Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

[fragandclear]

Hello all.

I recall seeing on this forum (but I don't think it was this thread) a kind of "target pace" format.

I think it was based on a good 2K time of "X/500m", a 5K time would be "X+Y/500m", etc.

I am going to attempt my first FM in May, and I am wondering if I should focus on keeping HR down (similar to a UT2 session), or focus on pace.

Honestly I would be happy just to complete the distance, but I also didn't don't want to take all day or loathe the experience.

Any thoughts?

[Dangerscouse]

Hello all.

I recall seeing on this forum (but I don't think it was this thread) a kind of "target pace" format.

I think it was based on a good 2K time of "X/500m", a 5K time would be "X+Y/500m", etc.

I am going to attempt my first FM in May, and I am wondering if I should focus on keeping HR down (similar to a UT2 session), or focus on pace.

Honestly I would be happy just to complete the distance, but I also didn't don't want to take all day or loathe the experience.

Any thoughts?

A target pace for a FM? That's very difficult to advise on as the longer the distance the harder it is to understand how someone will react and/or be suited to the effort & stress.

HR is probably your best target to keep you going, but it's not infallible. I've struggled doing a long distance when my HR was only hovering around 80%. When you go past a HM things have a habit of unravelling and it's hard to forecast how you will cope. It's a very valid comment, that you're really training for the last 10k of a FM. If you aim for a UT2 type effort you should be fine.

If you wanted a pace to use, I'd suggest that 2k + 25 should be sustainable. You might need to slow down, or speed up, so don't think that this is set in stone.

Mental fortitude and good nutrition/ hydration are the most important parts of it, as there will probably be many times you'd like to quit. Don't try and fight your way through them, and keep reminding yourself why you started. Good luck.

[fragandclear]

Hello all.

I recall seeing on this forum (but I don't think it was this thread) a kind of "target pace" format.

I think it was based on a good 2K time of "X/500m", a 5K time would be "X+Y/500m", etc.

I am going to attempt my first FM in May, and I am wondering if I should focus on keeping HR down (similar to a UT2 session), or focus on pace.

Honestly I would be happy just to complete the distance, but I also didn't don't want to take all day or loathe the experience.

Any thoughts?

A target pace for a FM? That's very difficult to advise on as the longer the distance the harder it is to understand how someone will react and/or be suited to the effort & stress.

HR is probably your best target to keep you going, but it's not infallible. I've struggled doing a long distance when my HR was only hovering around 80%. When you go past a HM things have a habit of unravelling and it's hard to forecast how you will cope. It's a very valid comment, that you're really training for the last 10k of a FM. If you aim for a UT2 type effort you should be fine.

If you wanted a pace to use, I'd suggest that 2k + 25 should be sustainable. You might need to slow down, or speed up, so don't think that this is set in stone.

Mental fortitude and good nutrition/ hydration are the most important parts of it, as there will probably be many times you'd like to quit. Don't try and fight your way through them, and keep reminding yourself why you started. Good luck.

Thanks Danger.

I'll aim for a consistent heart rate in the UT2 range and how for the best then!

I'll be lucky if my FM time is even near your 50K time...

[Elizabeth]

Paul's law can give a reasonable place to start if you want a target pace as a starting point, and then you can speed up or slow down as needed. Basically, if your half marathon pace is X/500, then your marathon pace could be in the ballpark of (X+5)/500. I sometimes use this as a starting point to pace new distances, and it served me decently for a marathon. I went into the marathon with a fairly good endurance base and an old (slower) half marathon time, and found I was able to pick it up a lot in the last 10k. I'd imagine that it would break down in the opposite direction if you haven't been prioritizing endurance work.

[GlennUk]

Hello all.

I recall seeing on this forum (but I don't think it was this thread) a kind of "target pace" format.

I think it was based on a good 2K time of "X/500m", a 5K time would be "X+Y/500m", etc.

I am going to attempt my first FM in May, and I am wondering if I should focus on keeping HR down (similar to a UT2 session), or focus on pace.

Honestly I would be happy just to complete the distance, but I also didn't don't want to take all day or loathe the experience.

Any thoughts?

I use the Eddie Fletcher marathon/100k plan which does give guidanc eonmpacing, based on HR values for a given duraiont g.e. FM/50k, 100k.

Those paces are 'determined' by paces routinely achieved for a given HR rate during training.

The underlying logic is that the training prepares you to row at a specific effort for the durioant of the piece, the pace falls out of tha.

In my case, the training indicated c.2:21.x for the marathon and about 2:30.x for the 100k. As it happened i rowed 60k and 116k so i wold not expect my paces to be the same given the training in both cases was for distances signfciantly less than i actually rowed.

I am not training to row a FM, 50K and probably a 100k later in the year, it will be interesting to see h ow my pace for a given HR varies in these coming event. My starting point will be my training of course and the paces ia chive.

[GlennUk]

Paul's law can give a reasonable place to start if you want a target pace as a starting point, and then you can speed up or slow down as needed. Basically, if your half marathon pace is X/500, then your marathon pace could be in the ballpark of (X+5)/500. I sometimes use this as a starting point to pace new distances, and it served me decently for a marathon. I went into the marathon with a fairly good endurance base and an old (slower) half marathon time, and found I was able to pick it up a lot in the last 10k. I'd imagine that it would break down in the opposite direction if you haven't been prioritizing endurance work.

I've not heard of Paul's law, however, i doesn't sound unreasonable given my limited experience of ering longer distances i.e. FM or longer.

Eddie Fletcher, Sports scientist advised me to add c.4 seconds to my 'target' pace moving from 100k to 116k but at all times to consider working to my HR.

As it was I maintained a HR value of a little over 80% HRmax for the duraiont of my 116k row but my pace slowed. The final pace was 2:46.x but that included stopping repeatedly due to severe PITA problems which added about 50minutes to my row.

Considering the actual rowing time my pace was c. 2:40.x - 2:42.x, clearly this assumes that other than the PITA i would (could) have rowed at the same pace without the stops.

If completing the distance is your primary goal then IMHO you need to work to HR note pace. Depending on your training, if you focus purely on pace and select the wrong pace, then you will possibly not complete your FM. If you train appropriately and focus on HR you will not only complete but will likley complete in the best time you can.

JMHO.

[missing1leg]

Been a while since I was in here.

I did a 50k (4h9m) on new years day and managed to finish that at almost the same average pace as I had my marathon about 4 months earlier. From there I started a training plan for a 100k which I completed yesterday for my season opener. My initial goal for the 100k had been 9h but some early set backs meant when I took a break with 30k left to go I'd have to have no more breaks and hold my pace to make the 9h so I just let go of that then. My final time for then100k was 9h6m27s, and I'm really happy with that!

I'm very glad I did these! I likely won't repeat them and will stick to marathons and under going forward. There was a moment with 40k remaining, staring down almost another full marathon to go when I wondered why I was doing this at all. The next 15k was really tough mentally, but once I hit the 25k to go mark there was no way I was not finishing. I took my last break at 10k left, closed my eyes and counted songs to keep a rough of idea of how long til it was over. I even managed the final 6-8 strokes at my 2k sprint pace!

I had a friend come over to keep an eye on me and refill my ridiculously expensive kool aid and make sure I drank it on a schedule. I didn't use a seat pad or anything extra. I row barefoot and just watch the monitor and listen to music. I had a fan blowing directly on my back. I changed shirts 3x and shorts once due to super saturation of sweat. After finishing, my hamstring was just fully dead and back and traps were sore. Here a day later, my hamstring and glute are tight but I can at least stand and sit without fully relying on my crutches to support me and back and shoulders feel basically fine again.

I finished just over 3 million meters in the 2021-2022 season which was my first full season (got the rower in April 2021). The century challenge looked like a crazy goal back in May of 2021 when I settled for a half marathon for the kick off piece. And now here a year later, the century still looks like a crazy challenge, but it's also one I've completed!

Thanks everyone who posts here. I've read this whole thread at least 3 or 4 times and am truly inspired by everyone's commitment and dedication and just general supportivenesa!

[MPx]

Absolutely stunning David - completely beyond my comprehension as to how that's possible. Bask in the glory for a while, you deserve it.

[Dangerscouse]

Been a while since I was in here.

I did a 50k (4h9m) on new years day and managed to finish that at almost the same average pace as I had my marathon about 4 months earlier. From there I started a training plan for a 100k which I completed yesterday for my season opener. My initial goal for the 100k had been 9h but some early set backs meant when I took a break with 30k left to go I'd have to have no more breaks and hold my pace to make the 9h so I just let go of that then. My final time for then100k was 9h6m27s, and I'm really happy with that!

I'm very glad I did these! I likely won't repeat them and will stick to marathons and under going forward. There was a moment with 40k remaining, staring down almost another full marathon to go when I wondered why I was doing this at all. The next 15k was really tough mentally, but once I hit the 25k to go mark there was no way I was not finishing. I took my last break at 10k left, closed my eyes and counted songs to keep a rough of idea of how long til it was over. I even managed the final 6-8 strokes at my 2k sprint pace!

I had a friend come over to keep an eye on me and refill my ridiculously expensive kool aid and make sure I drank it on a schedule. I didn't use a seat pad or anything extra. I row barefoot and just watch the monitor and listen to music. I had a fan blowing directly on my back. I changed shirts 3x and shorts once due to super saturation of sweat. After finishing, my hamstring was just fully dead and back and traps were sore. Here a day later, my hamstring and glute are tight but I can at least stand and sit without fully relying on my crutches to support me and back and shoulders feel basically fine again.

I finished just over 3 million meters in the 2021-2022 season which was my first full season (got the rower in April 2021). The century challenge looked like a crazy goal back in May of 2021 when I settled for a half marathon for the kick off piece. And now here a year later, the century still looks like a crazy challenge, but it's also one I've completed!

Thanks everyone who posts here. I've read this whole thread at least 3 or 4 times and am truly inspired by everyone's commitment and dedication and just general supportivenesa!

Superb effort David. Not many of us ever do a FM, and barely a handful try a 100k.

[fragandclear]

Been a while since I was in here.

I did a 50k (4h9m) on new years day and managed to finish that at almost the same average pace as I had my marathon about 4 months earlier. From there I started a training plan for a 100k which I completed yesterday for my season opener. My initial goal for the 100k had been 9h but some early set backs meant when I took a break with 30k left to go I'd have to have no more breaks and hold my pace to make the 9h so I just let go of that then. My final time for then100k was 9h6m27s, and I'm really happy with that!

I'm very glad I did these! I likely won't repeat them and will stick to marathons and under going forward. There was a moment with 40k remaining, staring down almost another full marathon to go when I wondered why I was doing this at all. The next 15k was really tough mentally, but once I hit the 25k to go mark there was no way I was not finishing. I took my last break at 10k left, closed my eyes and counted songs to keep a rough of idea of how long til it was over. I even managed the final 6-8 strokes at my 2k sprint pace!

I had a friend come over to keep an eye on me and refill my ridiculously expensive kool aid and make sure I drank it on a schedule. I didn't use a seat pad or anything extra. I row barefoot and just watch the monitor and listen to music. I had a fan blowing directly on my back. I changed shirts 3x and shorts once due to super saturation of sweat. After finishing, my hamstring was just fully dead and back and traps were sore. Here a day later, my hamstring and glute are tight but I can at least stand and sit without fully relying on my crutches to support me and back and shoulders feel basically fine again.

I finished just over 3 million meters in the 2021-2022 season which was my first full season (got the rower in April 2021). The century challenge looked like a crazy goal back in May of 2021 when I settled for a half marathon for the kick off piece. And now here a year later, the century still looks like a crazy challenge, but it's also one I've completed!

Thanks everyone who posts here. I've read this whole thread at least 3 or 4 times and am truly inspired by everyone's commitment and dedication and just general supportivenesa!

Incredible stuff David.

[DavidA]

Been a while since I was in here.

I did a 50k (4h9m) on new years day and managed to finish that at almost the same average pace as I had my marathon about 4 months earlier. From there I started a training plan for a 100k which I completed yesterday for my season opener. My initial goal for the 100k had been 9h but some early set backs meant when I took a break with 30k left to go I'd have to have no more breaks and hold my pace to make the 9h so I just let go of that then. My final time for then100k was 9h6m27s, and I'm really happy with that!

I'm very glad I did these! I likely won't repeat them and will stick to marathons and under going forward. There was a moment with 40k remaining, staring down almost another full marathon to go when I wondered why I was doing this at all. The next 15k was really tough mentally, but once I hit the 25k to go mark there was no way I was not finishing. I took my last break at 10k left, closed my eyes and counted songs to keep a rough of idea of how long til it was over. I even managed the final 6-8 strokes at my 2k sprint pace!

I had a friend come over to keep an eye on me and refill my ridiculously expensive kool aid and make sure I drank it on a schedule. I didn't use a seat pad or anything extra. I row barefoot and just watch the monitor and listen to music. I had a fan blowing directly on my back. I changed shirts 3x and shorts once due to super saturation of sweat. After finishing, my hamstring was just fully dead and back and traps were sore. Here a day later, my hamstring and glute are tight but I can at least stand and sit without fully relying on my crutches to support me and back and shoulders feel basically fine again.

I finished just over 3 million meters in the 2021-2022 season which was my first full season (got the rower in April 2021). The century challenge looked like a crazy goal back in May of 2021 when I settled for a half marathon for the kick off piece. And now here a year later, the century still looks like a crazy challenge, but it's also one I've completed!

Thanks everyone who posts here. I've read this whole thread at least 3 or 4 times and am truly inspired by everyone's commitment and dedication and just general supportivenesa!

Wow!!
Congratulations!
I can't imagine sitting on the machine for 9 h.
Good luck with your continued rowing and challenges.

David

[Tsnor]

..and counted songs to keep a rough of idea of how long til it was over.

LOL I do that too. "3 songs left " seems much easier than 15 minutes left.

[missing1leg]

LOL I do that too. "3 songs left " seems much easier than 15 minutes left.

I'm normally really content to watch the time or meters count down on the monitor, but it was too depressing after so many hours. My songs range from 3-4mins for most of my main playlist so it forces me to pay attention and gets out of my head a bit which I really needed to finish this.

Thanks for all the kind words everyone!

[GlennUk]

Been a while since I was in here.

I did a 50k (4h9m) on new years day and managed to finish that at almost the same average pace as I had my marathon about 4 months earlier. From there I started a training plan for a 100k which I completed yesterday for my season opener. My initial goal for the 100k had been 9h but some early set backs meant when I took a break with 30k left to go I'd have to have no more breaks and hold my pace to make the 9h so I just let go of that then. My final time for then100k was 9h6m27s, and I'm really happy with that!

I'm very glad I did these! I likely won't repeat them and will stick to marathons and under going forward. There was a moment with 40k remaining, staring down almost another full marathon to go when I wondered why I was doing this at all. The next 15k was really tough mentally, but once I hit the 25k to go mark there was no way I was not finishing. I took my last break at 10k left, closed my eyes and counted songs to keep a rough of idea of how long til it was over. I even managed the final 6-8 strokes at my 2k sprint pace!

I had a friend come over to keep an eye on me and refill my ridiculously expensive kool aid and make sure I drank it on a schedule. I didn't use a seat pad or anything extra. I row barefoot and just watch the monitor and listen to music. I had a fan blowing directly on my back. I changed shirts 3x and shorts once due to super saturation of sweat. After finishing, my hamstring was just fully dead and back and traps were sore. Here a day later, my hamstring and glute are tight but I can at least stand and sit without fully relying on my crutches to support me and back and shoulders feel basically fine again.

I finished just over 3 million meters in the 2021-2022 season which was my first full season (got the rower in April 2021). The century challenge looked like a crazy goal back in May of 2021 when I settled for a half marathon for the kick off piece. And now here a year later, the century still looks like a crazy challenge, but it's also one I've completed!

Thanks everyone who posts here. I've read this whole thread at least 3 or 4 times and am truly inspired by everyone's commitment and dedication and just general supportivenesa!

Excellent, i had the same 'issue' at c.42k left of my challenge, seemed like an age for the erg o count down, and then bosh it was over!!1 (well maybe).

But congrats on an excellent time.

P.S. bet you do it again

[Elizabeth]

David, that's truly phenomenal!

I have been dipping my toes in the world of endurance erging as part of the Concept2 Century/Marathon challenge, with a Marathon on Friday (just under 3 hours) and a 50k on Sunday (just under 4) and have some questions for the more experienced rowers in this thread. I realize that there will be a certain degree of discomfort on these long rows.

First, clothing - is there a way to know ahead of time what will cause chafing? My armpit is raw from a sports bra that I considered to be tested and proven okay - it's done fine for two 74-mile hikes. I also have unexpected thigh chafing from my shorts, and I didn't feel any rubbing while on the erg. Is this just inevitable, or is there a way to get ahead of some of this? Is this why David had multiple outfit changes?

Also, sweet things were starting to taste sickeningly sweet midway through. I forced myself to drink Gatorade plus water on the first day and the juice/water/salt mix someone else mentioned on the second day, plus banana, and like a third of a Gu (I couldn't keep consuming the Gu - it was awful). I tried a Clif Bar on the 50k which settled better than the other stuff. Are there good salty foods that sit well in your stomachs for these long events?

Last, not a question but a comment, the pace-based formula that I mentioned earlier broke down a bit for me. I rowed a recent half-marathon at a 2:00.1 average pace, and the marathon at a 2:06.2 average pace - doubled the distance, added 6 seconds to the pace (not 5). Both felt like very solid efforts. I did have to make a quick pit stop during the marathon that may have contributed to the slower overall pace.