Is Slower Faster For Light Rowers?

[old] mindthetruck · Post by **[old] mindthetruck** » December 17th, 2005, 2:42 pm

I'm fairly new to all this rowing business and was boasting of my 1:44 500m repeats to my wife, who then tried to explain to me (with the assistance of her coach) that HER 2:10 intervals (500m) were actually FASTER when her being some 40kg lighter than me was factored in.<br />Does this make any sense to anyone out there?

[old] Godfried · Post by **[old] Godfried** » December 17th, 2005, 2:59 pm

See <a href='http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... ht_adj.asp' target='_blank'>weight adjustment</a>.<br /><br />And there is also gender adjustment.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » December 17th, 2005, 3:17 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mindthetruck @ Dec 17 2005, 10:42 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I'm fairly new to all this rowing business and was boasting of my 1:44 500m repeats to my wife, who then tried to explain to me (with the assistance of her coach) that HER 2:10 intervals (500m) were actually FASTER when her being some 40kg lighter than me was factored in.<br />Does this make any sense to anyone out there? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No, it' makes no sense to anyone. (well, maybe to John Rupp, but "nuff said" there.)<br /><br />Now if she were to be doing 1:56 500m intervals (matching Stroke rates), there would be an argument that she could be similarly useful in an 8+, unfortunately it's a fairly weak argument, as it relies on giving her credit for power that she does not have in exchange for weighing less.<br /><br />OTOH, you doing 500M at 1:56 is the equivalent of her at 2:10 in the 8+ scenario. Once again, the rate would have to be controlled for, i.e. both of you matching.

[old] jamesg · Post by **[old] jamesg** » December 17th, 2005, 4:38 pm

MTT<br />If you weigh 100kg, then @ 1:44 you were producing 3.1W/kg<br />If your wife's 60kg, @ 2:10 she developed 2.7W/kg. <br />You can deduce what you like. There's lots of other factors to consider too if you want to: age, real weight, style, the fact that she was pulling for a longer time. As for deducing that women are horribly tough, we knew that already.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 17th, 2005, 5:29 pm

Truck,<br /><br />Check the PATT percentages in my signature file, that equalizes times across age, gender, and weight class.<br /><br />As JamesG has stated, watts/kg is an excellent measurement, being sure to include a 10% adjustment for gender. However, this doesn't account for age.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » December 17th, 2005, 5:47 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 17 2005, 01:29 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Truck,<br /><br />Check the PATT percentages in my signature file, that equalizes times across age, gender, and weight class.<br /><br />As JamesG has stated, watts/kg is an excellent measurement, being sure to include a 10% adjustment for gender. However, this doesn't account for age. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />John, PATT scores are nothing more than a manipulation that you found to make yourself feel better about your performance, why not just use the C2 Ranking Percentiles? Are you afraid that you can not make it into the 90th percentile?<br /><br />Of course you will say that a PATT 90, even though it's not even in the 75th percentile is somehow better than a 90th percentile score, i.e. "Slower is Faster based on PATT" <br /><br />Interesting world you live in.<br /><br />Please stop misleading people that have genuine questions.<br /><br />In any case, this person was not asking about normalizing scores based on anything but pace and weight, the only things that matter in a boat. I.e. The fastest lwt 90 year old on the planet isn't going to get invited into an Olympic boat because they don't have the power required. Well, I suppose they could cox.<br /><br />You are embarassing yourself. And frankly, I'm becoming embarassed for you. <br />

[old] lintonwilson · Post by **[old] lintonwilson** » December 17th, 2005, 6:39 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 17 2005, 04:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 17 2005, 01:29 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Truck,<br /><br />Check the PATT percentages in my signature file, that equalizes times across age, gender, and weight class.<br /><br />As JamesG has stated, watts/kg is an excellent measurement, being sure to include a 10% adjustment for gender. However, this doesn't account for age. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />John, PATT scores are nothing more than a manipulation that you found to make yourself feel better about your performance, why not just use the C2 Ranking Percentiles? Are you afraid that you can not make it into the 90th percentile?<br /><br />Of course you will say that a PATT 90, even though it's not even in the 75th percentile is somehow better than a 90th percentile score, i.e. "Slower is Faster based on PATT" <br /><br />Interesting world you live in.<br /><br />Please stop misleading people that have genuine questions.<br /><br />In any case, this person was not asking about normalizing scores based on anything but pace and weight, the only things that matter in a boat. I.e. The fastest lwt 90 year old on the planet isn't going to get invited into an Olympic boat because they don't have the power required. Well, I suppose they could cox.<br /><br />You are embarassing yourself. And frankly, I'm becoming embarassed for you. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />annnnnd there off!!!<br /><br />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » December 17th, 2005, 7:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(lintonwilson @ Dec 17 2005, 02:39 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>annnnnd there off!!! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I only there were a finish line...

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 17th, 2005, 7:15 pm

PaulS,<br /><br />I could have said gain 100 pounds of blubber and call that an improvement.<br /><br />Would that have made you happier.

[old] mindthetruck · Post by **[old] mindthetruck** » December 17th, 2005, 7:30 pm

Paul S, John Rupp,<br /><br />While I may be new to rowing I've a fair amount of experience in coaching and training.<br />First, let me thank all of those who have responded.<br /><br />It seems to me that the PATT results provide an athlete with a good estimate of his general fitness taking into account age, gender, event and weight class - even allowing for comparisons of fitness with other athletes in other categories. <br />Better yet, it shows that my wife and I have identical fitness levels (rowing) which has certainly smoothed some ruffled feathers!<br /><br />However, I was more interested in comparing how we might fare rowing together and for that Paul's figures seem to fit the bill (in relating it all to an 8+), though I would like to learn more about where the numbers come from.<br /><br />Martin<br /><br />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » December 17th, 2005, 7:41 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mindthetruck @ Dec 17 2005, 03:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>However, I was more interested in comparing how we might fare rowing together and for that Paul's figures seem to fit the bill (in relating it all to an 8+), though I would like to learn more about where the numbers come from.<br /><br />Martin <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It's a formula that C2 has come up with over the years. It doesn't seem to be far off the mark, but also assumes some undetermined skill level in a boat. I suppose if skill levels were equal the comparisons would hold. However we've all heard "Ergs Don't Float!". <br /><br />It sounds like your wife and yourself could have some fun in the 2x.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 17th, 2005, 7:59 pm

Hi Martin,<br /><br />Thanks much for your comments. <br /><br />I'm glad that PATT has been useful for you.<br />

[old] ljwagner · Post by **[old] ljwagner** » December 18th, 2005, 11:48 am

Martin: <br /> Get on the water, and enjoy. Equal power won't matter if you scull primarily for both exercise and enjoyment. Even if you do compete, respect that both are doing there best regardless of a power differential.<br /><br />Good health and long life to you both.<br /><br />

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