"low Pull"

[old] Steelhead · Post by **[old] Steelhead** » November 9th, 2005, 4:45 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Carl Henrik @ Nov 9 2005, 01:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 9 2005, 07:40 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Carl,<br /><br />You will be shocked when you first start doing them, at how much more difficult they are.<br /><br />However they do provide great benefits.<br /><br />How long does it take to do 20x of the deadlift? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Someone once showed me the front squat and the over head squat. I didn't like any of them. Especially the over head version. But I gather the front squat - deadlift is a grat combo for general growth so will take the time to adapt to front squats. It will be fun I hope to learn. I can go to just front squats after that, reckon my back will be stable enough for awhile with all deadlifting done and rowing for maintenance. On the topic on which excercise is the best, I think there is no best excersice to choose for all rowers but that it's best to recognize the characteristics of each one of them and match with the specific rowers physique and mentality, if you have this luxury logistically in a group of rowers. I will start carefully with the front squats. Progressing from 40kg probably. <br /><br />I don't know how long it took. I had no rest though. Upon imminent grip failure, probably within a second from reaching the floor I had re-firmed my grip and re-secured the back and started pulling. I was cautious to breath from the very fist reps and I felt my endurance training was helping me at the end!<br /><br />I saw a clip of a power lifter doing 100x100kg squatting in 10 minutes. Perhaps I should work up the reps on 120kg deadlifts and see what time I can do 100 in! It's probably a different world to do 100 though! I'm half that guys size also. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Even though I know the importance of squats, I really really have a hard time forcing myself to do them! <br /><br />Are you working your legs once, twice, or thrice a week? I should probably shift my weightlifting routine so that I do my squats and deadlifts first (I work legs twice a week: (1) chest and shoulders (M & F); (2) back and arms (T & Th); (3) Legs (W & Sat)) -- i.e., after my day of rest start with legs on M instead of W, etc.<br /><br />Also, do you row when you do your leg weightlifting?<br /><br />

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » November 9th, 2005, 5:22 pm

I've done (back) squats earlier twice a week. I think they are great to get the whole leg strength and lower back stability package. When making weight for on water competition as a lwt I stopped all that though and just rowed. I had been doing squats twice a week prior to that and lost most mass from my legs I think. <br /><br />I had little problem mentaly with the squats. I did them with a restricted number of reps per set, not so many sets (5 progressively heavier) and focusing on quality to make it hard. I served my purposes well. Plateaued (spelling? ) with a bit extra leg mass and strength and good back stability. <br /><br />Now I do strength just once a week. Since I shifted squats to deadlifts in my routine, and gathered a beginners group to train and train with, I have started to gain strength over all. Before that it was pretty much no gains, but I was also quite content with the strength level I was at. <br /><br />If I haven't rowed very much the previous days I row easy after the weight session.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 9th, 2005, 5:36 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Steelhead @ Nov 9 2005, 12:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I should probably shift my weightlifting routine so that I do my squats and deadlifts first </td></tr></table><br /><br />We always did the heaviest lifts last, which is what I'd recommend to do.<br />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 9th, 2005, 5:50 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 9 2005, 01:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Steelhead @ Nov 9 2005, 12:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I should probably shift my weightlifting routine so that I do my squats and deadlifts first </td></tr></table><br /><br />We always did the heaviest lifts last, which is what I'd recommend to do. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Now John, this is a good recommendation. You should follow with an explanation as to why that is a good thing to do. This lends to your credibility and possibly future believability. After several good explanations along these lines you will establish a foundation on which you can make a recommendations in the short manner used above. However, before building such a foundation, it might be that such a short point may be ignored due to the readers previous experience with your postings, and in this case that would be a shame.

[old] remador · Post by **[old] remador** » November 10th, 2005, 11:02 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Let's not forget it was 150kg pressure at around 0 km/h though That might give you a quick start, or it might not, but can you deliver 150kg after that? What is you 300m erg score, Remador? I've done 48.9 s as a lwt. Do you know of any better score than that or am I the worlds fastest lwt erger over 300m? <br /><br />I almost guessed your location from your name, btw, "remador", it means "rower"? Actually I guessed Spain. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I never did a 300m max out, Carl. Maybe I'll try one of these days.<br /><br />As to your question, yes - it means rower. In spanish, I think they would say "remero", but I am not sure, at the moment. Maybe some spanish members could say whether it is so, or not.<br /><br /> <br /><br />AM

[old] ancho · Post by **[old] ancho** » November 10th, 2005, 11:23 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(remador @ Nov 10 2005, 04:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>As to your question, yes - it means rower. In spanish, I think they would say "remero", but I am not sure, at the moment. Maybe some spanish members could say whether it is so, or not.<br /><br /> <br /><br />AM <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well, in Spanish "remador" is perfectly understandable, but the usual name is "remero" (popular) or "vogador"(literate).<br />It should be easier for us than for PaulS to get with Remador on the same boat. We've got quite a full prgram in 2005, maybe soon (in 2006)?<br />Are you sometimes rowing in Spain? If you happen to be near Barcelona, don't miss a go in CEU-Rem (Castelldefels)!<br /><br />PaulS: Perhaps it's a bit early, but we are pretending to go to the World Masters in Princeton in 2006. Will you be there?

[old] remador · Post by **[old] remador** » November 10th, 2005, 11:53 am

Ancho,<br /><br />I know some portuguese <i>remadores</i> participated, last year, in some traditional rowing events near Barcelona, and they found it great! I guess they'll come back. As to me, when and if I got the time, I'll give it a try.<br /><br />AM

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 10th, 2005, 1:16 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ancho @ Nov 10 2005, 07:23 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>PaulS: Perhaps it's a bit early, but we are pretending to go to the World Masters in Princeton in 2006. Will you be there? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Definitely under consideration. It will have some dependencies on work schedule. However, WMG 2009 in AUS are on the calendar. <br />

[old] Dickie · Post by **[old] Dickie** » November 10th, 2005, 1:26 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 9 2005, 05:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Steelhead @ Nov 9 2005, 12:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I should probably shift my weightlifting routine so that I do my squats and deadlifts first </td></tr></table><br /><br />We always did the heaviest lifts last, which is what I'd recommend to do. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />When I lifted seriously, we always did the big 3 (Squat, Deadlift or Bench Press) first. These exercises require concentration to avoid injury, doing them at the end of the workout, when you are tired or not paying attention the way you should, may be a recipe for disaster.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 10th, 2005, 1:31 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Nov 10 2005, 09:26 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>When I lifted seriously, we always did the big 3 (Squat, Deadlift or Bench Press) first. These exercises require concentration to avoid injury, doing them at the end of the workout, when you are tired or not paying attention the way you should, may be a recipe for disaster. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Not bad reasoning, but "not paying attention the way you should", is the same recipe for disaster when weight training (or putting the body under unusual stress), no matter what the weight or how tired you are.<br /><br />Surely, you must have done some type of warming up for "the big 3"?

[old] Dickie · Post by **[old] Dickie** » November 10th, 2005, 2:07 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 10 2005, 01:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Nov 10 2005, 09:26 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>When I lifted seriously, we always did the big 3 (Squat, Deadlift or Bench Press) first. These exercises require concentration to avoid injury, doing them at the end of the workout, when you are tired or not paying attention the way you should, may be a recipe for disaster. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Not bad reasoning, but "not paying attention the way you should", is the same recipe for disaster when weight training (or putting the body under unusual stress), no matter what the weight or how tired you are.<br /><br />Surely, you must have done some type of warming up for "the big 3"? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />True, but not paying attention while curling 40 pound dumbells is less risky than not paying attention during a 500 pound squat. I never aim to be inattentive during lifting, but its much harder to remain attentive when you are tired, and why take the chance when a momentary lapse could send you to the hospital.<br /><br />I have not lifted seriously in 10 years (my joints are sending me messages that it is not a good idea, so I decided to get out before I injured myself), but when I did train, the thinking was that the major exercises provided the best opportunity for gains and those gains would materialize faster if you did the exercises while fresh when you could handle more weight. The assistance exercises were put off until later in the workout.<br /><br />I have stated in these forums before that I never warmup before a race on the erg, while that is true for the erg, it was not true when I lifted. I did not do any overall body warmup, like calisthenics, but I did do warmup sets on each major lift. For instance when squatting I would perform the following<br /><br />225 x 10 - my warmup set<br />275 x 8<br />325 x 6<br />375 x 4<br />425 x 2<br />450 x 2<br />475 x 1<br />475 x 1<br /><br />My best squat ever was 500 pounds at 23 years old at a bodyweight of 181. I was able to maintain my max squat at 500 until I was 36, but my weight crept up to 230 pounds.<br />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 10th, 2005, 2:19 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Nov 10 2005, 10:07 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>For instance when squatting I would perform the following<br /><br />225 x 10 - my warmup set<br />275 x 8<br />325 x 6<br />375 x 4<br />425 x 2<br />450 x 2<br />475 x 1<br />475 x 1<br /><br />My best squat ever was 500 pounds at 23 years old at a bodyweight of 181. I was able to maintain my max squat at 500 until I was 36, but my weight crept up to 230 pounds. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Okay, so we're dealing with semantics. I would be able to argue convincingly that all of what lead up the the top 2 lifts was a fair bit of a "workout" and that the Heaviest were "last". <br /><br />Seems also that since your bodyweight increased that your strength did also. <br />500 + 70% of 181 < 500 + 70% of 230 (70% being a conservative estimate of how much bodyweight is also moved through the full distance that the bar moved.)<br /><br />Coming from a background of what I would call "significant absolute strength", do you think that the Erg can provide more than enough resistance to maintain and gain strength? (Gains of course may be limitted by the ravages of time, but at least we can keep our endurance.)

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 10th, 2005, 3:18 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 9 2005, 05:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>We always did the heaviest lifts last, which is what I'd recommend to do.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Nov 10 2005, 09:26 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>When I lifted seriously, we always did the big 3 (Squat, Deadlift or Bench Press) first. These exercises require concentration to avoid injury, doing them at the end of the workout, when you are tired or not paying attention the way you should, may be a recipe for disaster. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Fred,<br /><br />You are talking about powerlifting, not Olympic Weightlifting.<br /><br />For Olympic Weightlifting you always do the technique training first, and the heavy lifts last. We did something like this.<br /><br />Stretching<br />Snatch - lighter lifts to warm up first<br />Clean & Jerk<br />Cleans from Boxes<br />Snatch squats from Rack<br />Heavy Squats<br />Stand up from overhead C&J position on Rack<br /><br />Not every exercise was done every session. We usually had 3 sessions each week. Snatches and C&J's were done every session.<br /><br />By the way, the Snatch squats from Rack and Stand up from overhead C&J position on Rack were my invention.<br /><br />The American Record Holder in the Snatch came to visit our gym for training, told me it was a great exercise and started doing it regularly.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 10th, 2005, 3:27 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 10 2005, 11:18 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>By the way, the Snatch squats from Rack and Stand up from overhead C&J position on Rack were my invention.<br /><br />The American Record Holder in the Snatch came to visit our gym for training, told me it was a great exercise and started doing it regularly. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Was that before or after the idea you came up with to lift a calf every day as it grew into a bull?

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » November 10th, 2005, 3:34 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(remador @ Nov 10 2005, 03:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I never did a 300m max out, Carl. Maybe I'll try one of these days.<br /><br /> <br /><br />AM <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It will be a respectable score I'm sure. I'm looking forward to it

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