Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
DavidA
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by DavidA » January 3rd, 2022, 4:41 pm

GlennUk wrote:
January 3rd, 2022, 5:16 am
Hi all

Just to report i have completed my 115972m row yesterday. Completed in 11hrs 17 minutes which was about an hour and 17 minutes longer than id hoped for.

Things went well up until abou 6.5hours when the dreaded PITA occured and never really went away, despite numerous stops to alleviate the pain. Ill put out more thoughts later, what i learned and what i would do different.

Cheers all and happy new year to you all.
WOW!
Congratulations on completing that!
That is quite an achievement.

David
63 y / 70 kg / 172 cm / 5 kids / 17 grandkids :)
Received my model C erg 18-Dec-1994
my log

MPx
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by MPx » January 3rd, 2022, 7:27 pm

Magnificant Glenn. Maybe not to plan A, but you prepped and planned so well you made it home anyway. Congrats - completely beyond anything I could imagine taking on.
Mike - 67 HWT 183

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GlennUk
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by GlennUk » January 4th, 2022, 1:18 pm

Background

I started erging in 2009, exercising regularly up until end of April 2011. Whilst I used the erg after this, over the next 10 years I managed c.300k total.

When the pandemic started, I was commuting between bedroom and the study downstairs, my wife suggested (tactfully) I should do more before I became obese, diabetic and perhaps worse.

I dusted off the erg and in May 2020 began training and discovered the love of exercise that I had enjoyed prior to ‘falling off the wagon’ as it were.

I reached 60, on the 1st Jan 2021 and decided to set myself a challenge and settled on 115,972m.

Training

I followed he Eddie Fletcher Marathon and 100k plan supported by coaching sessions with Eddie via teams/whatsapp.

I found the training and Eddies approach really helpful. I had previously tried using RowPro but I am not sure they are a) suited to distances beyond a marathon (I'm not entirely sure they’re ideal for that either) and b) I found using RoPro with my laptop/PM4/5 was appalling.

Because I haven’t seriously tried any other long distance plans I cannot draw comparisons, save to say that of all the things that occurred on my long row, it was not my fitness that I ever felt was in doubt.

That is despite the fact that following the 100k plan the longest sessions were 3.,5 hours each, even if I were an elite athlete this would still be only c.50% of the anticipated duration of the final 100k, and clearly that I am not.

So I can recommend the Eddie Fletcher Marathon and 100k plan, it may not suit everyone but it did me.

Pre-session prep

I was keen to make sure I had sufficient fluids for the session, so I prepped 7 litres of my ‘energy drink’. AKA 7 litres of orange squash (with a teaspoon of sugar and 5g of salt for every litre). The same as I used throughout all of my training.

I had always struggled with a drinking to a specific plan in terms of volumes in the EF plan, and planned to drink every 30 minutes taking several large gulps from a drinking bottle. This was the same approach I used when id di my 60k and seemed to work for me.

It was warmer in the (unheated) gym that usual given the ambient conditions. I started erging at 05:40 ish and it was about 14C inside. Given the time I started I had hoped it would have been about 5-6 degrees lower than that throughout the session but at one stage the temp rose to 15.3C.

As it was warmer than hoped I drank every 15 minutes after the 1st couple of hours. I also ate 4 bananas during the session with approx. half eaten every couple of hours or so. I also snacked on cereal bars with each bar broken into several pieces. I actually drank 3022mls during the session.

At the end of the sessions I weighed exactly the same weight as I did when I started, so my strategy was obviously close to ideal for me I think.

Calculating what id drunk, eaten and subtracting the solid from my final weight it appears that over the 11 hours odd, I had a net loss of circa 350mls of fluid (for confirmation, I only lost fluid due to sweating, there was no other ‘mechanism’ for fluid/weight loss during the sessions).

I had gathered about me, spare clothes, sweatbands, plasters/scissors, music, glasses and this proved helpful as I needed plasters for a heel and a finger part way through the session.

Tip, if like me you wear lycra compression type clothing, be warned it can get rucked up and difficult to put on a sweaty body!

The Rowing

The plan was to row at between 80-85% of my HRmax and the pace would be what as a stroke rate in the region of 18-24 spm. The EF plan suggest 85% for a 100k so i needed to be conservative for the extra distance.

Whilst I was intent on rowing to HR I had hoped for pace of c.2:30.0/500m based on my training pace combined with advice form Eddie. Given I was planning to row 16% further than a 100k, his advice was to add about 4 seconds/500m to my 100k pace ended which up at about 2:26.0/500m in training.

However, right from the off it was obvious that I would not be able to maintain that pace in my proposed HR ranges and therefore my pace dropped to around 2:45/500m.

I had a similar issue when I rowed my 60k in may being much slower on the day than in training with my HR being much higher for the eventual pace than anticipated.

I am having issues downloading the csv file from my logbook which is pain, I have manged to download the TCX file but it does not contain the same details as the CSV. However from that I have worked out that my average HR for the whole period was 147bpm or just over 80% HRmax for me.

Also my average power 85 Watts for the rowing and stroke rate was 23spm.

However, about 6.5hrs in I developed a pain in the backside. Whilst initially it was manageable by shifting in my seat periodically, it never went away and eventually I ended up getting on and off the erg for a couple of minutes here and there to relieve the pain. Its hard to be precise about the impact this had on my time since to be frank, I wasn’t in a mood to take notes.

I had expected to be able to inspect in detail the data uplodaded from the ErgData app which hasn’t been the case yet. Looking at the graph on my logbook (which is open if anyone is interested), it does appear to me that I probably added about an hour onto my time getting on and off.

Converting watts into pace, using the calculator on concpet2 site, gives a pace of c.2:40.5/500m or a time of 10 hours 19 mins 48 seconds, clearly I cannot claim this was my pace, the end result is what it was but it does tie with my view that i added an hour on getting on and off.

I have been asked what i watched when rowing for over 11hrs, to which I reply the PM5!

I cannot erg at a consistent heart and stroke rate for any length of time without concentrating on what im doing. I needed to complete for a number of reason but not least my own personal pride and satisfaction so it was essential that i did not go too fast, going any slower did not bear thinking about!!.

Final thoughts

All in all my fitness never really troubled me, i always felt I could maintain the pace although I did have the odd psychological wobble. I set the monitor for a single variable interval of 115972m and in hindsight it might have been wiser to choose a number of intervals without a rest.

Watching the monitor creep down was particularly disheartening between 50k – 42Km, I cant really see an obvious reason why it should strike then but it was the ‘longest’ stretch by far in my mind.

The seating issue appears it may be posture related, when Eddie had looked at a video of me erging before the session, he had commented that I needed to sit up and I had raised the monitor up as high as it would go to encourage me to do so. Further investigations required on my part but it does seem plausible as despite the ‘damage’ I had caused, when I did get back on the erg sitting up did seem to make things better.

Some may recall I had a problem with a vitamin deficiency which set me back about 8 weeks. Whilst I repeated some weeks in an effort to get back up to the fitness I was before i had to take it easy, in truth I think I should have gone back further, perhaps even start the 100k plan again. I never re gained the pace I had and looking at the difference between my training pace for 100k and the actual sessions, I reckon I would have taken about 2 hours off my final time (PITA permitting).

Obviously, this is speculation but the point is in hindsight should I have re-started the plan. As it was what should have been a 14 week plan turned into 24 week plan. In the end i was where iw as and to be frank if I did not do my row when i did, it may never have had happened

For me, finishing was the only thing that mattered, up until I started training for this I had never rowed more than a HM and I was pleased to have finished.

Despite the issues, I will probably do further long distances and see what I can achieve, overall I have learnt a lot about what I am capable of as a 61 year old ‘novice’ and I intend to keep at it.

Maybe when the training starts again in a few months I may decide otherwise, right now I am not put off doing another 50 or 100k.
Age 61, on 2/01/22 I rowed 115,972m 11hrs 17m 57s and raised £19k for https://www.havenshospices.org.uk/ Thanks for all the support

Donations to https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... ctpossible

GlennUk
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by GlennUk » January 4th, 2022, 1:20 pm

P.S. For anyone who is interested i have managed to raise a little over £8600 and counting so all my efforts were not in vein.
Age 61, on 2/01/22 I rowed 115,972m 11hrs 17m 57s and raised £19k for https://www.havenshospices.org.uk/ Thanks for all the support

Donations to https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... ctpossible

fragandclear
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by fragandclear » January 4th, 2022, 1:57 pm

GlennUk wrote:
January 4th, 2022, 1:20 pm
P.S. For anyone who is interested i have managed to raise a little over £8600 and counting so all my efforts were not in vein.
I started Erging in September last year and this type of thing is incredible to me (long distances and especially the fact you went from a standing start to execution within a year).

It has definitely made me consider the benefit of coaching, proper planning and nutrition.

Thanks for posting your experience.
Erging since 09/21
Male 1.83m 96kg
500m - 1:30.0 | 2km - 6:56.3 | 5km - 18:42.2 | 30min - 7776 | 10km - 38:24.6 | 1hr - 15021 | HM - 1:26:16
Strava

GlennUk
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by GlennUk » January 4th, 2022, 2:07 pm

DavidA wrote:
January 3rd, 2022, 4:41 pm
GlennUk wrote:
January 3rd, 2022, 5:16 am
WOW!
Congratulations on completing that!
That is quite an achievement.

David
thanks David, much appreciated.
Age 61, on 2/01/22 I rowed 115,972m 11hrs 17m 57s and raised £19k for https://www.havenshospices.org.uk/ Thanks for all the support

Donations to https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... ctpossible

GlennUk
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by GlennUk » January 4th, 2022, 3:03 pm

MPx wrote:
January 3rd, 2022, 7:27 pm
Magnificant Glenn. Maybe not to plan A, but you prepped and planned so well you made it home anyway. Congrats - completely beyond anything I could imagine taking on.
Cheers for that and your support, i posted in the Sub 7 forum earlier to say thank you too.
Age 61, on 2/01/22 I rowed 115,972m 11hrs 17m 57s and raised £19k for https://www.havenshospices.org.uk/ Thanks for all the support

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max_ratcliffe
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by max_ratcliffe » January 5th, 2022, 3:50 am

GlennUk wrote:
January 4th, 2022, 1:20 pm
P.S. For anyone who is interested i have managed to raise a little over £8600 and counting so all my efforts were not in vein.
Amazing effort Glenn,

I can't imagine being on an erg for that lengths of time - 116k is an astonishing achievement. Thanks for the write-up too.
51 HWT
PBs:
Rower 1'=329m; 500m=1:34.0; 1k=3:25:1; 2k=7:16.5; 5k=19:44; 6k=23:24; 30'=7582m; 10k=40.28; 60'=14621m; HM=1:27:46
SkiErg 1'=309m; 500m=1:40.3; 1k=3:35.3; 2k=7:35.5; 5k=20:18; 6k=24:35; 30'=7239m; 10k=42:09; 60'=14209m; HM=1:32:24

GlennUk
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by GlennUk » January 5th, 2022, 6:03 am

max_ratcliffe wrote:
January 5th, 2022, 3:50 am
Amazing effort Glenn,

I can't imagine being on an erg for that lengths of time - 116k is an astonishing achievement. Thanks for the write-up too.
Thanks 116k is a long way, bizarrely on the Diamonds FB pages, two other over 60s erged 126k and 3 marathons( Erg, skierg and bike erg) in the same week as i did my session!
Age 61, on 2/01/22 I rowed 115,972m 11hrs 17m 57s and raised £19k for https://www.havenshospices.org.uk/ Thanks for all the support

Donations to https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... ctpossible

GlennUk
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by GlennUk » January 5th, 2022, 7:05 am

fragandclear wrote:
January 4th, 2022, 1:57 pm
I started Erging in September last year and this type of thing is incredible to me (long distances and especially the fact you went from a standing start to execution within a year).

It has definitely made me consider the benefit of coaching, proper planning and nutrition.

Thanks for posting your experience.



Thanks i thought i had responded to this post, good luck with whatever you do, a plan that works for you is essential imho.
Age 61, on 2/01/22 I rowed 115,972m 11hrs 17m 57s and raised £19k for https://www.havenshospices.org.uk/ Thanks for all the support

Donations to https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... ctpossible

Mal
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by Mal » January 6th, 2022, 9:26 am

GlennUK - that's an amazing effort! Congratulations. It is more mental than physical and you certainly had your challenges. Well done.

Malcolm
Mal Mewett
M 186cm 93kg b.1963
Rowing:2k 6:58.1, 5k 18:27.0,30 min 8043,10k 37:02.5, HM 1:21:34.5, FM 2:48:28.0, 50K 3:26:37.2, 100K 7:27:10.3
Skierg: 100km 7:56:40.8
Rowing since 2017, Skierg since 2019

GlennUk
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by GlennUk » January 6th, 2022, 11:19 am

Mal wrote:
January 6th, 2022, 9:26 am
GlennUK - that's an amazing effort! Congratulations. It is more mental than physical and you certainly had your challenges. Well done.

Malcolm
MAlcolm

thanks for that, appreciated. I found it odd that i had a psychological wobble after about 70K and i can treally work out why. Physically i found it tough (even at the pace i rowed at) but never felt i couldn't make it physically. The PITA was by biggest issue.

Still, I am taking some time off over the next couple of weeks and then will return to look at some old PBs for shorter distances as a complete change.

Im not abandoning endurance rows and will no doubt revisit the 50 and 100k distances in the future (assuming I remain fit and injury free of coursE).
Age 61, on 2/01/22 I rowed 115,972m 11hrs 17m 57s and raised £19k for https://www.havenshospices.org.uk/ Thanks for all the support

Donations to https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... ctpossible

GlennUk
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by GlennUk » February 21st, 2022, 6:09 am

Bit of an update regarding recovery.

The Eddie Fletcher training plan suggests that after a 100K it can take 8-12 weeks to recover fully.

I wasn't sure how the 116K would impact on me and after 2 weeks i sat of the erg intending to paddle for 30 mins. It was quite clear that my body wasn't recovered. Not only were my muscles tired, but it was somewhat uncomfortable to sit on the erg!!

I tried another week later and still felt similar and i started just paddling in the 3rd week and then started training after 6 weeks.

Having just completed my 1st week working on the marathon plan it will be interesting to see how my body/heart/lings adapt going forward.
Age 61, on 2/01/22 I rowed 115,972m 11hrs 17m 57s and raised £19k for https://www.havenshospices.org.uk/ Thanks for all the support

Donations to https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... ctpossible

GlennUk
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by GlennUk » February 21st, 2022, 6:36 am

Bit of an update regarding recovery.

The Eddie Fletcher training plan suggests that after a 100K it can take 8-12 weeks to recover fully.

I wasn't sure how the 116K would impact on me and after 2 weeks i sat of the erg intending to paddle for 30 mins. It was quite clear that my body wasn't recovered. Not only were my muscles tired, but it was somewhat uncomfortable to sit on the erg!!

I tried another week later and still felt similar and i started just paddling in the 3rd week and then started training after 6 weeks.

Having just completed my 1st week working on the marathon plan it will be interesting to see how my body/heart/lungs adapt going forward.
Age 61, on 2/01/22 I rowed 115,972m 11hrs 17m 57s and raised £19k for https://www.havenshospices.org.uk/ Thanks for all the support

Donations to https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... ctpossible

GlennUk
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Re: Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

Post by GlennUk » March 22nd, 2022, 3:50 am

now I am on week 4 of the EF marathon plan having had a bit of a stop start to the beginning of my training.

One of the things that is clear in the EF plans is that rest days are not optional and if necessary additional rest days are allowed. I used to worry about not keeping to the plan in case i did not see the benefits of the training desired, however that doesn't seem to be a problem when adding in the odd extra rest day here and there. As a thought, we all have lives to lead and for me, i find accepting some days it is just not practical to fit in a session in the way i want, i feel happier adding in a rest day, rather than trying to squeeze in the session in a 'rushed' fashion which in my view is likley to be less beneficial that completing in a good frame of mind.

Targets for me over the next few months/year are to post a proper marathon time, and improve my 50/100k times. Along the way will no doubt post some season rankings, possibly review previous PBs too.

For those interested in endurance erging, take a look at https://www.facebook.com/michas.kaffeetreff.9 he is part of the Diamonds, over 60s facebook group, and has just completed a 48hour erging sessionc.350km, who knows....maybe
Age 61, on 2/01/22 I rowed 115,972m 11hrs 17m 57s and raised £19k for https://www.havenshospices.org.uk/ Thanks for all the support

Donations to https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... ctpossible

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