Lactate Accumulation And Drive Pattern

[[old] remador]

I've just been reading a brazilian abstract (scientific methods), in which the authors observated that the rowers in the studied pool which generated peak force before 50% of the drive part of the stroke had, after the test, greater lactacte concentrations than the ones who generated peak force after those 50%. As it is an abstract, I haven't got many more details, and since the study is written in portuguese, I think it would be of no use to copy it to this forum. Anyway, the authors say that that relation is not much significant, from a statistical point of view, and they would need a greater sample to go further. Anyway, it can be <i>very</i> significant if you're struggling for tenths of seconds...<br /><br />Just thought could be an excellent topic for discussion.<br /><br />AM

[[old] PaulS]

This would be interesting to discuss, did it mention anything about the actual skill levels of the rowers involved?<br /><br />I think it was Canoeist that had some information on this, something regarding the muscle types involved and how that can even be changed through training.<br /><br />This also may be another reason for divergent techniques for the Erg and Rowing, as the "late peak", though seen in rowing is not particularly promising for moving boat the quickest.<br /><br />Perhaps this is why Rowing is a standout as far as "Strength/Endurance" sport goes, the athlete doesn't have the luxury of going for what necessarily feels the best due to the technical/mechanical requirements that are involved. Erging is much more like variable high repetition weight lifting, Rowing is a bit more complex.

[[old] Chris-lbc]

This sounds like what all my coaches say which is have a light catch and build the power. But this is also because it helps get a better connection with the water<br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chris-lbc+Dec 20 2005, 08:57 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chris-lbc @ Dec 20 2005, 08:57 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This sounds like what all my coaches say which is have a light catch and build the power. But this is also because it helps get a better connection with the water <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The "connection" with the water has no need to be "built" if the blade is planted properly (at the instant there is 0 blade velocity relative to the boat, and to it's full depth prior to buildign pressure on the pin), it is connected, any delay is lost stroke length.<br /><br />That said, the common problem is to "row in" when trying to make a quick catch and in that case a coach will implore the rowers to do what you are saying, basically exchanging a less severe error for a more severe. The real solution is to just get it right, but that is also the most difficult.<br />

[[old] remador]

PaulS,<br /><br />In fact, the authors don't mention (at least in the abstract) anything about the rower's skills. The tests were 5' step-by-step maximal tests with 1' pauses for lactate collection. Tests made in C2 machines. Unfortunately, I can't find the whole text.<br /><br />The authors are from the Laboratory of Exercise Research of the High School of Physical Education of Porto Alegre, Brazil. <br /><br />I really agree, Paul, that rowing is a much more complex matter. AFAIK, rowing, eg, in a 1x or in an 8 will need - somewhat - different drives. As I was, mostly, a 4- rower, back in my 16-17 years, when I came back to rowing and started mostly single-sculling, I kept unbalancing or stopping the boat in the sequence of an "explosive" leg drive. Then, light was made: I wasn't rowing in a 4, I needed strength, but a different rate of force production. And so on...<br /><br />AM

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-remador+Dec 21 2005, 09:14 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(remador @ Dec 21 2005, 09:14 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I really agree, Paul, that rowing is a much more complex matter. AFAIK, rowing, eg, in a 1x or in an 8 will need - somewhat - different drives. As I was, mostly, a 4- rower, back in my 16-17 years, when I came back to rowing and started mostly single-sculling, I kept unbalancing or stopping the boat in the sequence of an "explosive" leg drive. Then, light was made: I wasn't rowing in a 4, I needed strength, but a different rate of force production. And so on...<br /><br />AM <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />There has been some data collection on the differences from 1x to 8+ and the associated force profiles. Near as I can tell, this has to do with the fairly small variations in the boat speeds across the spectrum, with the fastest boats having the quickest rise to peak. Of course I can't help but think that if you want to move a boat faster it is going to be accomplished by doing it in the way that the fastest boats are moved. All it takes is more endurance, strength and power. <br /><br />While we would have a bit more time and arc to deal with in the sculling boats, I can't think of why we should not use the full range available in the same manner as the shorter arc of a Sweep oar. The one factor that makes the largest difference seems to be catch timing, as if we are very quick on the drive, but don't have the blade in the water, all the more water is missed.<br /><br />1x and 2- (Slowest boats) are likely the ones with the most freedom to be had, but once we advance to a team boat (2x and up) the speed differences become quite small relatively, moving toward the faster force application can't help but move the boat faster. The 1x and 2- are unique, but in different ways, the 1x because there is no team mate to match, the 2- because of the offset oars, the bow has more of a 1x profile, while the stroke is more like the 4- or 8+ profile, just to keep the boat going straight without a lot of rudder input.