Training To Break 1:14 - 500m

[AlexFergus]

...
Monday - Power erg session and or race time trial
Tuesday - lower body weights
Wed - upper body weights
Thurs - Lactic Acid Erg
Fri - Jump/Explosive/Plyo stuff + Aerobic Row
Weekend - off

Any chance of shifting the Monday session to Sunday? Give you a day of rest between the hard leg drive on Monday and the lower body weights ?

Else consider doing the lower body weights on Monday after the "Power erg session and or race time trial". Doubling up will not be as bad as back to back hard leg sessions, lifters don't work the same muscles 2 days in a row for a reason.

Likewise consider doing the "Jump/Explosive/Plyo stuff" on Thurs after the "Thurs - Lactic Acid Erg" rather than on Friday.

Goal, give your body time for growth after you trigger adaptation with a hard session.

Example alternative schedule: (3 hard leg/hip/back days with one or two days recovery after each session).

Sunday - Power erg session and or race time trial
Monday - slow aerobic work (row, bike, jog, 70% max HR) or rest
Tuesday - lower body weights (legs, back/hips)
Wed - upper body weights (no back/hips)
Thurs - Lactic Acid Erg; Jump/Explosive/Plyo stuff
Friday - slow aerobic work (row, bike, jog, 70% max HR)
Sat - off

Good luck with the goal. Glad you are in tune with your training and know when additional rest is required.

Hey, yeah I know my schedule isn't perfect, but it's the best I could come up with work, family, farm commitments.
When I was younger my biggest training sessions (3 hour powerlifting workouts etc) were on the weekend, that was because I had the time.
Today it's the opposite - the weekend is family time etc, so I try not to train.
I also do shooting on sunday for half a day, so can't really expect the wife to have the kids all sunday while I pursue hobbies haha.
SAYING THAT - yesterday was sunday and I did spend 5 hours at the club and then did a workout in the evening

But my ideal plan is to get my sessions done in the week and have the weekend off.

Now I know there is an obvious flaw with the power row followed by the lower body weights... But I tried a few different plans and I kept coming back to this one. And it hasn't been an issue to do.
Like 2 weeks ago I did a 500m PB on monday, then on Tuesday exceeded all my goal lifts in the gym. I couldn't do it the other way around though.
I did try combining the two workouts on one day, but two things happened, first it was too long of a session, and secondly mentally I couldn't commit - leg workout days are physically and mentally tough days for me. You know it's going to hurt, and you know you're going to have to really push yourself. Doing that at the same time as doing big power rows etc just didn't cut it. I needed to seperate them.

Regarding this comment:
> lifters don't work the same muscles 2 days in a row for a reason.

I get it, but then again I had some of my best gains in my bodybuilding days where I would go against conventional norms. I.e. doing 3 upper body workout days in 3 days... but then having 5 days to recover etc.

Re this
> Likewise consider doing the "Jump/Explosive/Plyo stuff" on Thurs after the "Thurs - Lactic Acid Erg" rather than on Friday.
This wouldn't work. I need to be well rested for plyo stuff. Otherwise it's pointless doing it (based on my body experience).
Plus after a lactic erg session I'm tapped out. Done, dusted... wanting to quit the sport for good kind of thing haha.

Anyway, I appreciate all the thoughts, I spent 2 months trying to come up with a plan that would work for me and my schedule. Honestly every night I'd map out a new plan and think 'ha, I've cracked it' only to put it into action and find that it didn't work for whatever reason.

This plan I've got at the moment has worked well for a few weeks now, and my numbers continue to go up, though I'm sure it will change in the weeks ahead

[AlexFergus]

Hey all, just a bit of an update.

First, my 1.19.5 row is on youtube:

https://youtu.be/p0pQk6CA3iw?t=375


This was done last month.

Secondly, it's been a crazy 2 weeks.

I lost half a week of traning due to a family medical event. Knocked me around and all routine etc went out the window.

Last week I was away for 2 days and I had planned for this on a training front, but then picked up some bug - all I had was a sore throat but then I'd have these sudden waves of fatigue and end up napping for an hour. One day I had two big naps after a normal night of sleep.

So I took off most of last week from training as well.

Did a session last night and felt good, so back into the gym today.

But this is why I don't work in deload or recovery weeks, because I know life will throw them my way anyway

I experimented with raising my feet higher (usually on #3, but I put it on 2 for my 500m pieces, but am now trying #1) it's uncomfortable, but I feel like I get more leg squeeze.
Will do a 500m trial next week

[aussie nick]

totally agree with de-loads. there's always an illness or a family drama (or a huge weekend!) that comes along to give you one naturally, so no need to program one unless you're some kind of cyborg living in the purest of environments.

I haven't really experimented with foot placement at all so far. 2 feels most comfortable so I've stuck with that tbh.

is there much theory behind moving foot placement up or down?

[MartinSH4321]

totally agree with de-loads. there's always an illness or a family drama (or a huge weekend!) that comes along to give you one naturally, so no need to program one unless you're some kind of cyborg living in the purest of environments.

I haven't really experimented with foot placement at all so far. 2 feels most comfortable so I've stuck with that tbh.

is there much theory behind moving foot placement up or down?

Most sprint ergers put their feet higher than normal, I think the main reason is that it's more stable - with low feet you're more likely to pull yourself off the seat. As the stroke for sprinting is shorter than normal the limited reach forward isn't a problem, especially for 100m.
For 100m I put my feet as high as possible, for 1' and 500m I prefer 1 hole less.

[Tsnor]

This plan I've got at the moment has worked well for a few weeks now, and my numbers continue to go up ...

Excellent. Thanks for replying, showing you understand comments, appreciated.

Do you keep track of your low pull, lowest single stroke split ? If so how fast is it improving with your program? I'd like to improve mine.

[Erik A]

interesting thread will be watching this.
i really want to get my son into rowing as hes built for it (6ft 5 and 105kg). he does power lifting as well but not built for that as hes too tall . he has competed at nationals in power lifting (NZ) but to be honest will never get the big numbers because of his height without bulking significantly. but unfortunatly hes just not that interested in doing anything other than lifting. not that there is anything wrong with that as its better than a. doing nothing and b. sitting in front of a screen. hes out and about doing all sorts. hunting, fishing training 4 days a week etc etc just not rowing lol. good luck with the goal and will be interested to see how close you get

[AlexFergus]

interesting thread will be watching this.
i really want to get my son into rowing as hes built for it (6ft 5 and 105kg). he does power lifting as well but not built for that as hes too tall . he has competed at nationals in power lifting (NZ) but to be honest will never get the big numbers because of his height without bulking significantly. but unfortunatly hes just not that interested in doing anything other than lifting. not that there is anything wrong with that as its better than a. doing nothing and b. sitting in front of a screen. hes out and about doing all sorts. hunting, fishing training 4 days a week etc etc just not rowing lol. good luck with the goal and will be interested to see how close you get

As we all know, you can't take rowing or indoor rowing seriously unless you have the passion for it. There needs to be that fire in the belly for the 5am starts, the 2 hour long rows, the 2k erg tests etc etc. It's a tough sport!
Having done a lot of sports at some respectable levels, I can tell you now, the day you lose the enjoyment for the sport, it's time to refocus.

Sounds like he is doing well with the powerlifting, even with his height. Hey and who know's, I have some lofty goals in the rowing space and I'm not close to being 'suitable height' so maybe he will be the same with powerlifting!!

[aussie nick]

interesting thread will be watching this.
i really want to get my son into rowing as hes built for it (6ft 5 and 105kg). he does power lifting as well but not built for that as hes too tall . he has competed at nationals in power lifting (NZ) but to be honest will never get the big numbers because of his height without bulking significantly. but unfortunatly hes just not that interested in doing anything other than lifting. not that there is anything wrong with that as its better than a. doing nothing and b. sitting in front of a screen. hes out and about doing all sorts. hunting, fishing training 4 days a week etc etc just not rowing lol. good luck with the goal and will be interested to see how close you get

As we all know, you can't take rowing or indoor rowing seriously unless you have the passion for it. There needs to be that fire in the belly for the 5am starts, the 2 hour long rows, the 2k erg tests etc etc. It's a tough sport!

this is so true. you can 'just row' and get fitness from doing it a few times a week for 20-40 mins and if that makes you happy and helps give value to your fitness and life then that's brilliant. but you need to be mentally and physically prepared to go into dark places to get real improvement and there's no forcing someone to do that if they don't want to.

[AlexFergus]

Did my monhtly 500m time trial..

1:17.6

It was a crash and burn row - honestly I thought I'd f&%ked it at 100m to go, but I managed to hold on.

1.9 seconds off my PB (which was done 4 weeks ago).

So I've gone from 1:22.8 in Jan to 1:17.6 in March.

Goal is 1:14 by xmas

Got a video and month update coming.

You can see the row data here - https://log.concept2.com/profile/140341/log/62672668

Look at that pace drop off

[Dangerscouse]

Did my monhtly 500m time trial..

1:17.6

It was a crash and burn row - honestly I thought I'd f&%ked it at 100m to go, but I managed to hold on.

1.9 seconds off my PB (which was done 4 weeks ago).

So I've gone from 1:22.8 in Jan to 1:17.6 in March.

Goal is 1:14 by xmas

Got a video and month update coming.

You can see the row data here - https://log.concept2.com/profile/140341/log/62672668

Look at that pace drop off

That's a massive increase in performance since January. I really hope you do make it to 1:14, but, as you probably know, from now on every tenth of a second will be like half a second improvement.

[aussie nick]

Did my monhtly 500m time trial..

1:17.6

It was a crash and burn row - honestly I thought I'd f&%ked it at 100m to go, but I managed to hold on.

1.9 seconds off my PB (which was done 4 weeks ago).

So I've gone from 1:22.8 in Jan to 1:17.6 in March.

Goal is 1:14 by xmas

Got a video and month update coming.

You can see the row data here - https://log.concept2.com/profile/140341/log/62672668

Look at that pace drop off

Incredible - well done Alex!

[AlexFergus]

Thanks guys.
Still a long way to go, but it's very early days.

Only 2 months of goal specific training, and even then it's been quite an interrupted peroid. This month for instance I had 2 weeks where I only got into the gym a handful of times.

Anyway we'll keep chipping away at it.

[KeithT]

Thanks guys.
Still a long way to go, but it's very early days.

Only 2 months of goal specific training, and even then it's been quite an interrupted peroid. This month for instance I had 2 weeks where I only got into the gym a handful of times.

Anyway we'll keep chipping away at it.

Watched video. I saw someone mention higher Stroke Rate and that's definitely good advice. Generating massive power though - impressive.

[AlexFergus]

Thanks guys.
Still a long way to go, but it's very early days.

Only 2 months of goal specific training, and even then it's been quite an interrupted peroid. This month for instance I had 2 weeks where I only got into the gym a handful of times.

Anyway we'll keep chipping away at it.

Watched video. I saw someone mention higher Stroke Rate and that's definitely good advice. Generating massive power though - impressive.

Thanks.
Yup the recent 1:17.6 row was a much higher rating - 45spm average and that shaved 2 seconds off my time.

Still lots to tweak and work on. Had 4 strokes above 1000 watts at the start (sub 1:10 splits). Goal is to get that raw power up to around 1100 - 1200w for 4-5 strokes at the start (1:08-1:06 splits) and then improve the anaerobic base so I can hold the target split (850w / 1:14 split) until around 400m with my regular strokes - then the last 100m i can shorten up and try and hold on as long as possible!

So yeah, still lots of work to go.

[AlexFergus]

I posted this question for BtLifter over on YT, but I thought I'd post it here as well, as it could be useful for other people training for the 500m sprint, and at the same time I'm curious to get everyone else's views:

I have a question for you:
1) Given the power output/intensity required for these 500m efforts, do you think realistically we can only expect to truely 'perform' (i.e. break a PB) in one row session (whether it is a time trial, or an intense interval) a week?

Because this is what I'm finding, I'm doing my big sprint row on Monday (500m, or 100ms repeats like I did yesterday), big leg weights day tuesday and then I find any other rows I try and do (lets say on a thursday or friday) there is just no 'zing'.
For instance last week I did:
Mon - 500m (PB - average 750watts)
Tues - Leg weights (improving on the previous weeks numbers)
Wed/Thur - off
Friday - attempted 150m x 8 / 2min rest @ race pace - I only held 750watts for 2 repeats! Which is only 300m of rowing with 2mins rest in between! There was simply nothing in the legs, despite all the rest days?!

Now I could have another rest day, but then it gets too close to my Monday 'big' session... so thats why I'm curious to hear your thoughts here - do you think I should only aim to do one BIG/Intense (i.e. PB setting) row a week (whether it's a 500m race, or a sprint interval like the one above)?

--------

And following up on this then, let's say the body only has one big performance in it a week, is there a benefit (a benefical training effect) from doing a second session at sub par performance (i.e still doing that 150m interval session later in the week, even if I'm only holding 650w averages).
OR could that be counter productive - impacting rest for our weekly 'BIG' session, and or, not stimulating a suitable training effect.

Curious to hear your thoughts/what you do.
Of course if I only do one big session a week, then it begs the question what do I do with the rest of my time? Nothing? Recovery/Aerobic rows? Practice starts etc.