Adjusting resistance - extending handle

[gvcormac]

How do you know this for sure?
How can the PM5 detect that the air drag has changed and by how much?

BikeErg has an angle sensor on the damper (that the RowErg and SkiErg don't have). So it can adjust for damper setting.

On the other hand, if you use your own damper (e.g. a towel) you can cheat.

[johnlvs2run]

if you use your own damper (e.g. a towel) you can cheat.

To clarify:
When any change is made to the cage, then the bike needs to be calibrated again.
If the bike was not recalibrated, then the result would not be accurate and would be cheating.
However:
If something was attached or removed in a permanent manner and then a calibration was done
then that would be fine. For example, the screen could be removed, and/or strips of plastic added
and tied to the top and bottom, and as long as the bike was recalibrated then that would be perfectly fine.

[gvcormac]

if you use your own damper (e.g. a towel) you can cheat.

To clarify:
When any change is made to the cage, then the bike needs to be calibrated again.
If the bike was not recalibrated, then the result would not be accurate and would be cheating.
However:
If something was attached or removed in a permanent manner and then a calibration was done
then that would be fine. For example, the screen could be removed, and/or strips of plastic added
and tied to the top and bottom, and as long as the bike was recalibrated then that would be perfectly fine.

Yes, but moving the damper setting is not cheating, assuming you have not otherwise modified the cage.

If you had, for examples, blocked the vents corresponding to certain damper settings, and then adjusted the damper, that would still be cheating.

[johnlvs2run]

Yes, but moving the damper setting is not cheating, assuming you have not otherwise modified the cage.

Moving the damper is fine. Please clarify what you mean by modifying the cage.

If you had, for examples, blocked the vents corresponding to certain damper settings, and then adjusted the damper, that would still be cheating.

All damper settings have the same inlets and outlets, so what you're suggesting would not be possible.

[gvcormac]

Yes, but moving the damper setting is not cheating, assuming you have not otherwise modified the cage.

Moving the damper is fine. Please clarify what you mean by modifying the cage.

If you had, for examples, blocked the vents corresponding to certain damper settings, and then adjusted the damper, that would still be cheating.

All damper settings have the same inlets and outlets, so what you're suggesting would not be possible.

I'm just following up on your speculation about ways to cheat. You are correct that it would be more difficult to cheat than I outlined. You'd need to cover the edged of each opening.

My main part was that you do not need to recalibrate when you move the damper setting. The PM5 knows how to compensate for that.

[johnlvs2run]

I'm just following up on your speculation about ways to cheat.

I see the problem now. You're confusing me with Nomath.
We're two different people. Read the messages on the previous page and you'll see.
Nomath doesn't even have a Bikeerg. Do you even use the rankings yourself or just wasting people's time.

You are correct that it would be more difficult to cheat than I outlined. You'd need to cover the edges of each opening.

Again, that would not work. Try it for yourself and you'll see.

My main part was that you do not need to recalibrate when you move the damper setting. The PM5 knows how to compensate for that.

Right. Which is what I have stated many times already in this and in other previous threads. Good grief.

[CaseyClarke]

Cheating is easy unfortunately. You can have the damper on any setting, let’s say 10, then cover the whole flywheel with a towel to cut off all the air. The physical pedal resistance will become super light but the PM5 can’t recognise this, so the on screen read outs with be much faster than the power you’re putting in.

Try it for yourself. Damper on 10 / 220 ish drag. Cover it with a towel, then give it a spin up. You’ll be below 1:00/1000m average without a great deal of effort.

Similar is true if you block some of the vents. Same effect but not quite as dramatic as covering the whole thing. The more you block up, the more the skewering of the score.

There’s a small % of false ranking scores which have been done from this method. Also, it can happen inadvertently, by having the BikeErg too close into a wall and that affecting the air into/out of the flywheel. I’ve made posts about this on the BikeErg page and we’ve had maybe a dozen posts in the last few years where this has happened and produced impossible scores.

[gvcormac]

My main part was that you do not need to recalibrate when you move the damper setting. The PM5 knows how to compensate for that.

Right. Which is what I have stated many times already in this and in other previous threads. Good grief.

You have missed my point, Charlie Brown. I was just qualifying my statement that calibration was maintained even when damper setting was changed.

On an unmodified C2, it doesn't matter what damper setting you use when you calibrate the BikeErg -- when you switch to another the calibration will still be valid. This is because the C2 knows from the damper angle sensor proportionally how much air will flow and therefore how much work will be done.

But if some or all of the inlets are blocked and you calibrate at damper level 1, the C2 will incorrectly calculate how much power is increased when you increase the damper setting. Similarly, if you calibrate at damper level 10, the C2 wil incorrectly calculate how much power is reduced when you decrease the damper setting.

[johnlvs2run]

My main part was that you do not need to recalibrate when you move the damper setting.

That is not correct You have to use the specified settings.
You must have never calibrated your Bikeerg or you would have known this.

But if some or all of the inlets are blocked and you calibrate at damper level 1, the C2 will incorrectly calculate how much power is increased when you increase the damper setting. Similarly, if you calibrate at damper level 10, the C2 wil incorrectly calculate how much power is reduced when you decrease the damper setting.

That is also not correct.
As long as the calibration is done properly, and nothing is changed after that, the calibration will be fine.

[CaseyClarke]

You guys seem to be arguing over the quick calibration verification and the full one.

For the quick one you can check calibration on any damper setting. It’ll usually verify calibration immediately. Occasionally it’ll ask you to do the full calibration.

For the full one, it’ll ask you to do three lots of pedal ups at predetermined damper settings. I think these are 1, 10, 8, 6, 3 & 2. After that is all done then calibration is verified.

[gvcormac]

You guys seem to be arguing over the quick calibration verification and the full one.

For the quick one you can check calibration on any damper setting. It’ll usually verify calibration immediately. Occasionally it’ll ask you to do the full calibration.

For the full one, it’ll ask you to do three lots of pedal ups at predetermined damper settings. I think these are 1, 10, 8, 6, 3 & 2. After that is all done then calibration is verified.

That may be true. Thank you for your input.

[gvcormac]

My main part was that you do not need to recalibrate when you move the damper setting.

That is not correct You have to use the specified settings.

You must have never calibrated your Bikeerg or you would have known this.

That's not what you said previously:

My main part was that you do not need to recalibrate when you move the damper setting. The PM5 knows how to compensate for that.

Right. Which is what I have stated many times already in this and in other previous threads. Good grief.

[johnlvs2run]

Whoops, I quoted the wrong one.

it doesn't matter what damper setting you use when you calibrate the BikeErg

The above is the one that is not correct.
You have to use the specified settings, 1 10 8 6 3 and 2. Otherwise you're not doing a full calibration.

You guys seem to be arguing over the quick calibration verification and the full one.

Good point.
The short one is not a calibration but just confirms whether the previous calibration still is valid.
If something on the cage had been changed, then the confirmation would fail.

[gvcormac]

We've probably beaten this horse to death.

Does the PM5 or some competition software force such a "full calibration" prior to certain trials?

The PM5 manual is not particularly helpful. It says,

"The BikeErg will prompt you periodically to confirm the calibration, including whenever you program a distance that is part of our Online World Ranking."

I guess "confirm the calibration" does not mean the same thing as "full calibration." What it does periodically (every million meters) uses only one damper setting.