Interpreting Workout Graph

[Pull]

On the training log what should I be looking for on the workout graph other than pulse which is obvious? My pace and SPM graph seem pretty variable even though I feel I'm consistent when rowing. I know they would go up or down depending on a change in effort/pace but they seem really busy. Is this because of the rest phase?

I'm getting back into rowing and focusing on my technique and pace around 22-24. What is a "good" graph when interpreting its meaning going forward and looking for improvement?

One question on HR. For example today the data reported a HR of 144. Is this an average? When I looked at my Strava chart it showed an average HR of 139 and maximum of 158. When cycling I like to monitor my average HR to stay in a certain zone.

[jamesg]

I know they would go up or down depending on a change in effort/pace but they seem really busy.

When rowing, none of the components of Power (Length, pull Speed, Force, Rating) are fixed by the machine, so Pace (derived from Power) shows variation from one stroke to the next; according to how well we hold them constant.

The HRs shown in the Log tables are as detected at the end of each split; the average shown seems to be the average of these. For more detail, use short splits, PM allows up to 50.

Ratios such as Watts/Rating and Watts/kg can be used as targets and quality control. HR climb and drop rates and the Watts - HR relationship can also help monitor progress.

The graph has the usual purpose of graphs, to give an at-a-glance impression of a large amount of data. For example, after a TT (or race) we can see immediately if and how closely we followed our plan. And repeat, or not, whatever may have been effective, or not.

[mitchel674]

Show us a screenshot example of your workout graph so we can directly address your questions.

[Dangerscouse]

One question on HR. For example today the data reported a HR of 144. Is this an average? When I looked at my Strava chart it showed an average HR of 139 and maximum of 158. When cycling I like to monitor my average HR to stay in a certain zone.

Don't rely on the C2 for HR info, unless you want real time info, as the HR results are just based on a moment in time, and there's no calculation regarding average HR. My average HR on Polarbeat is always less than the C2 average.

I don't know of any way of knowing average HR until afterwards and using a different app to calculate it. All you can do is use a HR range or a cap.

[Carl Watts]

The HR graph is the only thing I really use.

Very useful as a snapshot in the slope or amount of drift and basically for steady state rows how flat it remains when your HR matches the pace or workload requirement.

Very useful as to your level of fitness and for example if your first starting out the change can be very dramatic for the first 6 months with regular training. Not only will the max HR come down the graph will flatten off significantly. A "Good" HR graph is were its pretty flat but of course its all in relative to your pace. If your pace is slow the row will be aerobic and the graph should be flat after the initial climb.

The top line in the PM has the average HR for the row, there is nothing wrong with that to use for rowing in the various training bands.

I use ErgData with the PM5 and this is the only result that is uploaded to the Concept 2 LogBook as it contains the most information.

[dabatey]

The HR graph is the only thing I really use.

Very useful as a snapshot in the slope or amount of drift and basically for steady state rows how flat it remains when your HR matches the pace or workload requirement.

Very useful as to your level of fitness and for example if your first starting out the change can be very dramatic for the first 6 months with regular training. Not only will the max HR come down the graph will flatten off significantly. A "Good" HR graph is were its pretty flat but of course its all in relative to your pace. If your pace is slow the row will be aerobic and the graph should be flat after the initial climb.

The top line in the PM has the average HR for the row, there is nothing wrong with that to use for rowing in the various training bands.

I use ErgData with the PM5 and this is the only result that is uploaded to the Concept 2 LogBook as it contains the most information.

The C2 top line HR 'average' might be fine for a steady state row. However since the data is lifted from the end of a split it can be wildly out if you have variation in your exertion throughout a row. I did a Wolverine L4 earlier today and the top line average HR was listed as 150. Looking at the ergdata graph, the actual average once properly warmed up was actually approx 136-138, and if the first ten minutes or so (where I still wasn't warmed up properly so HR was climbing) were added in to the mix then the real average would probably have been low 130's. So C2 actually reporting over 10% high!!!!!

The only benefit I can think of the C2 method of working out average HR is that if doing a steady state it avoids the warm up portion, but it doesn't make it right.

[Carl Watts]

Nah its close enough if your comparing one similar row to another.

No need to get carried away its perfectly good for anyone other than an Elite rower.

Earlier rows are just relative to your current rows. Improvements for a beginner who just got off the couch will be dramatic you could see a drop of 20bpm or more off the peak HR over 6 months for the same pace and duration row.

Sure your analysis may get more defined if your chasing the last percentage point as an Elite rower but lets face it probably 90% of people in the general public don't even use a HR strap to start with.

The graph is great, even for intervals you can see the bumps and your HR recovery time.

[dabatey]

Nah its close enough if your comparing one similar row to another.

No need to get carried away its perfectly good for anyone other than an Elite rower.

Earlier rows are just relative to your current rows. Improvements for a beginner who just got off the couch will be dramatic you could see a drop of 20bpm or more off the peak HR over 6 months for the same pace and duration row.

Sure your analysis may get more defined if your chasing the last percentage point as an Elite rower but lets face it probably 90% of people in the general public don't even use a HR strap to start with.

The graph is great, even for intervals you can see the bumps and your HR recovery time.

I agree the graph is great. But the 'headline' average HR is way out. It's crazy that it can vary dependent on how you set up your splits. There's no need for it as the data is recorded and presented on the graph, so all that's needed is a little bit better use of that data for the table and an absolutely nailed on average could be presented.

I guess I just find it annoying to look at the table average, and then have to think 'wait a minute that can be way out' and then have to make an approximation from the graph.

[GlennUk]

All my trniang is HR managed/limited if you like.

The graphs are useful for seeing how consistent the HR is for a given piece when its repeated, especially the trend of course.

If i wanted to drill down further, then i wold download the data and determine the average values using the spreadsheet. I had noticed the 'oddness' of the 'standard concept values previously and as has been suggested useful to give one an idea of what's happening in a comparative sense.

[nick rockliff]

If you are training within HR capped zones, avg HR should never be needed.

[Joebasscat]

Graph seems pretty good to me, at least for steady state. I just looked at my last two steady state rows, each right at 70 minutes. The graph shows 131 and 132 respectively. I downloaded the files to excel and the average is within 1/2 a beat for each row. Seems to round up. Those are 5 minute splits. Suppose I could reduce those splits times and see if it makes much difference, but I have to agree with Carl on the SS point.

I also had some 40 minute L4 Wolverine work outs I could check out from last year. My data agrees the true average was 3-5 beats lower than advertised on the C2 graph. If I was that interested I wouldn't see it as a huge issue to download the workout and scroll.

I guess there is always a little room for improvement.

[Carl Watts]

Graph is plenty good enough, put your mouse on it and go sideways its logging HR every couple of seconds if your using ErgData.

Your splitting hairs if one row is 1 or 2bpm different, you can get that from a bad nights sleep or a change in the weather from one day to the next.

HR tracks perfectly the ambient temperature is now falling at 22-23C is great if we also hit a iow humidly day of 30%. My HR is already down from the highs of 28C to 30C rowing in the heat.

The only way to directly compare one row to another is to also log the temperature and the humidity in the comments for the row.

[Tsnor]

One question on HR. For example today the data reported a HR of 144. Is this an average? When I looked at my Strava chart it showed an average HR of 139 and maximum of 158.

As said above, don't use the PM5/ ergdata summary data for HR for anything. It's totally game-able. You want a high HR, hit the end of interval hard. You want a low HR, soften the end of an interval and hammer the start of the next. Generally for short intervals your max HR will not be at the end of the interval (where ergdata/pm5 captures it) but a few strokes into your rest interval, so you can't even use the data to see your max HR.

While erging I watch my HR in polar beat while looking at stroke date in Ergdata and on the PM5. After the erg session is over and uploaded to the C2 log you can get very accurate HR data by downloading the per-stroke data which includes the HR at the time of the stroke and includes rest strokes, but it's easier to use another tool like Polar Flow or (as you do) Strava.