ergdata and apple watch

[Citroen]

Any news on compatibility and use with the Apple Watch?

Write an email to rowing@concept2.com and ask them.

[trancos2002]

Any news on compatibility and use with the Apple Watch?

Write an email to rowing@concept2.com and ask them.

Thank you. Your answer is very helpful.

[adouglas]

There are all kinds of ways you can slice and dice the combo of app, watch, PM5 and heart monitor.

FWIW, here's what I've been doing, and I like it just fine. It all works and while there are multiple steps to get things going, once you've done it a few times it's second nature. No more onerous than the heart belt/app connection/workout selection you need to do anyway even if you don't have an Apple Watch.

My preferred combination:
- Apple Watch
- Polar H9 heart monitor strap, which is connected simultaneously to both the watch (via Bluetooth) and the PM5 (via Ant+). This allows Apple Health to capture accurate heart data from the strap instead of the watch's optical sensor.
- iPhone running ErgZone, which updates the C2 log for rowing-specific tracking. You can use ErgData instead, if you like. Note: ErgData is does integrate with the Apple ecosystem, while ErgZone does not. Basically this just means that ErgData automatically adds workouts to Apple Fitness for you. I prefer to use the Apple Workout app because it shows HR recovery... something that ErgData workouts don't show. Note that the duplicate workout thing noted earlier in the thread does not double-log your workout time in Apple Fitness... but it does show to separate, concurrent workouts, one ErgData and one Apple Workout. Some users don't like the duplication so they disable ErgData as a source in Apple Health.
- Apple Workout, Fitness and Health apps for overall tracking.

Use routine:
1) Connect the heart belt to the watch (Bluetooth) along with my earbuds if I'm listening to music.
2) Connect the heart belt to the PM5 (Ant+)
3) Fire up Ergzone and connect to the PM5. Upload my workout of the day to the PM5.
4) Start a Rowing workout on the watch using Apple Workout (as noted above it'll sense that you're rowing if you forget)

Compare this to a workout with just the PM5 and a heart belt:
1) Connect the heart belt to the PM5.
2) Connect whatever app you're using to the PM5.
3) Set up your workout in the app (if ErgZone) or on the PM5 (if using ErgData).

Not that different, to be honest. Would it be better if everything just happened automatically? Of course. But it just doesn't work that way.

The Workout app captures the relevant workout data to update Apple Health, including HR recovery, calories (for whatever that's worth) and time. This is useful mostly to close the rings... just a little motivator, doesn't mean much.

ErgZone automatically updates the C2 log, which tracks all the important stuff... watts, distance, heart rate, stroke rate, pace, etc. etc. etc. This is the important stuff and what I pay attention to to track rowing progress. The data in Apple Health just shows overall fitness.

Hope this is useful.

[trancos2002]

There are all kinds of ways you can slice and dice the combo of app, watch, PM5 and heart monitor.

FWIW, here's what I've been doing, and I like it just fine. It all works and while there are multiple steps to get things going, once you've done it a few times it's second nature. No more onerous than the heart belt/app connection/workout selection you need to do anyway even if you don't have an Apple Watch.

My preferred combination:
- Apple Watch
- Polar H9 heart monitor strap, which is connected simultaneously to both the watch (via Bluetooth) and the PM5 (via Ant+). This allows Apple Health to capture accurate heart data from the strap instead of the watch's optical sensor.
- iPhone running ErgZone, which updates the C2 log for rowing-specific tracking. You can use ErgData instead, if you like. Note: ErgData is does integrate with the Apple ecosystem, while ErgZone does not. Basically this just means that ErgData automatically adds workouts to Apple Fitness for you. I prefer to use the Apple Workout app because it shows HR recovery... something that ErgData workouts don't show. Note that the duplicate workout thing noted earlier in the thread does not double-log your workout time in Apple Fitness... but it does show to separate, concurrent workouts, one ErgData and one Apple Workout. Some users don't like the duplication so they disable ErgData as a source in Apple Health.
- Apple Workout, Fitness and Health apps for overall tracking.

Use routine:
1) Connect the heart belt to the watch (Bluetooth) along with my earbuds if I'm listening to music.
2) Connect the heart belt to the PM5 (Ant+)
3) Fire up Ergzone and connect to the PM5. Upload my workout of the day to the PM5.
4) Start a Rowing workout on the watch using Apple Workout (as noted above it'll sense that you're rowing if you forget)

Compare this to a workout with just the PM5 and a heart belt:
1) Connect the heart belt to the PM5.
2) Connect whatever app you're using to the PM5.
3) Set up your workout in the app (if ErgZone) or on the PM5 (if using ErgData).

Not that different, to be honest. Would it be better if everything just happened automatically? Of course. But it just doesn't work that way.

The Workout app captures the relevant workout data to update Apple Health, including HR recovery, calories (for whatever that's worth) and time. This is useful mostly to close the rings... just a little motivator, doesn't mean much.

ErgZone automatically updates the C2 log, which tracks all the important stuff... watts, distance, heart rate, stroke rate, pace, etc. etc. etc. This is the important stuff and what I pay attention to to track rowing progress. The data in Apple Health just shows overall fitness.

Hope this is useful.

Thanks a lot! Your answer was REALLY helpful!

[chan_va]

I tried multiple ways to get heartbeat data from the Apple Watch integrate with the concept2 logbook. Ultimately I came to the conclusion that that would happen only when ErgData supports an Apple Watch app.

Till then, I use

Polar h10 chest monitor connected to Apple Watch and pm5 via Bluetooth. ErgData connected to pm5. ErgData writing to Apple health. When working out, don’t click ‘start workout’ when Apple Watch tries to remind you.

This gives concept 2 logbook data with heart rate graph. Also gives you a single workout in Apple health from erg data with data from the monitor.

[adouglas]

Optical heartbeat sensors such as those in fitness watches are, by all accounts, notoriously inaccurate. The chest strap is the way to go.

[chan_va]

Optical heartbeat sensors such as those in fitness watches are, by all accounts, notoriously inaccurate. The chest strap is the way to go.

Not true. The Apple Watch is surprisingly accurate under all sorts of conditions. Maybe the first Gen optical sensors weren’t great, but they have come a long way. It’s high time ErgData supported the Apple Watch.

[JN.V]

Hi
For you people using the Polar H10 in combo with the Apple Watch / iPhone, is it necessary to use a Polar app as well or not at all.

Then, during a workout does the Apple Watch show the heart rate from the HS10 or does it still show heart rate from its internal sensors?

Also, Apple Health logs heart rate recovery, for how long after your workout do you keep wearing the chest strap to accurately log recovery, or do you remove the chest strap and get your recovery heart rate data from the Apple Watch?

The combo I'm planning after some research will be Apple Watch (series 2 for now), iPhone XR, Polar H10 monitor strap with PM5.

Slightly unrelated, during a workout while ERGData is running on my phone, is it possible to run other stuff in the backround, music, podcasts, audio books or even things on screen Netflix and Youtube?

[mdelvecchio]

Optical heartbeat sensors such as those in fitness watches are, by all accounts, notoriously inaccurate. The chest strap is the way to go.

Disagree. The HR on an AW is quite adequate for non-professional, casual fitness needs. Which is most people most of the time. There have been studies comparing the various trackers and AW has done fairly well. In my own tests it matches the HR monitoring of palm grips on gym equipment. Since I’m not training for competitive sport this is fine. They’re all approximations, and short of injecting a needle into the heart nothing is 100% accurate, but that doesn’t matter much.

C2 needs to get off their duffs and support the most popular HR sensor on the planet. They can release a Watch app, or implement GymKit for bi-directional comms and calculations. Instead they’re sitting back and investing nothing. This is laziness & greed, nothing more.

Before long it will be a decade since the AW was released - will C2 still pretend it doesn’t exist?

[Citroen]

Before long it will be a decade since the AW was released - will C2 still pretend it doesn’t exist?

It will never happen until you tell them you need it.
Write an email to info@concept2.com rather than ranting on here.

[mdelvecchio]

Before long it will be a decade since the AW was released - will C2 still pretend it doesn’t exist?

It will never happen until you tell them you need it.
Write an email to info@concept2.com rather than ranting on here.

I get to do both! I’m an enterprise software dev myself, so communicating with other users on forums like this one and encouraging their own feedback for dissatisfactory software development is also useful.

[adouglas]

Something to consider: Software development is not the company's core business and the app is not essential to use of the product, unlike e.g. Peloton. It's a nice-to-have courtesy that they give away for free and isn't even tied to a revenue stream.

There is a reasonable expectation that a company whose business model is centered on software will move heaven and earth to keep up with the latest third-party technology and user preferences. But that's not what C2 is about.

I'm blown away by the support and devotion to the user base that they do give us, complete with incredibly useful tools such as the logbook (which they could easily charge for but don't). Would it be nice to see a killer app with all the latest bells and whistles FOR FREE on top of all that? Sure.

But to be honest, I don't expect them to become a powerhouse app development shop. I'd rather they stay focused on what they do so well.

In the real world resources are limited. Assume that all development is done on a budget (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch, after all). Set your priorities: Continued evolution of the already-excellent monitor that IS part of the core product? Further development of the core product, for example by creating a combination skierg/rowerg (EnergyFit is already doing this and it looks like a great idea)? Or further development of an app that makes you no money and is tied to an external proprietary technology over which you have no control?

[JN.V]

I contacted Concept2 support about a little issue I'm having with the ERGData app and also asked if they'll consider making a ERGData app for the Apple Watch.

They said a new ERGData app update with plenty new features and improvements will be coming in a few months.
They said the new ERGData app will support Apple health kit, so ERGData workouts will sync to Apple workouts and count towards daily Apple activity rings.

They also told me they are currently working on a way to allow users to use Apple Watch for heartrate monitoring, but it doesn't sound like they are planning a dedicated Apple Watch app for now.

[BinaryZombie]

I tried multiple ways to get heartbeat data from the Apple Watch integrate with the concept2 logbook. Ultimately I came to the conclusion that that would happen only when ErgData supports an Apple Watch app.

Till then, I use

Polar h10 chest monitor connected to Apple Watch and pm5 via Bluetooth. ErgData connected to pm5. ErgData writing to Apple health. When working out, don’t click ‘start workout’ when Apple Watch tries to remind you.

This gives concept 2 logbook data with heart rate graph. Also gives you a single workout in Apple health from erg data with data from the monitor.

This! It's the only way I get to see the heart rate chart and recovery in the Fitness app after the workout while also not duplicating workouts. I also think I trust the PM5 for more accurate calorie burn and tracking than the Apple Watch. So it's nice to be able to use the ErgData app.

Also I find the H10 tracks the heart rate more often than the watch while doing a workout, so you get a more concise picture of your heart rate chart. The chart done with just the optical HR sensor seems to be more spotty with little gaps.

[matthew92]

They also told me they are currently working on a way to allow users to use Apple Watch for heartrate monitoring, but it doesn't sound like they are planning a dedicated Apple Watch app for now.

Yeah, that seemed like a bit of a long shot to begin with to be fair..