ergdata and apple watch

[chicagoal]

I've tried Echo BLE but find that while it connects between watch and PM5 just fine, it seems to block communication between PM5 and Ergdata. I can actually 'connect' Ergdata with the PM5, but Ergdata sits there 'Ready for Workout' and doesn't pick up anything from the row. I made sure to quit all other apps etc to make sure they weren't interfering. Also it turns out that the basic ($5) Echo BLE will only track for 20 mins after which it shuts off so that was an annoyance partway through my workout. I have a message in to the developer, maybe there's a fix for the Ergdata communication issue.

[chicagoal]

Developer says there is indeed an issue with using Echo BLE and Ergdata at the same time, that they have been able to replicate it but not fix it, however they are working on it. He'll update me and I'll update here.

[DoctorOfRowing]

I can also not recommend the Echo BLE App anymore. The developer is greedy. You buy it for around 5 € / $. And after some days they make an update where you get 20 min workouts for free and there is an Pro version you need to buy in app for 16,99 € to get unlimited workouts. I'm waiting for the update where you will need a subscription with a monthly fee....

[Ripples]

I tried the app today and while it does transmit your HR to the PM5, it shuts down the Apple Watch rower workout. That's a big deal for me as I use the workout complications towards filling my exercise and move rings. I had rowed for 10 minutes then decided to check the Echo reading against the reading on the watch. That's when I saw the rower workout had been stopped by the Echo app. At that point I closed Echo and continued rowing using the rower workout. Echo has been deleted from my phone and watch.

Their 20-minute allowance is dopey.

[atta]

Will there be an ergdata version especially for the watch? I think that would be the best. I dont want to use my phone for the training. It would be very comfortable to start ergdata just on the watch (with HR). Is that possible?

[pked]

I bought the App "Echo BLE Heart Rate from Watch" in the AppStore. It transfers the Hearbeat measured from the watch into a signal like from a HeartBelt. So the Value from the watch will be also shown on your C2 Rower - also in the file after your workout. Works almost perfect. There is sometimes a bit delay, I guess it calculates an average Heartbeat Value over some seconds.

This is actually related to how the C2 rower handles the HR data sent to it. The C2 rower does interpolation between the old HR sample that it had and the new one. For example, if your old HR sample is at 100 and it receives a new sample of 110, the C2 rower might show 102, then 105, then 108, then finally 110. I expect this was implemented by the C2 engineers to address erratic HR samples.

This is not a new issue but the Apple watch makes it visible. You see, if the interpolation is happening from your Polar chest strap, you simply never know it's happening. Now with the Apple watch running Echo, you see the exact value when it is sent to the C2 rower. Then you watch as the C2 rower catches up to the watch. The watch actually has the more correct value than the rower.

[pm5user]

I'd like to share my recent experience with ergdata and apple watch.

The setting I prefer now is to use ergdata app (wirelessly connected to pm5) on the iphone as training and not start an apple training on the apple watch (ignore the training detection by the watch). The polar H10 chest strap is connected to ergdata app on the iphone and to the apple watch, although I think this is not required. But it seems there is no training detection if the chest strap is connected to the apple watch.

In addition to the concept2 logbook I use healtfit app on the iphone and runalyze.com synced with concept2 logbook to analyze my trainings.

I have sometimes problems that no or only a fraction of the heart rate data is stored in apple health app and healtfit app, although all the heart rate data is stored in concept2 logbook. No idea what the reason for this problem is. Anybody else experienced this problem? It seems to work better if I deny write access of hr data for ergdata to apple health.

[thvedt]

I have sometimes problems that no or only a fraction of the heart rate data is stored in apple health app

My guess is that the Apple Watch doesn't know there's a workout in progress, and thus doesn't do continuous heart rate readings. The watch only does occasional samples when it doesn't know you're working out.

A workaround is to start a workout on your Apple Watch, but then you get two workouts in your Apple health data -- the one you started manually on the watch, and the one from ErgData. I have done this, and then afterwards I delete the Apple Watch workout, being careful to delete the workout only, and not the data. It's far from ideal. I hope ErgData will eventually get Apple Watch integration so this all just happens automatically. I'd also like the PM5 to be able to use Apple Watch as a source for HR data, but that's secondary to me.

[Tsnor]

I hope ErgData will eventually get Apple Watch integration so this all just happens automatically.

That integration is on the Apple end. Ergdata talks to Concept 2 log. Concept2 log pushes the data to Apple (and other places like Fitbit, Strava and Garmin). Apple integrates the data and chooses what to display. Getting better integration so that duplicate workouts are suppressed (say by knowing the time frames overlap) is something that Apple would need to add. Only Apple knows about the duplicate workouts.

I'd also like the PM5 to be able to use Apple Watch as a source for HR data, but that's secondary to me.

That you can have today. PM5 will pick up an ANT+ or Bluetooth LE HR signal, and you can get that from your apple watch. The flow is apple watch to iphone to app that broadcasts the HR data (example BlueHeart, Heartcast, etc.). Once the PM5 picks up the data it's just like it came from a HR strap, except less accurate because straps tend to be more accurate than wrist based optical. If you google something more mainstream than a concept2 PM5 you'll see a lot of options (example google "Apple Watch as a heart rate monitor for Peloton Bike")

[thvedt]

That integration is on the Apple end.

Not necessarily. If C2 used the GymKit API they could do it.

[Tsnor]

That integration is on the Apple end.

Not necessarily. If C2 used the GymKit API they could do it.

"GymKit is an integration API that was launched with watchOS 4.1 on 31 October 2017, which allows developers and manufacturers to enable bidirectional sync between the Apple Watch and certain cardio equipment.[8][9] Once paired, compatible machines can send workout data and performance to the Fitness app." wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_( ... GymKit_API

We'll have to disagree on who is responsible for managing how duplicate workouts reported to apple from multiple sources are displayed by apple applications. I personally agree with apple's choice to show both. It's also what Fitbit does.

If you look earlier in this thread you can see that Apple has done some work to suppress duplicate information while showing both reported workouts. Again, Fitbit does similar.

just found the following article https://www.cultofmac.com/690011/how-to ... -workouts/. IT seems apple can handle duplicate workouts, i.e. calories and rings are only counted once, but the number of trainings ist still incl doubles: My training app reports 4 workouts if I have done 2 workouts with activated ergdata sync and apple training logging. I guess I will keep both activated.

[thvedt]

Yes, at least since I've had an Apple Watch (4+ years), Apple has made the distinction between a workout and the underlying data (heart rate, calories, etc). They can be manipulated separately; e.g., you can delete a workout but the other data remains; or in this scenario, delete one of the two simultaneous workouts.

The dual workouts recorded in Apple Fitness don't bother me. Having to initiate workouts on two devices does bother me (yeah, I know: first-world problems...). What I'd like is for ErgData or the PM5 to start a workout on my watch, so I don't have to remember to do it in order to get complete heart rate data recorded into Apple Fitness. Or maybe having an ErgData app on the Apple Watch that will start a workout on the PM5. And if the PM5 can record the Apple Watch data into LogBook, that would be nice too.

I know there are third-party apps, and devices that send Apple Watch data as ANT+ or BLE. Echo, HeartCast, Heartbeatz, BlueHeart, etc. Does anybody have any recommendations?

[thvedt]

The last time I forgot to start a workout on my watch, a few minutes in it tapped me and said it detected a rowing workout; would I like to start one? It captured data before that point, too. Nice work, Apple!

[wryly coyote]

So I got the Echo and paid the $15 bucks as 20 minutes is pretty useless. I connected Echo from my watch (or iphone it seems to use both) to the PM5. Then I ran Asensai using my ipad and connected to the PM5 - it seemed glitchy at first but then it worked. I have Asensai connected to C2 logbook and apple health (on my iphone since ipad doesn't have apple health) and Ergdata on my iphone connected to concept 2 logbook.

So what happened? The data does sync with Ergdata and captures heart rate it appears - or some of it, and the echo had put the workout data including calories burned and heart rate data to the app. None of the data from Asensai or Ergdata made it into Apple Health. Now there is an option under apps where it priorities the source app data, and Echo was at the top of the list. I am going to try to put it at the bottom and see what happens during my next workout.

Overall, I guess it worked but no rowing type data made it into apple health or fitness. Seems like Apple doesn't care much for tracking that but that's ok since I have other apps for rowing specific things and Apple health is more for overall stuff.

[trancos2002]

Any news on compatibility and use with the Apple Watch?