8 X 500m Strategy

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 8 2005, 01:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 8 2005, 01:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why do you need to involve a clock when you can set the PM2 for 30sec work and 30sec rest and just follow the countdowns?  [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />The clock is to ensure each departure time is the same.<br /><br />The pm2 is not accurate, because if you happen to miss the start then the monitor adds that to your time. Then it gives you a time for the 30s that's not accurate, and is considerably slower than you did.<br /><br />With the pm2 and departure times from a clock, if you miss a start it is no big deal as you can make it up next time.<br /><br />For example if you start one at :02s on the clock, the next one can start back on :00 again, i.e. one is 62s from start to start and the next one is 58s start to start.<br /><br />This is very easy and it is also exactly accurate.<br /><br />The pm3 is not accurate as it doesn't give you the correct time that you did.<br /><br />

[[old] ranger]

Yes, swimmers use pace clocks for intervals. Always have. Standard stuff. I was a competitive swimmer for six years or so.<br /><br />50m and 100m freestyle, plus relays.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Dec 7 2005, 09:36 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Dec 7 2005, 09:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You set the first interval to begin on the drive, then everything else to begin automatically after the previous 30" interval has elapsed.  ErgMonitor will begin timing the 30" work intervals on cue, whether or not you're ready to begin.  It took me a bit to get used to coming up the slide to the catch so that I started the initial drives pretty close to 0 rather than some tenths of a second into things.<br /><br />By 'timing the start' I meant adjusting my own internal rhythm while watching the countdown clock, so as to start driving at precisely the same time that ErgMonitor began recording the work interval.  <br /><br />One of the major factors affecting average drive length on this type of session is whether you finish the interval on a full stroke and handle down, or whether you pull through and end part way through a drive.  If your last, partial stroke is, say, 20 cm it shoots your average drive length as computed from the other 16 or 17 strokes to h***, and also may artificially distort your overall stroke rating. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yikes, NH. Just chuck the electronics. You're obsessed with numbers! But they don't matter a whit! Numbers won't get you anywhere.<br /><br />Rowing is much more essentially a matter of rhythm and relaxation at high work loads.<br /><br />Turn the clocks off and row all day.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] FrancoisA]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 8 2005, 10:38 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 8 2005, 10:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, swimmers use pace clocks for intervals. Always have. Standard stuff. I was a competitive swimmer for six years or so.<br /><br />50m and 100m freestyle, plus relays.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Ranger, how old were you when swimming competitively? Do you remember some of your times?<br />Just curious, as usual!

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Dec 7 2005, 06:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Dec 7 2005, 06:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you start early you kill yourself because ErgMonitor will start recording work data on the first drive after the clock says it's time to start the interval.  That means you have to complete your stroke and start another one for the program to begin counting your meters.  Your first pull will end up looking like 2:30 pace or some such.  This is a problem in a 17-stroke piece.  <br /><br />The PM3 does the same thing.  It's not possible to jump the start.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />That is easy to get around.<br /><br />Just drive with 2 seconds to go, recover, and you'll be ready to drive again when the monitor clicks on the zeros.<br />

[[old] onethirtyfive]

Does the fact that you have to start 'on time' with the Ergmonitor and the PM3 not simulate what happens in a race situation?<br /><br />Is it not a good idea to practice all aspects of 'racing' if that is your goal .... if racing is not your goal then it is not really an issue<br /><br />cheers

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 18 2005, 04:52 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 18 2005, 04:52 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Dec 7 2005, 06:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Dec 7 2005, 06:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you start early you kill yourself because ErgMonitor will start recording work data on the first drive after the clock says it's time to start the interval.  That means you have to complete your stroke and start another one for the program to begin counting your meters.  Your first pull will end up looking like 2:30 pace or some such.  This is a problem in a 17-stroke piece.  <br /><br />The PM3 does the same thing.  It's not possible to jump the start.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />That is easy to get around.<br /><br />Just drive with 2 seconds to go, recover, and you'll be ready to drive again when the monitor clicks on the zeros. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Unless you can produce a drive that's <i>exactly</i> 2 seconds long, that won't do anything to solve the problem of starting the first work drive precisely as the work interval starts. <br /><br />For example, suppose your target is r34, 1:30 pace. I'll make it easy and say that you have a 1-1 drive/recovery ratio.<br /><br />Each stroke will take you 1.76 seconds. Start a drive with 2 seconds to go, pull a stroke at exactly 34, and you will start a second drive with .24 seconds to go. You will finish your second stroke 1.52 seconds into the work interval. You will finish the first stroke that the monitor will record as such 3.28 seconds into the work interval. <br /><br />The monitor will now tell you you've pulled that stroke at r18. <br /><br />Moreover, pace will be calculated on the basis of flywheel revolutions over those first 3.28 seconds. 1.76 seconds of that will be recovery. Only 1.52 seconds of that will be drive. Your drive/recovery ratio will look like 1:1.15 instead of 1:1, and even if you have instant acceleration at the catch, you will cover only 14.87m over your stroke instead of the expected 17.22m. The fastest split the monitor can possibly return for your first pull is 1:50.3. In practice your acceleration at the catch will be sluggish, and the monitor will probably tell you your first stroke is at something like a 2:05 pace. <br /><br />As onethirtyfive suggests, this is only a problem if you're racing, or simulating racing starts, or (as I was) doing short pieces where funky first strokes materially will affect numbers you may be tracking.

[[old] Chris-lbc]

Has any body noticed that if you start a few stroke early while you are still in the rest time the first two splits are about 20 seconds lower than they should be making the time much faster

[[old] Pete Marston]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pete Marston+Nov 28 2005, 07:57 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Pete Marston @ Nov 28 2005, 07:57 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I did this session today for the first time in quite a while, 1:32.4, 1:32.4, 1:32.4, 1:32.4, 1:32.5, 1:32.5, 1:32.4, 1:31.9<br />Ave = 1:32.36<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />3 weeks have passed, so it was time to do this workout again today:<br />1:32.2, 1:32.1, 1:32.0, 1:31.9, 1:31.7, 1:31.6, 1:31.6, 1:31.5<br />Ave = 1:31.8<br /><br />A pretty good improvement in 3 weeks.<br /><br />Chris-lbc - I take it you are training on a model C? Yes if you have the flywheel moving fast on a PM2 when the clock gets to zero you'll get a very fast first couple of splits, as the time for the stroke will be very short, but the wheel is spinning fast. Doesn't work like that on a PM3 though, so no cheating there.<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chris-lbc+Dec 19 2005, 02:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chris-lbc @ Dec 19 2005, 02:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Has any body noticed that if you start a few stroke early while you are still in the rest time the first two splits are about 20 seconds lower than they should be making the time much faster[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />I haven't used the pm3, but this makes sense that with a head start the first splits would be faster.<br /><br />Nav,<br /><br />The first stroke usually takes longer, so if you are going 34 spm then the first stroke would probably take longer than that to get going. However, the point is to take the first drive so that you are at the end of recovery when the monitor clicks on the "00"'s. <br /><br />You could even take 2 or 3 strokes before that, then be recovering into the "00"'s and get a huge running start on each rep.<br /><br />As I have said before, you can't do that with the pm2, as the pm2 starts when you do.<br /><br />Only the pm2 gives you the accurate times that you did.<br /><br />The pm3 doesn't.<br />

[[old] raymond botha]

Hey Pete , nice to hear you suffering along with the rest of us <br /><br />Started rowing on my Model D April this year and got staright into 60min and 21k rows. Had a days rest between them to recover and eventually did a pb for the hr with an average of 1.58.6 . I started getting depressed with the 2k times I saw on the forums and eventually found and started your plan beggining Nov this year just after I completed my first million meters.<br /><br /> The reason for the background is this . I've voted more pace vs long rests as tonight I noticed that I don't get to max HR on this interval (4x2k and 5x1500 different story ..) but find strength the limiting factor or is it the fear or a lactic acid seizure .<br /><br />Does this make sense ?<br /><br />Regards<br />Ray

[[old] raymond botha]

One other thing guy's , does anyone else get hoarse fromthese intervals. I often finish and find when I open my mouth very little sound comes out . Never had this from doing long rows

[[old] Pete Marston]

Hi Ray,<br /><br />I wouldn't worry about getting to max HR on the intervals, that's really not necessary. All you want to look for on these speed intervals is a continual improvement each time, even if by only 0.1 on the average pace. As long as you get that (and you should only doing each session once every 3 weeks) you're going in the right direction.<br /><br />How well do you warm up for the intervals? For me, warm ups are inversely proportional to the work effort, eg I do more warm up the faster I'll be rowing. I'm not into mega long warm ups like some people, so the most I do is around 2k, which would be for these speed intervals. For the longer intervals more like 1k - 1.5k, and as little as 500m for the long distance pieces.<br /><br />I don't get a problem in training with a bad throat, but then I row in a hot, stuff, un-airconditioned gym. In races where there's aircon I get that after a 2k though.<br /><br />Pete

[[old] raymond botha]

Thanks Pete,<br /><br />I currently use an odd warmup but which just feels right for me. I have this theory that I need to progressively experience race pace as well as body temprature for the coming interval. I do 3500m total warmup: at the end of each 500 I gradually increase the duration of the target 500 pace eg 1.39 though I make sure not to go on longer at this pace than 200m . Then I go as slow as I feel I should so I can recuperate by the next 500m increment ie 1000 ,1500m . My last hard pull is at 3000m so by 3500 I've relaxed enough to start my 8x500m.<br /><br />I feel the need to do this to prevent the shock of pulling so hard . My whole life I have only done distance work (mostly cycling) and am not used to sprinting type intensities . I would rather go longer than faster. Intensity training has been a revelation to me . I am actually now battling with my longer distances ,as though you don't experience the same endorphin type state as when doing intervals. <br /><br />I also don't worry about warmups for long row's , who has the energy for that anyhow <br /><br />The biggest benefit of these intervals for me has been learning to pull a consistent pace . It seems my body is starting to feel the pace more now which is really exciting and in a way more relaxing , especially mentally.<br /><br />Hope your training is going well.<br /><br />Ray