Rod Freed

[old] Delilah · Post by **[old] Delilah** » December 5th, 2005, 7:17 pm

I posted this in general but got no replies (might be a bit impatient there) I know I don't look at general much so here it is again..........<br /><br /><br />Several years ago the UK newsletter carried information on the amazing distance times of Rod Freed. I recently had reason to refer to him in a posting and one of our UK forum regulars expressed the opinion that he simply didn't believe the times.<br />I must confess I always believed it must be true.because it was written in our newsletter.........does anyone actually know this man and even better confirm or deny these wonder performances........I'm beginning to wonder.<br />D

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 5th, 2005, 7:28 pm

I believe the times as Freed names his coach and gives his history at the Long Beach Rowing Association.<br /><br />Also I did his training for awhile. As a result, my distance times came way down and, although not nearly as fast as his, gave me a similar carryover from one event to the other.<br /><br />Freed's interview is about 2/3 down the page:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/news/newslett ... edition=20' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/news/newslett ... tion=20</a>

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » December 5th, 2005, 8:39 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 5 2005, 03:28 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I believe the times as Freed names his coach and gives his history at the Long Beach Rowing Association.<br /><br />Also I did his training for awhile. As a result, my distance times came way down and, although not nearly as fast as his, gave me a similar carryover from one event to the other.<br /><br />Freed's interview is about 2/3 down the page:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/news/newslett ... edition=20' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/news/newslett ... tion=20</a> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It doesn't look like he mentions a coach. The closest to that seems to be "I've borrowed extensively from what US swimmers do, from the book Interval Training by Mathews and Fox, and from Paul Wilson (e.g., I still try to do everything at a race pace). "<br /><br />A quick Google of California State University Rod Freed came up with this.<br />Economics, Dominguez Hills, Freed, Rodney, rfreed@csudh.edu<br /><br />Which isn't quite in line with the articles "a mathematics professor at California State University." Perhaps Mathematics and Economics are the same in the UK, certainly they are not, in the USA.<br /><br />This sample of the workout schedule reminds me of some of the things I would hear from some teammates in College:<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br /><b>Bold Items Added by me</b><br /><br />Monday and Thursday<br />-------------------------------<br />5-6 minute warm up - light paddle building to full speed<br />30 minutes - - distance averages between 8580 and 8650 metres <b>(1:44.9 – 1:44.0)</b><br />Seven minute rest<br />25 minutes - - distance averages between 7125 and 7175 <b>(1:45.3 – 1:45.5)</b><br /><br />Tuesday and Friday<br />-------------------------------<br />5-6 minute warm up<br />6000 meters - - times average between 20:35 and 20:55 <b>(1:42.9 – 1:44.6)</b> <br />Seven minute rest<br />6000 meters - - times average between 20:50 and 21:10 <b>(1:44.2 – 1:45.8)</b><br />Seven minute rest<br />4 x 600 meters on, 1 minute off<br />Four minute rest<br />4 x 30 seconds on, 1 minute off (to try to build some kind of speed) <b>(Apparently this is not working out for him, how can that be?)</b><br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm not sure why these guys would tell me what they were doing in training, but I could only respond in awe: "If you are doing that, you will be kicking everyones butt on the upcoming Erg test." - Strangely enough, they never were very impressive and never made the Varsity boats.<br /><br />So while I have no idea if this guy is for real or not, and if my teammates in college were also telling the truth I suppose it's well possible that he is. I've never witnessed anyone who could hold a 1:43 for a 6k as a matter of a "regular workout" and not be at a 1:36 for a 2k time trial, if not faster. I've heard as little as 5 seconds in pace difference for the 6k to 2k, but never as little as 4, especially when talking about a highly trained athlete involved in Rowing.<br /><br />I believe Joan Van Blom is affiliated with Long Beach Rowing Assoc. so may even know the man.<br /><br />I would suggest that if he is for real, he has some unique physiology that is not going to make his training applicable to very many in the overall population of athletes. It apparently has failed to help him in the official racing distances of 2500m and 2000m that have been used in the Indoor competition world, so I suppose your overall goal would determine if it would even be worth considering.<br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 5th, 2005, 8:46 pm

"he began to run and lift weights and at the University of Virginia in the late 60's and early 70's, took up rowing <b>where he fell under the wing of Paul Wilson, a successful US sculler</b>. "He insisted that we do all workouts at a race pace ('you'll perform like you practice, and "long-slow distance" teaches you to go slow').""

[old] joanvb · Post by **[old] joanvb** » December 5th, 2005, 10:43 pm

I didn't know if the Rod Freed that I've seen mentioned on the forum was really the same Rod Freed that I knew in Long Beach. I guess these posts reveal that it is. I can't vouch for any of his indoor rowing performances, because those must have occurred years after I regularly saw and spoke with Rod at the boathouse. He was somewhat of a character (aren't we all? ), and I do recall that he rowed a lot of long distance by himself in the single (multiple 4,000 meter trips around Naples Island in sheltered Alamitos Bay in Long Beach, which is rowable every day, year round). Additionally, I recall, as is mentioned in the referenced newsletter, that his speed in the single (at least when I knew him) was unremarkable. <br /><br />Joan<br /><br />(Another post I'll probably regret making )

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » December 6th, 2005, 12:43 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 5 2005, 04:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>"he began to run and lift weights and at the University of Virginia in the late 60's and early 70's, took up rowing <b>where he fell under the wing of Paul Wilson, a successful US sculler</b>. "He insisted that we do all workouts at a race pace ('you'll perform like you practice, and "long-slow distance" teaches you to go slow')."" <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes John, I had that listed in my response above, but that wouldn't be his coach on the Erg, since the C2 Erg didn't exist at that time (others did that were quite different), and he sustained a severe back injury during his college rowing, though I'm not sure if that was from rowing or something else. Anyway, if you were consistent you would be blaming Paul Wilson for Freed's back injury because he was his coach at the time, regardless of what the facts were. Have you met Freed, or even had any direct communication with him?

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 6th, 2005, 1:49 am

"he began to run and lift weights and <b>at the University of Virginia in the late 60's and early 70's</b>, took up rowing where he fell under the wing of Paul Wilson, a successful US sculler"<br /><br />"A serious back injury put temporary pay to his on-water rowing <b>in the early 1980's</b> ... at the Long Beach Rowing Assoc"<br /><br /><br />

[old] hjs · Post by **[old] hjs** » December 6th, 2005, 4:53 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 6 2005, 06:49 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>"he began to run and lift weights and <b>at the University of Virginia in the late 60's and early 70's</b>, took up rowing where he fell under the wing of Paul Wilson, a successful US sculler"<br /><br />"A serious back injury put temporary pay to his on-water rowing <b>in the early 1980's</b> ... at the Long Beach Rowing Assoc" <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Hmmm<br /><br />I read the article. Strange and I am not impressed. This is surely not the way you should train. No variation at all And If it's ment to row a fast 2 k it's also not working.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » December 6th, 2005, 10:19 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 5 2005, 09:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>"A serious back injury put temporary pay to his on-water rowing <b>in the early 1980's</b> ... at the Long Beach Rowing Assoc" <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You are misquoting again, please stop that. I see no tie mentioned to LRA and the back injury, as you have created out of thin air.<br /><br />"A serious back injury put temporary pay to his on-water rowing in the early 1980's, but a chance introduction to an Indoor Rower three years ago means that he might be back on the water soon."<br /><br />I have no idea what "temporary pay" is, anyone? (typo, I'm guessing)<br /><br />Just the facts man, just the facts.... <br /><br /><a href='http://www.focusedtraining.com/a3.html' target='_blank'>Some insight on Paul Wilson, Good stuff.</a>

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 6th, 2005, 12:16 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Dec 6 2005, 12:53 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I read the article. Strange and I am not impressed. This is surely not the way you should train. No variation at all And If it's ment to row a fast 2 k it's also not working.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Freed has the all time fastest for the 50+ lwts in the following 6 events:<br /><br />5k<br />6k<br />30 minutes<br />10k<br />60 minutes<br />half marathon<br /><br />Freed has one of the all time fastest 2k's at 6:39. Though I agree the training might not be optimal training for a 2k, it could be adjusted for that event. Even so, no one knows if Freed would do the 2k any faster with different training. How many here are in the top half dozen for the 2k in their group? Not very many. However this training certainly works for the 6 events where he has the fastest times ever.<br />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » December 6th, 2005, 1:01 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 6 2005, 08:16 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>How many here are in the top half dozen for the 2k in their group? Not very many. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well there can only be 6. (100% of the top half dozen!)<br /><br />How many are First in their group? Hmmm.... that would be 1!<br /><br />What is the Race distance that is of any importance in the Erg World? 2000m (and 2500m if you want to be nostalgic, 5 miles on a A if you want to be really nostalgic.) <br /><br />Anyway, I'm satisfied with Joan's response, at least it is first hand and not hearsay. i.e. "credible"

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 6th, 2005, 8:11 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 6 2005, 08:16 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>How many here are in the top half dozen for the 2k in their group? Not very many.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 6 2005, 09:01 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Well there can only be 6. (100% of the top half dozen!) </td></tr></table><br /><br />How many <b>here</b> are in the top half dozen for the 2k in their group.<br /><br />Not very many!<br /><br />Hint: The answer is not 6!

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 6th, 2005, 8:15 pm

From the article:<br /><br />"Wilson specifies a 36 to 38 stroke rating".

[old] hjs · Post by **[old] hjs** » December 7th, 2005, 5:47 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 6 2005, 05:16 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Dec 6 2005, 12:53 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I read the article. Strange and I am not impressed. This is surely not the way you should train. No variation at all And If it's ment to row a fast 2 k it's also not working.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Freed has the all time fastest for the 50+ lwts in the following 6 events:<br /><br />5k<br />6k<br />30 minutes<br />10k<br />60 minutes<br />half marathon<br /><br />Freed has one of the all time fastest 2k's at 6:39. Though I agree the training might not be optimal training for a 2k, it could be adjusted for that event. Even so, no one knows if Freed would do the 2k any faster with different training. How many here are in the top half dozen for the 2k in their group? Not very many. However this training certainly works for the 6 events where he has the fastest times ever. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Ok John Your right, i should give the man the credit he deserves.<br /><br />I think his mussle must have had very littly fast twitch fibers. It has to be looking at his 500 m performances. If you don't have fast fibers you can train whatever you want but it won't do you any good. you are simply no sprinter by nature.<br /><br />For the other part. The way I look at training, training is ment to disrupt the ballance in your body. It will responce on that. time and good food are also needed for that. After a while your body doesn,t respond anymore on the same training, so you have to do something else at least a bit different. Freed didn,t so he stopped possible gain that way in my opinion.<br /><br />For older Atletes, say above 30/35 you also see een tendency off neglecting the speed/flexiblitie training and more and more focussing on the longer work. This will result in building a enormes strong fundation but on the other hand a not so high piek. Younger atletes are not capable of doing the same training but in races the will easely win. Offcourse is the aging process A factor in this, but in my eyes a training not so focussed on the long site older atletes can will perform better. <br /><br />For rowing a good 2 k you must also be capable to row a good 1 k and thus train for that too. And not many do.<br />

[old] NavigationHazard · Post by **[old] NavigationHazard** » December 7th, 2005, 6:41 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 6 2005, 09:19 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I have no idea what "temporary pay" is, anyone? (typo, I'm guessing)<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />To put pay to ~ is an idiomatic expression meaning to halt, cease, abruptly disrupt, interrupt, or destroy something.<br /><br />The general idea is that Freed's back injury in the 1980s temporarily ruined his ability to train, but that he'd subsequently recovered enough to have started up again.<br /><br />