Concept 2 - Loose Foot Straps

[JaapvanE]

Net is no efficiency benefit from pulling up on pedals, and pros don't do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUEaN9FKGLE Controlled testing is killing what I knew about cycling. Lower pressure, wider tires are faster on anything except smooth wood tracks and clipless pedals are only good to keep your feet from falling off the pedal sprinting, not much else.

Cool, that indeed breaks some ideas I used to have. So pulling with the legs is a sign of bad tecnique both in rowing and cycling then. Has some nice symmetry there.

[Sakly]

There is no need for such mechanical food hold-down as your foot should never lift to loosen the straps.
The straps are a kind of ensurance/security in case of something going wrong, but typically they "do no job". So such bigger mechanical stuff will be more expensive without need.

Others here have mentioned the need, with foot straps, to take another turn with the loose end to prevent loosening. With my mechanical foot hold down that fussy step is eliminated. Also, some cross-fit members have said that my quick-release, one-hand-operation foot hold down would be great for use in their circuit training, in which they move quickly from one station to another. Finally, it looks better than straps, presenting a clean, functional appearance. The mechanical foot hold down is better than straps. Concept 2 does not have the best solution for everything.

Loosen/tighten straps takes 2-3s for me using both hands, that shouldn't be to much for a circuit training (which I often do).
I have not claimed that c2 has the best solution. I claimed that they use the cheapest but fully functional solution with no need to upgrade to a bigger mechanical stuff like shown by your pic as it has no job if you are rowing with proper technique.

[Slidewinder]

Sakly,
If it is proper technique to row with no footstraps then why do OTW rowers not do it?
If you like to wrap the loose end of the straps around to keep them secure and refuse to call that an equipment defect, that's fine. Others don't share your opinion. The mechanical foot hold-down I designed and built is better than straps, both functionally and aesthetically. Of course it would be more expensive, but most people don't mind paying more for something that works properly and looks good too.

[Sakly]

Sakly,
If it is proper technique to row with no footstraps then why do OTW rowers not do it?
If you like to wrap the loose end of the straps around to keep them secure and refuse to call that an equipment defect, that's fine. Others don't share your opinion. The mechanical foot hold-down I designed and built is better than straps, both functionally and aesthetically. Of course it would be more expensive, but most people don't mind paying more for something that works properly and looks good too.

I did not write that it is proper technique to row without straps. I wrote that proper technique does not need straps as they do no job. They have a security reason so it makes sense to use them, but not to actively pull back - this is flaw of technique.
And this is exactly the reason why they don't need to be fastened hardly around the feet, loose fit is enough.

Surely you (and others) are allowed to have another opinion on that (and other topics).
But you should read carfully and not interpret anything that I have not written.

[JaapvanE]

If it is proper technique to row with no footstraps then why do OTW rowers not do it?

OTW we rowed quite a high percentage without straps. Most skiffs we used had straps, only the high end boats that the olympic team members used had more advanced systems by default. But even they had to do considerable time without, to prevent bad habits developping.

If you like to wrap the loose end of the straps around to keep them secure and refuse to call that an equipment defect, that's fine. Others don't share your opinion. The mechanical foot hold-down I designed and built is better than straps, both functionally and aesthetically.

I can get on my rower and step on top of the straps without issue. Their small and won't get in the way no matter how bad my foot moves even when people severely overcompress or slip their foot.

And I hate to call your baby ugly, but it isn't that aesthetically pleasing to me. It adds a bulky bit to a smooth line. And it is the place where my lay down my phone when preparing/closing the training in ErgZone and EXR. It is the only place that is easily reached and flat enough.

[Slidewinder]

Sakly,
Nevertheless, the necessity of wrapping the loose ends of the straps around to keep them from loosening is an equipment defect, which Concept 2 has chosen not to correct. With my design I did correct that defect. I know that for you and others here it is heresy to admit that the C2 rowing ergometer has any defect, however small. It is even more heretical for you to admit that someone else has a better idea than Concept 2. I suggest you liberate yourself from such groupthink. I know that it will be difficult for you to find the courage, but go ahead, say out loud what you know in your heart to be true: Slidewinder, you're mechanical foot hold down is excellent, and the C2 footstraps are crap.

[Slidewinder]

JaapvanE,
But all of those boats have straps, or a means to secure the foot to the footrests, and if so equipped, it is a reasonable expectation that those foot securing means actually work when they are used. The C2 straps don't work. They come loose, as many here have complained. My foot hold down does work. It works with one hand. No fussing with this strap and that strap. Your feet go in and come out with a snap of the lever. Simple, effective, secure. You don't find it aesthetically pleasing? Of course you don't. You don't like it because I designed it. If C2 designed it, you would praise it effusively.

[JaapvanE]

But all of those boats have straps, or a means to secure the foot to the footrests, and if so equipped, it is a reasonable expectation that those foot securing means actually work when they are used. The C2 straps don't work. They come loose, as many here have complained.

Which is an extremely clear sign the recovery is way too aggressive. An issue I suffered from myself as well (which actually prevented me from booking any success in a real boat), but I corrected by rowing strapless for months. As straps getting loose are a sign of poor technique, it should be fixed by better technique, not with stronger straps or clamps. That is fixing the wrong side of the equation.

You don't find it aesthetically pleasing? Of course you don't. You don't like it because I designed it. If C2 designed it, you would praise it effusively.

First of all, I have plenty of valid constructive criticism on C2, so I consider this kind of positioning as a mindless fanboy offensive. As the lead developer of the Open Rowing Monitor physics engine, I not only have valid criticism on their monitor, the way they modelled the physics (which is independently verified by several university studies) and record metrics, but I also provide a solution that either C2 can implement to improve their own monitor or people can just use with $15 in electronics and a Raspberry Pi by downloading the application. I am actively helping other developers put ORM variants with even cheaper hardware on their rowers (with some great results as some of these guys really rock). And it all started because I bought a NordicTrack rower and a friend of mine a water rower. So NO, I'm not liking stuff just because C2 designed it, far from it.

If C2 designed this, I would tell them that they screwed up big time. And as the developer of the C2 app can attest to: I'm a vocal customer and quite critical of stuff C2 develops. A clamp is too complex, bulky and to me it looks like a injury hazard even (or especially) when not used. I'm a firm believer of "less is more", and to me, the straps are almost overkill to begin with. Although I can follow Carl's idea that straps should stay loose and you only use them as a safety net might the chain break. But they are soft objects that are not anywhere close to (untrained) people's moving legs and arms at very intense moments.

[Sakly]

Sakly,
Nevertheless, the necessity of wrapping the loose ends of the straps around to keep them from loosening is an equipment defect, which Concept 2 has chosen not to correct. With my design I did correct that defect. I know that for you and others here it is heresy to admit that the C2 rowing ergometer has any defect, however small. It is even more heretical for you to admit that someone else has a better idea than Concept 2. I suggest you liberate yourself from such groupthink. I know that it will be difficult for you to find the courage, but go ahead, say out loud what you know in your heart to be true: Slidewinder, you're mechanical foot hold down is excellent, and the C2 footstraps are crap.

As I see no problem in loose foot straps it is no issue to be corrected in my point of view. I am a noob in terms of rowing - started this year January. But even in my first HM 3 weeks on the erg my straps had the same position as in the beginning. So why using an extra strong mechanical foot hold-down if not needed at all?
If it would be an issue I would tell. But it is not so no need to identify it as one or talk about heresy.

If it is such a big issue for you, you should double check your rowing technique.
Or are you fishing for compliments as you have invented such an overwhelming needful part for a c2 which is full of defects (if I read through different threads you attend).

[Slidewinder]

jaapvanE,
Are you suggesting that C2, in its engineering brilliance, deliberately designed the foot straps to come loose in order to serve as an indicator of poor technique? Ho Ho.
You write that my mechanical foot hold down is an injury hazard. Sure it is. Another Ho Ho.
You present yourself, not as a mindless C2 groupie, but as a technically astute vocal critic of Concept 2. Is that so? Well, Mr. Vocal Critic of Concept 2, let us hear some vocal criticism of why the C2 Dynamic does not provide the same quality of OTW feel as the Model D on slides. Let us hear, Mr. Vocal Critic of Concept 2, you who are so concerned about injury hazards, why so many users of the C2 rowing erg report wrist and arm injuries.

As I wrote to Sakly, I suspect you too would be singing the praises of the mechanical foot hold down if Concept 2 had designed it instead of me. Unfortunately, Concept 2 is no longer capable of designing such a thing. C2 ran out of ideas years ago - decades ago. C2, in its history, has had two big ideas: 1) Vaned flywheel resistance for a rowing machine; 2) Self-calibrating monitor (drag factor). C2 has been riding those two ideas for more than thirty years, but through a carefully nurtured marketing mythology has maintained a public perception that it remains an innovative company. Do you agree? I'm sure you do, because you are a Vocal Critic of Concept 2.

[JaapvanE]

jaapvanE,
Are you suggesting that C2, in its engineering brilliance, deliberately designed the foot straps to come loose in order to serve as an indicator of poor technique?

I did not say that. But I can inmagine that in an engineering team the discussion is held if the straps require improvement, just to be shot down by people with the argument it is a sign of poor technique and thousands of boats also use it OTW.

The rest of your response clearly indicates that there is no decent discussion to be had with you. You clearly have an issue with C2 and you clearly can't handle any type of comments or concerns. As I rather spend my time constructively I'll skip your negative garbage.

[jackarabit]

Don’t feed the blamoloser and it will go away.

[Tsnor]

... The foot straps always come loose. ...

Check the routing of the straps in the buckle. I've never used an erg where the foot stretcher belt slipped once tightened, even old ergs.

Routing instructions with right way and wrong way. Wrong way slips even at light pressure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuboW7dlVtQ

[MartinSH4321]

... The foot straps always come loose. ...

Check the routing of the straps in the buckle. I've never used an erg where the foot stretcher belt slipped once tightened, even old ergs.

Routing instructions with right way and wrong way. Wrong way slips even at light pressure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuboW7dlVtQ

+1
Even after a 100m TT my straps are as tight as at the start

[Slidewinder]

Thankyou JaapvanE. You are a self-proclaimed "vocal critic of Concept 2" who, in reality, sings unbroken praise of C2. In typical C2 groupie fashion you always blame the user rather than the C2 equipment. Foot straps come loose? Must be poor technique. Wrist and elbow injury? Must be poor technique. Also typical, if anyone dares to point out that the fault is with the equipment and not the user, you dismiss this as "negative garbage", and dismiss the truth-speaking critic as having "an issue with Concept 2".