn.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3288/d ... nov3ik.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> </td></tr></table> Nacho, estás enfermo......... no me habías enseñado esa hoja de cálculo (y por qué la tenías en inglés???) Nacho, you're sick...... you hadn't showed me that spreadsheet (and why in English?) I'm one of the rowing mates that prefered to race the head regatta