Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

[GlennUk]

So.... I rowed a century today. .... and I finished out at a 2:09 pace. 7:42:33.

Absolutely stunning Elizabeth - very well done and all at a very impressive pace. I did my annual HM today. I was nearly a minute slower than I was last year, which itself was slower than the year before, and now everything hurts. You did effectively 5 of them back to back. I just can't fathom how that's even possible....

Come on Mike, the water's lovely, you know you can swim

[Elizabeth]

FragAndClear, Mike - Thank you!

Just to be clear, I didn't row at an average 2:09, I finished the last 1500 out at that pace. With the breaks, the one-handed rowing for fueling, and the occasional slump, my average pace was closer to 2:19. The record fastest time for women my age is right at 7 hours, which is a 2:07 pace overall - that feels inconceivable.

Very well done again, and I've just realised that you did that very good 3k, 2k, 1k session recently too.

Nevermind the physical recovery, be prepared for a mental slump too. When you achieve something so momentous, you can very easily lose focus and motivation. I have experienced it, and I've seen it many times from others too, but it's just another thing to be prepared for and to accept it whilst it lasts.

I usually bounce back from a good interval session like that after some good sleep and an easy day, and managed back-to-back days with hard efforts with a 2k race and the first Row'd Royalty 2022 challenge in February, but I can tell this recovery will be in a different ballpark. We'll see how things go, and I'm not planning on anything long or hard for a while.

Stu, you have a lot of great advice and clearly know what you're talking about. I'll be prepared for a mental slump.

[Dangerscouse]

Stu, you have a lot of great advice and clearly know what you're talking about. I'll be prepared for a mental slump.

When I decided to do the ultra distances I had hardly anyone to ask for advice, apart from Joe80 who really helped with some comments, so I resolved to gather as much information as I could and really analyse what works, and what doesn't, at for me anyway.

Ever since I've manged to pick some other pieces of advice and information which have all helped give me a decent base of knowledge with which to help others. I made the mistakes so others didn't have to!!

[aussie nick]

So.... I rowed a century today. I'm really proud to finish with a solid effort. I'm going to take a few days off and then will go back to focusing on shorter distances for a while.

My general strategy was to settle in at a heart rate of around 135-140, which came out to a pace around 2:09. (Max I've seen in training is 182, and most of my recent marathon was in the 145-150 range.) I took my first break 30k in, and a second break at 50k in. At this point I had some heart rate drift into the 140s. I was able to sustain that for marathon and so I continued holding the pace. Things started getting really challenging, and my perceived effort was all over the place - I would have some strokes at 2:25 that felt really hard, and then later strokes at 2:05 that felt fine and I'd tell myself I needed to slow down. Netflix lost connection around my break at 65k, so I switched to music, which kept also losing connection. I called my husband to come and deal with rebooting the router because I really did not think I could handle 35k of rowing with nothing but my thoughts and the swishing of the fan. I also noticed that my form was slipping and my rate kept increasing, so I started doing a focused 10 strokes at 22spm every 1k. Hitting familiar territory with 2x,xxx on the PM was a welcome sight and gave me a boost. Another break at 80k, after which my pace really started slipping. I wasn't surprised but it was hard mentally. Final break at 90k. Seeing the remaining meters tick down to 4 digits felt like it should feel great but I was struggling. I was hoping to pick it up some at the end and had a few exuberant strokes with 2k left at 2:02 but there was no way I was holding that, and I finished out at a 2:09 pace. 7:42:33.

I thought you all were crazy with the butt slapping but it was amazing the difference that it made doing that on the breaks. I also stretched my hip flexors and glutes each time. The breaks made a big impact on average pace but I don't think I could have managed without them.

I went through 2L water, 3L Gatorade, and managed to lose 4.5 lb. I ate a couple of bananas, Clif bars, and my favorite of the day - peanut butter filled pretzels. The saltiness was great, and they settled much better than the sweet stuff. My 7 year old hung out with me for 5-10k at one point and was also a fan of the pretzels. I resupplied on the breaks, and did a fair amount of one-handed rowing. The Concept2 log graph is the noisiest looking one of mine I've ever seen.

The chafing and blisters are bad. I tried a different sports bra and it was worse.

Final verdict - this is the hardest row that I've done. I am glad I did it. Not sure about a second one.

incredible Elizabeth - well done!

time to add some new times to your signature too!

[winniewinser]

So.... I rowed a century today. I'm really proud to finish with a solid effort. I'm going to take a few days off and then will go back to focusing on shorter distances for a while.

My general strategy was to settle in at a heart rate of around 135-140, which came out to a pace around 2:09. (Max I've seen in training is 182, and most of my recent marathon was in the 145-150 range.) I took my first break 30k in, and a second break at 50k in. At this point I had some heart rate drift into the 140s. I was able to sustain that for marathon and so I continued holding the pace. Things started getting really challenging, and my perceived effort was all over the place - I would have some strokes at 2:25 that felt really hard, and then later strokes at 2:05 that felt fine and I'd tell myself I needed to slow down. Netflix lost connection around my break at 65k, so I switched to music, which kept also losing connection. I called my husband to come and deal with rebooting the router because I really did not think I could handle 35k of rowing with nothing but my thoughts and the swishing of the fan. I also noticed that my form was slipping and my rate kept increasing, so I started doing a focused 10 strokes at 22spm every 1k. Hitting familiar territory with 2x,xxx on the PM was a welcome sight and gave me a boost. Another break at 80k, after which my pace really started slipping. I wasn't surprised but it was hard mentally. Final break at 90k. Seeing the remaining meters tick down to 4 digits felt like it should feel great but I was struggling. I was hoping to pick it up some at the end and had a few exuberant strokes with 2k left at 2:02 but there was no way I was holding that, and I finished out at a 2:09 pace. 7:42:33.

I thought you all were crazy with the butt slapping but it was amazing the difference that it made doing that on the breaks. I also stretched my hip flexors and glutes each time. The breaks made a big impact on average pace but I don't think I could have managed without them.

I went through 2L water, 3L Gatorade, and managed to lose 4.5 lb. I ate a couple of bananas, Clif bars, and my favorite of the day - peanut butter filled pretzels. The saltiness was great, and they settled much better than the sweet stuff. My 7 year old hung out with me for 5-10k at one point and was also a fan of the pretzels. I resupplied on the breaks, and did a fair amount of one-handed rowing. The Concept2 log graph is the noisiest looking one of mine I've ever seen.

The chafing and blisters are bad. I tried a different sports bra and it was worse.

Final verdict - this is the hardest row that I've done. I am glad I did it. Not sure about a second one.

That is an amazing achievement....mightily impressive!!!...Congrats Elizabeth

[MPx]

Come on Mike, the water's lovely, you know you can swim

Ha ha! We all know the water's lovely for maybe 30 mins if we don't go mad Glenn. After that even paddling becomes an effort and my mind wont let me pretend that its not really hurting. You distance disciples are a breed apart....chapeau!

[GlennUk]

Ha ha! We all know the water's lovely for maybe 30 mins if we don't go mad Glenn. After that even paddling becomes an effort and my mind wont let me pretend that its not really hurting. You distance disciples are a breed apart....chapeau!

Stupidly, i am planning on having an attempt at my PB for 100m when I've done my next marathon at the end of this round of the plan im following. Then intend to have a proper go at the 100k, so one end of the extreme to the other.

I know what you mean about feeling good for the 30 mins, there's a line in the film Lawrence of Arabia, where Lawrence puts out a match with his fingers, and another character copies him and burns his finger. He says to Lawrence 'it hurts', Lawrence says it does, 'the trick is not minding', I think erging, at any distance is a bit like that, the not minding.

We all know that if we are trying our hardest it 'hurts' but we don't mind. Perhpas the odd thing is, we all find the pain of certain distances more acceptable than others, or thats how it seems to me, a 2k can be very uncomfortable for me, not the longer rows, or at least not in the same way.

[Dutch]

So.... I rowed a century today. I'm really proud to finish with a solid effort. I'm going to take a few days off and then will go back to focusing on shorter distances for a while.

Final verdict - this is the hardest row that I've done. I am glad I did it. Not sure about a second one.

Very well done, impressive stuff. Your second one is already brewing lol.

[DavidA]

So.... I rowed a century today. I'm really proud to finish with a solid effort. I'm going to take a few days off and then will go back to focusing on shorter distances for a while.

My general strategy was to settle in at a heart rate of around 135-140, which came out to a pace around 2:09. (Max I've seen in training is 182, and most of my recent marathon was in the 145-150 range.) I took my first break 30k in, and a second break at 50k in. At this point I had some heart rate drift into the 140s. I was able to sustain that for marathon and so I continued holding the pace. Things started getting really challenging, and my perceived effort was all over the place - I would have some strokes at 2:25 that felt really hard, and then later strokes at 2:05 that felt fine and I'd tell myself I needed to slow down. Netflix lost connection around my break at 65k, so I switched to music, which kept also losing connection. I called my husband to come and deal with rebooting the router because I really did not think I could handle 35k of rowing with nothing but my thoughts and the swishing of the fan. I also noticed that my form was slipping and my rate kept increasing, so I started doing a focused 10 strokes at 22spm every 1k. Hitting familiar territory with 2x,xxx on the PM was a welcome sight and gave me a boost. Another break at 80k, after which my pace really started slipping. I wasn't surprised but it was hard mentally. Final break at 90k. Seeing the remaining meters tick down to 4 digits felt like it should feel great but I was struggling. I was hoping to pick it up some at the end and had a few exuberant strokes with 2k left at 2:02 but there was no way I was holding that, and I finished out at a 2:09 pace. 7:42:33.

I thought you all were crazy with the butt slapping but it was amazing the difference that it made doing that on the breaks. I also stretched my hip flexors and glutes each time. The breaks made a big impact on average pace but I don't think I could have managed without them.

I went through 2L water, 3L Gatorade, and managed to lose 4.5 lb. I ate a couple of bananas, Clif bars, and my favorite of the day - peanut butter filled pretzels. The saltiness was great, and they settled much better than the sweet stuff. My 7 year old hung out with me for 5-10k at one point and was also a fan of the pretzels. I resupplied on the breaks, and did a fair amount of one-handed rowing. The Concept2 log graph is the noisiest looking one of mine I've ever seen.

The chafing and blisters are bad. I tried a different sports bra and it was worse.

Final verdict - this is the hardest row that I've done. I am glad I did it. Not sure about a second one.

Just - wow!!
Those who complete something like that, are amazing.
It's obviously a big, physical, and physiological challenge, but I think most of all a mental challenge
That is great pace to have kept up for such a long time.

David

[Elizabeth]

Thank you, Nick, Winnie, Dutch, and David!

It's over a week later, and I have bounced back pretty well. I just did what felt good last week, which included some slow runs and rows, and quitting a deadlifting session on Wednesday early when I felt like I wasn't bracing well. I was feeling pretty normal by Friday, and I was ready to get back to the hard stuff today with 8x500m.

Glenn, that's a great quote about not minding.

[faach1]

So.... I rowed a century today. I'm really proud to finish with a solid effort. I'm going to take a few days off and then will go back to focusing on shorter distances for a while.

Final verdict - this is the hardest row that I've done. I am glad I did it. Not sure about a second one.

Just seen this, nice one Elizabeth! Way to go!

[gilles13006]

Hi dudes!

Two friends and myself are planning to make a FM on December, so we begin to think about specific trainings.

We never did any FM so it is quite a challenge for us, since we have done yet 3 or 4 HM.


Firstable, for our trainings, i thought about like that for each month until the FM:

1rst week - 5k trainings*
2nd week - 10k trainings
3rd week - 15k trainings
4rth week- 10k trainings
5th week - 5k trainings + 1 HM
* 5k trainings are more "rest week" than real 5k for performance

To repeat every month.

What do you think about that plan?

Secondable, during the FM, from my HM experience, i am afraid of deshydratation and nutrition. What general advices would you give to me ? I tend to drink 2 or 3 times during my HM, which is i know not a good thing because i should be able to make a HM without drinking. I try to improve that by having a better hydratation all day, but i have issues to reach this goal. I am afraid that this issue becomes a real problem for my FM.

Thanks a lot and i apologize for my english.

Gilles

[Dangerscouse]

Hi dudes!

Two friends and myself are planning to make a FM on December, so we begin to think about specific trainings.

We never did any FM so it is quite a challenge for us, since we have done yet 3 or 4 HM.


Firstable, for our trainings, i thought about like that for each month until the FM:

1rst week - 5k trainings*
2nd week - 10k trainings
3rd week - 15k trainings
4rth week- 10k trainings
5th week - 5k trainings + 1 HM
* 5k trainings are more "rest week" than real 5k for performance

To repeat every month.

What do you think about that plan?

Secondable, during the FM, from my HM experience, i am afraid of deshydratation and nutrition. What general advices would you give to me ? I tend to drink 2 or 3 times during my HM, which is i know not a good thing because i should be able to make a HM without drinking. I try to improve that by having a better hydratation all day, but i have issues to reach this goal. I am afraid that this issue becomes a real problem for my FM.

Thanks a lot and i apologize for my english.

Gilles

Hi Gilles

I'd strongly recommend that you get comfortable with doing at least 30k. You're essentially training for the last 10k of an FM, so even 30k might not give you a proper idea of what to expect.

My main concern is that when it does start to get really hard, you'll not be prepared for it and it can totally derail your attempt if you're not. When you've encountered it before, it doesn't feel quite as bad, assuming you can manage your emotions, discomfort and mindset.

Hydration and nutrition doesn't have to be an issue. Keep drinking as much as you normally do, although you will possibly need to stop for a toilet break. Any change of routine will not be helpful, so unless it's done gradually and is established, keep doing what you usually do.

I always had 50/50 diluted fruit juice, with a big pinch of salt and teaspoon of sugar (glucose is absorbed quicker and speeds up fructose absorption). I also had jelly beans, bananas, a protein shake and plain water too.

[Tsnor]

Hi dudes!

Two friends and myself are planning to make a FM on December, so we begin to think about specific trainings.

We never did any FM so it is quite a challenge for us, since we have done yet 3 or 4 HM....

Secondable, during the FM, from my HM experience, i am afraid of deshydratation and nutrition...

Thanks a lot and i apologize for my english.

Gilles

Your English is excellent.

For training you want 1 day week hard and as many days a week as you can do rowing LONG SLOW at a pace where you can speak conversationally. This will build your aerobic capability. The one day/week hard helps. The long/slow is fundamental to building your aerobic capacity.

Critical is not doing the long slow too hard. You lose the adaptations you need if you go too hard. Elite distance runners, cyclists etc do 90% of their miles at a pace where they can easily carry on a conversation without breathing hard. If you watch one video for training watch this. https://youtu.be/MALsI0mJ09I If you are willing to watch more then look at the "base training" videos from this guy. https://www.youtube.com/c/DylanJohnsonCycling

Ramp your distances slowly, but build a bit longer each week. If you ease into it 20+K becomes an easy row.

For nutrition look into marathon running or distance cycling nutrition plans. It's worse to try to eat too much than nothing at all. There is a limit on how much your body can process - you don't want to exceed it. Do try your nutrition plan before the full marathon -- some people tolerate gels, etc., some don't. You don't want to stop with cramps. (this video is science heavy, but gives you the basics. Skip the first min or so, it's content free). https://youtu.be/2InF6nuTXzk

Good Luck.

[Elizabeth]

Hi Gilles!

That seems like a pretty quick ramp up from (daily?) 5ks to 15ks. You have enough time between now and December that you may want to consider a more gradual increase. For the more experienced rowers - conventional running wisdom is that you shouldn't increase by more than about 10% per week to avoid injury, is that the same for rowing?

In addition to steady state sessions of about 15k on weekdays like including a longer Sunday row to build a good endurance base and get used to the mental feeling of the really long rows. Concept2 recommends at least one 30k row prior to completing a full marathon. I completed one full marathon with a longest training row of a half marathon plus a couple of 20ks, but the one that I completed with multiple 30k rows in training felt much better.