Rowing at very low drag factor

[chan_va]

Newbie here. I have been doing steady state sessions at about 140bpm heart rate and 18-20 strokes/min.

I have been rowing with a drag factor of 115ish. I accidentally did a row today at a drag factor of 100. To my surprise I was able to hold splits that were 5 seconds faster at the same stroke rate and heart rate. Is that normal? Should I be rowing at a very low drag factor?

Thanks.

[Dangerscouse]

Welcome to the forum. Drag factor is very subjective, and it's only a means to an end so there is no 'magic' figure. Whatever works for you is the right drag factor, so keep it at that.

[mict450]

Use the drag factor that is comfortable for you. I've got a dodgy back & been using about 70 DF for sessions up to 2 hours duration. You need a fast, explosive start with the quads but is easier on my back. Splits, for me, are irrelevant.

[Tsnor]

Newbie here. I have been doing steady state sessions at about 140bpm heart rate and 18-20 strokes/min.

I have been rowing with a drag factor of 115ish. I accidentally did a row today at a drag factor of 100. To my surprise I was able to hold splits that were 5 seconds faster at the same stroke rate and heart rate. Is that normal? Should I be rowing at a very low drag factor?

Thanks.

Since it's working for you suggest you do a few more sessions at 100 and see if the effect continues. Either it's a one-of-a-kind, or you should keep rowing at low drag factor.

It is unusual to see a significant difference. This study (of 14 club rowers) found no real difference between DF 100 and DF 150. https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _of_Rowing

"no significant difference between D100 and D150 for any of the variables measured (p > .05). Paired t-tests of maximal variables determined significant differences between D100 and D150 forV˙Emax only (p < .02). With the exception of Wmax, all maximal variables were greater at D100, though not significantly so (l"Ta-ble 2). Correlation analyses showed a significant relationship between the mean D100–D150SR difference and only the D100–D150 V˙E difference from each of the seven stages (r = .76, p < .01,l"Fig. 1). The relationship between the rowers’ body mass and the difference in V˙Emax(r = – 0.22) between drag factors was not significant (p > .05)"

"..It appears that drag factor has little, if any, effect on V˙O2, HR, BLC, R, and W/V˙O2 at D100 versus D150 at the club level preseason..."

[chan_va]

Thanks, I do have a ways to go to find my right training bands. Tried to do a Max Heart Rate test today after I finally bought a chest strap. Results were very surprising. My max Heart rate seems to be at least 200 (The heart rate graph was still climbing at 200 but I broke the interval off). This is very high since I am a 46 year old male. Either my chest strap is wrong (I don't think so as it matches my apple watch at lower heart rates), or I have a weird body.

[Nomath]

Just looking to your workout graph, I find the heart rate curve quite strange and suspicious of error.
1) At the start the HR is about 130 bpm, which is quite high without prior exercise. It is even high after a possible warm-up.
2) Between 0-70 sec, at a pace between 2:07 and 2:10, your HR increases slowly, which is about normal. However, between 70-100 sec, your pace increases to about 2:05 but the HR increase seems to slow down. This is already a bit odd.
3) After 125 sec your pace increases dramatically to about 1:45, but the HR reacts very slowly until at about 160 sec when it suddenly increases quite steeply. I find a delay of 35 sec after a huge increase in power (from ca. 170W to 300W) very odd. I usually have a delay of 5-10 sec between a sudden increase/decrease in power and the onset of the HR response.
4) At about 180 sec, you drop the effort significantly, but it takes about 30 sec for the HR to drop by a meager 10 bpm.

Multiple reasons to check your HR sensor.

[MPx]

May be an error, but no reason it couldn't be right. My max was over 200 in my early 40s - currently about 170 at nearly 65.

[Carl Watts]

You best to row for an extended amount of time, a couple of minutes is not going to be enough to determine much at all.

Do a 30 minute steady state row and keep the pace and the rating the same from start to finish.

Heartrate graph should start really low, climb fast to match the effort and flatten out. The drift upwards or the slope will depend on your fitness and chosen pace.

[chan_va]

Just looking to your workout graph, I find the heart rate curve quite strange and suspicious of error.
1) At the start the HR is about 130 bpm, which is quite high without prior exercise. It is even high after a possible warm-up.
2) Between 0-70 sec, at a pace between 2:07 and 2:10, your HR increases slowly, which is about normal. However, between 70-100 sec, your pace increases to about 2:05 but the HR increase seems to slow down. This is already a bit odd.
3) After 125 sec your pace increases dramatically to about 1:45, but the HR reacts very slowly until at about 160 sec when it suddenly increases quite steeply. I find a delay of 35 sec after a huge increase in power (from ca. 170W to 300W) very odd. I usually have a delay of 5-10 sec between a sudden increase/decrease in power and the onset of the HR response.
4) At about 180 sec, you drop the effort significantly, but it takes about 30 sec for the HR to drop by a meager 10 bpm.

Multiple reasons to check your HR sensor.

Thanks.

For 1 - this was my 3rd interval so that would explain the high initial heart rate. I do agree the delay in the heart rate seems odd to register the bump in pace. I have the garmin dual hrm. Any experience with that?

[Tsnor]

That's a good belt. garmin dual hrm.

HR curve looks good to me. When you backed off effort the HR came back down.

If the belt looses sync and generates a bad HR value it will do it at random times. If the shape for each of the intervals where you did the same work all looks the same then the belt is working fine.

200 Max Heart Rate (or higher) is very possible. The devices I've seen loose sync (looking at you Fitbit) all tend to continue the last value then fall into a "reasonable" range. For intervals that means they read low not high.

When the PM5 looses bluetooth or ANT+ connection with the belt it freezes then displays blank in the HR. It wouldn't give good data like that in your curve.

You'll know your max HR in a month or two. Just keep updating that 200 number each time you see a higher HR. If you haven't seen anything this high in a month then this was a misread. But I'd guess it's good.

3rd interval of 4 minute intervals is where I'd hit my max too. You can also see a pattern where the max of the second interval on is higher than the first interval, third higher than second, etc. How high was second interval? More support evidence that the 200 is correct if the first and second were a smooth transition to the third (assuming similar effort level on each interval).

ASIDE: If you have a second device, you can also run your Garmin app and collect HR data at the same time you are using the belt with the PM5. Just use ANT+ on PM5 and Bluetooth on your 2nd device. That will give you a nice curve showing all the HR data including the rest periods in real time. I do that with polar H10 and the polar app. Ergdata runs on a Kindle for me, and the polar app on my phone.

EDIT: if you look at this graph of a couple of known max HR values you can see you are not alone at 200+ at your age. This is why the 220-age formula is so dangerous to use to build training zones. https://youtu.be/WkyzCRFnhGo?t=86

[jamesg]

at a drag factor of 100. splits that were 5 seconds faster at the same stroke rate and heart rate.

What were those numbers? During the learning phase, what may seem odd things can happen, according to expectations.

Low drag is the best place to start when learning to row. It'll let you pull a long quick stroke but not very hard, so without too much effort. Good style can be very hard work at any rating. So it's best to avoid those aspects, such as high drag and high ratings, that can only make things worse.

[alien878]

Regarding HRM responsiveness: Is you HRM connected via ANT+? I have a Polar OH1 and I noticed a huge improvement in responsiveness when connected it via ANT+ instead of Bluetooth. I think it is now updating a lot faster so there is less smoothing in the PM.

[dabatey]

Formulas can be way off for max heart rate.

I did a ramp test and reached 182 at 49. That was early on when I was unfit, probably had less mental fortitude to push on as hard as I absolutely could, and likely broke off the final pace step whilst heart rate was still rising . Although it might well be my max, I wouldn't be surprised that if I tested again I would be a couple/few beats higher.

[dabatey]

Thanks, I do have a ways to go to find my right training bands. Tried to do a Max Heart Rate test today after I finally bought a chest strap. Results were very surprising. My max Heart rate seems to be at least 200 (The heart rate graph was still climbing at 200 but I broke the interval off). This is very high since I am a 46 year old male. Either my chest strap is wrong (I don't think so as it matches my apple watch at lower heart rates), or I have a weird body.

Quick question for anybody.

How do you capture your C2 log graph and display it directly on the page. I've wanted to do that a couple times but couldn't work it out.

[Dutch]

I have played about quite a lot with lower drags. When one first discovers it at training pace it is quite a revelation, there is a smooth stroke, more perceived power etc.
As has been mentioned the efficiency of the stroke becomes an important factor, if you are muscularly strong there can be a tendency with lower drags to blast off or pull just a tad too hard even at a reasonable spm in a tt. Having a slightly higher drag allows the pull strength to keep in time with the aerobic capacity. Too higher df though and the arms will lag and legs will tire quicker.
Lower drags are very efficient, hence why 16 stone top rowers use 125 to 130 only on the erg as they are good in their timing and fitness. A smaller person may use a lower drag, anywhere from 100 to 115 as it offers less resistance to their size, but they can still keep a good spm as they are aerobically fit.
The main key to lower drags I feel is fitness levels and discipline of stroke.
In June last year I pulled a 2k tt, 130 df and 247 watts, then in October I pulled a 2k with 112 df and 247 watts. I HD 250m from the end in the Oct 2k, as I blasted the first 500 in 1.42 because of the lower resistance, when my pace time was meant to be 1.49. If I had not blasted I would have cruised home in about 7.19. I was so tired that as the ave time went higher my mental drive gave out.
The funny thing of it was if I had just held on I would have probably finished 2 secs quicker than my old best time of 7.29. My finish average at 1750m was 1.48.5 and would have probably have ended up on 1.51 or something.
Here is a link to an older thread on this subject: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55744