New to indoor rowing question

[jamesg]

By no means at 65 almost 66 do I expect to do the 2 minute pace for long periods of time at 17 S/M . I just wanted to know how it is possible .

That needs high average handle force and a long stroke: about 50kg and 1.2m net length.

At rating 20, 50 x g x 1.2 x 20/60 = 196W, almost 2 minute pace. Note the Watt/Rating ratio: almost 10. This is the amount of Work in the stroke.

There's only one thing to learn in rowing: how to pull a big stroke with the right sequence. Once we have that stroke, we can train by pulling plenty of them. Typical work is 3 or 5k, or 30 minutes, or 5 minute intervals.

If you have a big stroke, you won't need to rate more than 21-22 to train endurance. This is typical of rowing (and erging). Boats and flywheels don't stop between strokes, so we let them go, and rest enough to make the next stroke a big one.

See the C2 technique page: https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

[Carl Watts]

Basically your pace is a cubic law as it relates to the Watts you produce. So to double any given pace takes 8 times the amount of power.

Moving from 3 minute pace to 2:30 pace is relatively easy. The closer you get to 2 minute pace the disproportionately harder it gets.

Lower ratings make it harder still as you have even less time to put the required power into the flywheel to give you the average 200W at 2:00 min pace.

Put simply at 2:00 min pace at 20 spm you need to be putting 600W into each stroke. Looking at ErgData my peak force is 50% higher than my average force so that probably means you need to hit something like a 900W peak during the drive due to the fact the power delivery is like a sinewave and not a square wave.

[electricstart]

I did a quick row today did not track meters and really worked on form and strong catch and slower recovery . Not sure I could do 5000m this way but did get my stroke rate down 19 and pace 210 . Had a nice force curve too. I did not look at watts . I do understand how it is done now (not easy) and I do have pretty strong legs from squats . There really is a lot to this rowing and thanks again for all the great advice . Tomorrow is my 5000 m work out so I plan to do intervals so I can really work on the catch and recovery and my form like some one suggested and see how long I can go. Not really worried about distance at this point .

[Carl Watts]

Sounds pretty good to me.

I suspect by the time I'm 65 I will be quite happy going 2:15 pace at 20spm for 5000 meters.

[electricstart]

Sounds pretty good to me.

I suspect by the time I'm 65 I will be quite happy going 2:15 pace at 20spm for 5000 meters.

Carl it was a very short period of time . Just trying to figure out how it is done. No way I will do that pace for 5000m .I am good with 230 pace 24 s/m for 5000m and that is hard for this old man .

Thank You

[Tsnor]

Sounds pretty good to me.

I suspect by the time I'm 65 I will be quite happy going 2:15 pace at 20spm for 5000 meters.

Carl it was a very short period of time . Just trying to figure out how it is done. No way I will do that pace for 5000m .I am good with 230 pace 24 s/m for 5000m and that is hard for this old man .

Thank You

If you have fun rowing then you'll find that age is not really that much of a problem. I'm racing in a 4+ this weekend, average age in boat (for handicap) is 60, 5K erg times are under 20 mins. And we don't have the 70 year old in our boat, he's also under 20 mins (1:59 pace). You're just starting with rowing. Your times are going to come way down for the same effort as your stroke gets better and your body adapts to rowing.

[electricstart]

Sounds pretty good to me.

I suspect by the time I'm 65 I will be quite happy going 2:15 pace at 20spm for 5000 meters.

Carl it was a very short period of time . Just trying to figure out how it is done. No way I will do that pace for 5000m .I am good with 230 pace 24 s/m for 5000m and that is hard for this old man .

Thank You

If you have fun rowing then you'll find that age is not really that much of a problem. I'm racing in a 4+ this weekend, average age in boat (for handicap) is 60, 5K erg times are under 20 mins. And we don't have the 70 year old in our boat, he's also under 20 mins (1:59 pace). You're just starting with rowing. Your times are going to come way down for the same effort as your stroke gets better and your body adapts to rowing.

I have been following Pete's beginner plan and am reducing pace and S/M Hard but having fun doing it .Not sure I will ever see numbers those guys are posting time will tell .

Thank You

[electricstart]

Pete's Plan first week

Splits
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
24:18.0 5,000m 2:25.8 113 688 21 134
4:40.0 1,000m 2:20.0 128 738 21 130
4:53.0 2,000m 2:26.5 111 683 23 131
4:59.2 3,000m 2:29.6 105 659 21 129
4:55.4 4,000m 2:27.7 109 673 21 136
4:50.4 5,000m 2:25.2 114 693 21

Intervals
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
13:34.4 3,000m 2:15.7 140 781 19
2:19.0 500m 2:19.0 130 748 20
2:15.1 500m 2:15.1 142 788 20
2:14.6 500m 2:14.6 144 793 20
2:16.3 500m 2:16.3 138 775 19
2:17.1 500m 2:17.1 136 767 18
2:12.2 500m 2:12.2 151 821 19

[hjs]

Pete's Plan first week

Splits
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
24:18.0 5,000m 2:25.8 113 688 21 134
4:40.0 1,000m 2:20.0 128 738 21 130
4:53.0 2,000m 2:26.5 111 683 23 131
4:59.2 3,000m 2:29.6 105 659 21 129
4:55.4 4,000m 2:27.7 109 673 21 136
4:50.4 5,000m 2:25.2 114 693 21

Intervals
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
13:34.4 3,000m 2:15.7 140 781 19
2:19.0 500m 2:19.0 130 748 20
2:15.1 500m 2:15.1 142 788 20
2:14.6 500m 2:14.6 144 793 20
2:16.3 500m 2:16.3 138 775 19
2:17.1 500m 2:17.1 136 767 18
2:12.2 500m 2:12.2 151 821 19

For intervals, the goal is not to use low spm, but focus on pace. Spm during intervals is, per definition higher, than on a longer steady piece. A next time, forget spm and just focus on effort/pace. Would be my advice..

[btlifter]

Pete's Plan first week

Splits
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
24:18.0 5,000m 2:25.8 113 688 21 134
4:40.0 1,000m 2:20.0 128 738 21 130
4:53.0 2,000m 2:26.5 111 683 23 131
4:59.2 3,000m 2:29.6 105 659 21 129
4:55.4 4,000m 2:27.7 109 673 21 136
4:50.4 5,000m 2:25.2 114 693 21

Intervals
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
13:34.4 3,000m 2:15.7 140 781 19
2:19.0 500m 2:19.0 130 748 20
2:15.1 500m 2:15.1 142 788 20
2:14.6 500m 2:14.6 144 793 20
2:16.3 500m 2:16.3 138 775 19
2:17.1 500m 2:17.1 136 767 18
2:12.2 500m 2:12.2 151 821 19

For intervals, the goal is not to use low spm, but focus on pace. Spm during intervals is, per definition higher, than on a longer steady piece. A next time, forget spm and just focus on effort/pace. Would be my advice..

I agree with HJS. And, do does "Pete".

[electricstart]

Ok
Thank You

[electricstart]

Splits
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
24:32.7 5,000m 2:27.2 110 677 23 134
4:54.1 1,000m 2:27.0 110 678 23 121
4:57.0 2,000m 2:28.5 107 667 22 129
4:56.6 3,000m 2:28.3 107 669 24 136
4:55.8 4,000m 2:27.9 108 672 24 139
4:49.1 5,000m 2:24.5 116 698 25 146

Todays work out S/M went up a little but pace also went up .Only my first week on Pete's Plan .

[jamesg]

5 October: 24:18.0 5,000m 2:25.8 113 688 21 134: 113/21=5.4 W'/stroke
6 October: 24:32.7 5,000m 2:27.2 110 677 23 134: 110/23=4.8 W'/stroke

The first was better. Happens, when you chase rating.

[mitchel674]

Perhaps the OP needs to read more about stroke rate for each of the different sessions in the Pete Plan. This is a common question, as Pete does not really address this in the published versions.

As a rule, the increasing long rows each week are your steady state pieces. These are generally done at lower stroke rate (20-22spm) and pace.

The interval sessions are done at higher stroke rate and pace. Most would row the 500m interval session at stroke rates of 26spm or higher.

[electricstart]

I was rowing at a comfortable pace for me . Mostly looking at force curve for my form . I figure as I get in better shape pace times will get better as they have already since I started . Before Pete's plan .My first workout in Pete's plan I was trying to get S/M down and it worked. I do understand the intervals are for speed not S/M so next time I will not look at S/M .

Thanks for all great advice