Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

[max_ratcliffe]

Ok, so completed my 100K - 7:27:10.3. Happy to have completed it, but the 2:13.9 splits were a bit slower than I would have liked. This was my rookie 100K and I'll give it another attempt in 2 years when I am 60. I made a few rookie mistakes, but I'll post a review in a couple of days when I have recovered somewhat... Many thanks to the Eddie Fletcher Plan - this plan gives you a real confidence that you have prepared as well as you cold have.

On to th next goal.

Well done Mal. Tremendous effort at a cracking pace too.

[Dutch]

Ok, so completed my 100K - 7:27:10.3. Happy to have completed it, but the 2:13.9 splits were a bit slower than I would have liked. This was my rookie 100K and I'll give it another attempt in 2 years when I am 60. I made a few rookie mistakes, but I'll post a review in a couple of days when I have recovered somewhat... Many thanks to the Eddie Fletcher Plan - this plan gives you a real confidence that you have prepared as well as you cold have.

On to th next goal.

Well done mal, amazing effort and mental strength.

[Dangerscouse]

Ok, so completed my 100K - 7:27:10.3. Happy to have completed it, but the 2:13.9 splits were a bit slower than I would have liked. This was my rookie 100K and I'll give it another attempt in 2 years when I am 60. I made a few rookie mistakes, but I'll post a review in a couple of days when I have recovered somewhat... Many thanks to the Eddie Fletcher Plan - this plan gives you a real confidence that you have prepared as well as you cold have.

On to th next goal.

That's a really great result Mal. There are so many chances to make mistakes with the 100, both prior and during, that it's difficult to not avoid them. Your mind isn't operating normally in the second 50k so irrational thoughts abound.

[pagomichaelh]

Ok, so completed my 100K - 7:27:10.3. Happy to have completed it, but the 2:13.9 splits were a bit slower than I would have liked. This was my rookie 100K and I'll give it another attempt in 2 years when I am 60. I made a few rookie mistakes, but I'll post a review in a couple of days when I have recovered somewhat... Many thanks to the Eddie Fletcher Plan - this plan gives you a real confidence that you have prepared as well as you cold have.

On to th next goal.

Good on you! Outstanding!

[Mal]

Thank you for the kind messages regarding my 100K 2 days ago. I am rested up and apart from some strange niggles - injury free. A month of steady recovery (some light rowing only) - then on to something else.

So here is a quick review...

Positives - firstly I had a strong fitness base, have done numerous FMs and 50K rows over the last 2 years. So I started the Eddie Fletcher 14 week plan well prepared. The plan was good and I stuck to it relatively closely. Best thing it has done for me was to force my stroke rate lower (usually sat at approx. 24 - now at about 20). The EF plan is based on HR and I enjoyed the technical aspects of understanding this. The plan gave me good confidence I had done all I possibly could leading into the event.

My mindset was also in a good place on the day - I knew there would be some pain, but I was ready for it - so when it hit, I actually embraced it as I knew it was part of the process.

Based on my FM PB time (just under a 2:00/500m pace), I thought I could achieve a 2:10 pace as a benchmark. I broke the row down to some targets:

1. Finish
2. Stretch target time 7 hours, Overall target - under 8 hours
3. Maintain a HR 80-85%. As I have a very low resting HR (and subsequent low max. HR) - this was between 130 - 138.
4. Enjoy it

So to finish at 7 hours 27 minutes (2:13.9/500m) was within the target - but I can't help feel I could have done better (this is a personal trait unfortunately!).

Where can I improve next time?

1. I am a New Zealander, but have been working in the Mediterranean area for a long time. Hence, I prepared for the row in the middle of a very hot summer. Although the event was quite cool - I'd advise doing the long preparatory work in cooler climes.
2. I travel quite a bit for work, hence I was always paranoid I would miss training. So I had a week to spare before the event (I worked the EF plan one week ahead in case of travel). I was full of beans, so did a hard 26k 5 days before the event. Result - little bit of calf tightness which ended up being problematic. That 26k row was not n the EF plan!
3. I am not a heavy sweater, so do not actually drink a lot of fluids - I usually do a 50K with 2 or 3 cups of water only. But leading into the event, I maybe read too much into getting my fluids up - so I drank probably too much in the lead up - possibly flushing out body salts (this is theoretical only).
4. I usually balance my erg work with simple weight training (simple 5 x 5s). As I had a high workload (EF plan plus long business/work hours & travel) - I dropped the 5 x 5s for the lead up 3 months in order to provide focus. I think this was a mistake. Next time I'll keep the balance, but maybe reduce the weight intensity on the 5 x 5s.

So what happened in the row...

I got a calf cramp at the 15k mark. This had never happened to me before whilst rowing (although I was a notorious cramper when younger playing competitive sports). This was not a good start. I then had to actually stand up and stretch every 7-10k when a cramp attack occurred. It gradually got worse between 20-75k, migrating to my quads.

I had some bananas on hand, so sprinkled them with salt and although it didn't eliminate the cramps, it kept them at bay. The problem was 2 fold; I had to change my leg drive to my arms a bit which resulted in a poor form, I had to stand to stretch frequently (I usually do a 50k without a stop) slowing the pace.

There is a positive to this problem... it forced me to slow my HR to 75-80% and the stretches helped my backside pain (which we are all too familiar with). So cramps aside, the row was actually quite enjoyable. My average HR for the row was 128, SR 21, DF 120.

Summary - Give it a go, but prepare well, particularly in your mindset. Despite the early cramps, my mind was able to conceptualize it as a positive and made me less competitive & more focused.

Where to from here - one month to recover. Focus on a 2k PB by Xmas. 2022 - Big event will be a FM. 2023 - I turn 60, will have a decent shot at another 100K!

Life is good.

[missing1leg]

Intro, Catharsis, and Questions

TLDR: All of you in here are amazing! I tell a long boring story about my first marathon that it is helpful for me to write even if no one reads it. Skip down to the end for the questions!

Story:

I'm David (6' male, 205lb, 44 years old) and was first introduced to rowing back in 2004 by one of the trainers for the Denver Broncos who gifted me a Schwinn air-rower after my injury in Iraq which resulted in the amputation of my right leg via hip disarticulation (full removal of the right femur). I used it some and quite liked the motion and this was helped along by the fact there are a very very limited number of machine based cardio options for lower limb amputees and I despise arm-cycles. Fast forward a fair few years and me not taking care of myself at all and in 2016 I found myself weighing almost 300lb (army weight was 210lb) and needing to make some life changes. I had a buddy who I started going to the gym with doing heavy lifting and I incorporated rowing on the facility C2s about 4 times a week. I had no plan or goal and just hopped on the machine for an hour or so on non-lifting days.

Well due to me letting my life get in the way again, my buddy and I both fell off this fitness wagon near the end of 2017 and by the start of this year (2021) I was all the way back up to 288lb and now was being put on some blood pressure meds. I hate meds. A lot. So I looked back at what we had been doing and what worked and why it stopped working. And I put myself on the waiting list for a C2 in January as a Christmas present to myself. It showed up in time for my birthday in April and I started on the Beginner Pete Plan with my younger brother as a training partner since he got his machine a few days after mine. When the start of season challenges showed up in May, we decided we'd try a half-marathon. I took a super conservative pace of 2:45 (about 10s slower than my steady state pace back then) and knocked the thing out. It wasn't even terribly bad all things considered. It took me 1h54m45s and only started to be a little uncomfortable towards the very end. At the start of June I joined my local YMCA and started lifting again. In mid July, 15 weeks into the BPP, I decided I could hit 1 million meters by the end of the 24 week plan if I just added in an extra 25 minute slow recovery row at the end of whatever the session for the day was. So I did. I got my 1 million pin and t-shirt sent out on 7 September!

As the final weeks of the plan rolled around I decided my next 2 goals would be a sub-8 minute 2k and a 3h30minute marathon. Since I hate sprints anyways, I decided I'd focus on the marathon goal first and the plan would be to do it on 1 January. Looking around I found what I think is an older copy of the Eddie Fletcher plan and read though it a few times to understand what the training was accomplishing and how and realized that thanks to the 25mins a day extra I was already doing roughly the volume of training he was recommending. So I when I finished out week 24 of the BPP on 10 September, I decided I'd take the next week and just do the taper week 2 and get a benchmark time for a marathon on Monday the 20th. This would inform how far from the 2:29.3 pace I was if I wanted to finish in 3.5h.

Well, this past Monday rolled around. I was sticking to the adage you race the way you train. I think due to some nervousness, I woke up a little early (0430 as opposed to 0500-0515) and had my half bottle of water (.5L) that I always drink before my rowing workouts and at 0500 hopped on the rower and set it to the 42,195. I let my drag factor at the same 140 I do all my workouts at. I do intermittent fasting with a feeding window of 0800-1400. So about 1330 Sunday was the last time I ate. I always do my workouts (rowing and lifting) first thing in the morning at the end of my fast window and it didn't even occur to me that I should do anything differently for this. I had spent the taper week getting used to wearing my camelback during rowing so I wouldn't have to stop to drink the way I had during the half marathon. I knew my overall pace target was 2:29.3 if I was making a 3.5h run so I decided I would shoot for 2:27 for the first half and that would give me some wiggle room on the back half if I needed to get up and move around to stretch my leg/glute. This was again about 10s slower than my current 10k pace so I felt that was as good a benchmark as anything.

Well, the first half went great. I had a nice consistent pace of 2:27 at a rate of 18-19 which is perfectly normal for me. So that effectively meant I knocked 11 minutes off my half-marathon time in the 4 months since I had done it. I felt good but made the decision to slow my pace to 2:30 to finish out the rest. Part of this pace decision was mental. The 25 minute extra sessions which had started at 2:45 had gradually increased in pace to 2:30 by the end of the 10 weeks I had been doing them. In my head, I knew I could always take a couple minutes off and row another 25min at 2:30 because I had been doing that for a month or so anyways so at no point did I ever think I would be unable to finish the marathon. How many breaks it required was in the air but that wasn't the point of this one.

The next 8k went by nice and easy. I adjusted my position on the seat a couple times, but held a clean 2:30r18-19. Then I lost focus. Cumulative fatigue really kicked in and from 30-36k my pace was super erratic jumping up to 2:34, 2:32, 2:36 for those 3 2k intervals. My hamstring and glute were really starting to hurt. Mentally I zoned out here. I honestly don't remember this segment of the piece at all. Then, 2 things happened. First, a blister which I didn't realize had formed on the outside of right ring finger burst. This was developed from that finger bumping the camelback nozzle 3k times. Not to self, get a magnet glued to the chest strap so the nozzle is held there instead. This immediate finger pain took all focus off the leg issues and my brain woke back up enough to see where I was at on the overall time. Second, my playlist stopped. Apparently its only 2h55m long. Now instead of almost 2 minutes to spare to make overall time, I had about 45s of wiggle room. I thought about take a 15s break to stretch my glutes but as soon as I paused at the back of the stroke I felt every muscle in my leg start to seize up and realized if I full stopped at all, there was a real and meaningful possibility I would not be able to start again. So I drank some more water and buckled down for the last 6k holding a clean 2:30r20.

And with that my final time was 3:29:26.3! A full 33.7s faster than the goal I had for myself for January. I had to sit for a solid 5 minutes to let my upper calf unknot before I could get off the machine and then had to have my wife bring me some chip-ahoy cookies and a pear to stop me from passing out. But otherwise, by Wednesday I felt good enough to put in a solid 6k piece, a 5k Thursday and a slow (2:30) 10k Friday. I did skip out on all my lifting for the week though.

Questions:

So with that goal obtained, the two ways forward as I see it are longer or faster. I've never really been a faster person. Load up my ruck and I could walk for eternity, but make me run my 2 mile PT test and I'd die at the end every time. So with that in mind, my new goal is to do a 50k for New Year's with a possible goal of doing a 100k for start of next season in May.

1. A lot of you (I read this whole thread) are using the Eddie Fletcher training guide for these ultra long pieces. Did any of you do any weight lifting concurrent with the rowing training? Why or why not? If you did, where did you work it in in relation to the rest days of the rowing plan?

2. Do you feel the Fletcher ultra distance plan was worth the cost? As I said, I have an early version of the marathon guide which has definitely been insightful and I recognize that there is a world of difference between a marathon and a 100k. But this is an expensive investment for me right now and I guess I'd like some personal testimonials from people who used it before I commit to it.

3. Because I row with a single leg, all general pace information is mostly useless. So the heart rate approach of the EF plan seems like it is probably going to provide the best guidance for me outside of a lot of very detailed personal training which I cannot afford and likely would struggle to find in any case even if I could. Since I've never worked with a heart rate monitor, is there anything in particular to watch for when shopping for one and/or does anyone have any recommendations?

If you read all the way though this, thanks for sharing in my journey and I look forward to more of the stories you all share as well and thanks in advance for any help with my questions! Feel free to ask me anything as I certainly don't mind answering questions about myself or my journey if anyone has them.

[DavidA]

Intro, Catharsis, and Questions

TLDR: All of you in here are amazing! I tell a long boring story about my first marathon that it is helpful for me to write even if no one reads it. Skip down to the end for the questions!

Story:

Congratulations on the FM, and on getting yourself back to better health and fitness!
That is great time.
Good luck with your next challenge.

David

[Dangerscouse]

1. A lot of you (I read this whole thread) are using the Eddie Fletcher training guide for these ultra long pieces. Did any of you do any weight lifting concurrent with the rowing training? Why or why not? If you did, where did you work it in in relation to the rest days of the rowing plan?

2. Do you feel the Fletcher ultra distance plan was worth the cost? As I said, I have an early version of the marathon guide which has definitely been insightful and I recognize that there is a world of difference between a marathon and a 100k. But this is an expensive investment for me right now and I guess I'd like some personal testimonials from people who used it before I commit to it.

3. Because I row with a single leg, all general pace information is mostly useless. So the heart rate approach of the EF plan seems like it is probably going to provide the best guidance for me outside of a lot of very detailed personal training which I cannot afford and likely would struggle to find in any case even if I could. Since I've never worked with a heart rate monitor, is there anything in particular to watch for when shopping for one and/or does anyone have any recommendations?

If you read all the way though this, thanks for sharing in my journey and I look forward to more of the stories you all share as well and thanks in advance for any help with my questions! Feel free to ask me anything as I certainly don't mind answering questions about myself or my journey if anyone has them.

Great story David, and well done for completing a FM. Many of us don't ever even think about doing it, and completing it with one leg is hugely impressive.

1) I didn't stop weight training, and I also carried on with pilates, and I've not really slowed down too much with my longer distances, so I use Thursday as only a weights day, and Sunday & Monday as dynamic Pilates days, with long steady rows too. This is quite subjective so you need to have a play around and find what works for you, but I'd recommend doing some weight training, if only some form of calisthenics.

2) I've not used the plan, but I've heard it's good. IME, it's more about proper preparation, which I haven't done, and mental toughness. There are some other things too, but I wouldn't suggest it's vital to buy the plan if it's too expensive for you, and it is expensive.

3) I use a CooSpo HR, but I've also used a Wahoo Tickr, and both are cheap and very reliable. CooSpo, and possibly Wahoo too, can be used with the Polar Beat free app to track your HR more effectively, with a graph and times in specific HR zones. All you really need to check for is that it's preferably got ANT+ as well as Bluetooth and it's a chest strap. Everything else isn't essential.

Good luck with the training

[Tsnor]

Intro, Catharsis, and Questions

TLDR: All of you in here are amazing! I tell a long boring story about my first marathon that it is helpful for me to write even if no one reads it. Skip down to the end for the questions!

Story:

I'm David (6' male, 205lb, 44 years old) and was first introduced to rowing back in 2004 by one of the trainers for the Denver Broncos who gifted me a Schwinn air-rower after my injury in Iraq which resulted in the amputation of my right leg via hip disarticulation (full removal of the right femur)....

I watch the NorCal Cycling channel on youtube, https://www.youtube.com/c/NorCalCycling, it's mainly crit bike racing. One rider who shows up in the video occasionally has a full leg amputation. He also has an FTP of 300+ watts. He can't hang with the 1000 watt sprinters, but is there at the front of the pack at the finish.

Don't concede rowing pace or stroke time. The body is amazingly adaptable. You may find yourself ranking workouts in the top 50% of your agegroup. FTP of 300 watts (300 watts for an hour cycling) is in the range of a 7 min 2K (300 less efficient rowing watts).

[pagomichaelh]

Intro, Catharsis, and Questions

TLDR: All of you in here are amazing! I tell a long boring story about my first marathon that it is helpful for me to write even if no one reads it. Skip down to the end for the questions!

Story:

...

Questions:

So with that goal obtained, the two ways forward as I see it are longer or faster. I've never really been a faster person. Load up my ruck and I could walk for eternity, but make me run my 2 mile PT test and I'd die at the end every time. So with that in mind, my new goal is to do a 50k for New Year's with a possible goal of doing a 100k for start of next season in May.

1. A lot of you (I read this whole thread) are using the Eddie Fletcher training guide for these ultra long pieces. Did any of you do any weight lifting concurrent with the rowing training? Why or why not? If you did, where did you work it in in relation to the rest days of the rowing plan?

2. Do you feel the Fletcher ultra distance plan was worth the cost? As I said, I have an early version of the marathon guide which has definitely been insightful and I recognize that there is a world of difference between a marathon and a 100k. But this is an expensive investment for me right now and I guess I'd like some personal testimonials from people who used it before I commit to it.

3. Because I row with a single leg, all general pace information is mostly useless. So the heart rate approach of the EF plan seems like it is probably going to provide the best guidance for me outside of a lot of very detailed personal training which I cannot afford and likely would struggle to find in any case even if I could. Since I've never worked with a heart rate monitor, is there anything in particular to watch for when shopping for one and/or does anyone have any recommendations?

If you read all the way though this, thanks for sharing in my journey and I look forward to more of the stories you all share as well and thanks in advance for any help with my questions! Feel free to ask me anything as I certainly don't mind answering questions about myself or my journey if anyone has them.

First, thanks for posting. To your questions:
(1) No, no weight training. I have an odd work day, 0500-~0730 seven days/week (sometimes longer), but also 1130-1500 (or so) teaching, so time is an issue, wedged in between the two jobs. Also, I REALLY need the recover days! After my workout, I'll have a shower, a snack, and a 20 minute nap for recovery before I go to teach. I don't have it in me to add weight training. I will do one to three sets of pushups, 50-70 reps each, 'just because'.

(2)Yes, I do think it was worth it. On the marathon plan, I saw a substancal improvement. I did the Wolverine for a while, but it's really geared to sprinting and, similar to you, I'm no sprinter (Recon platoon, 1/54 Infantry, 71-74, all of my body parts, but deaf as a stump).

(3) I'm using a Polar 9 belt on a different brand monitor, but it will occasionally drop out. I think this is some corrosion on the snaps (living in a tropical rain forest, what doesn't rot, corrodes), and burnishing everything prior to exercising seems to help that.

[GlennUk]

Ok, so completed my 100K - 7:27:10.3. Happy to have completed it, but the 2:13.9 splits were a bit slower than I would have liked. This was my rookie 100K and I'll give it another attempt in 2 years when I am 60. I made a few rookie mistakes, but I'll post a review in a couple of days when I have recovered somewhat... Many thanks to the Eddie Fletcher Plan - this plan gives you a real confidence that you have prepared as well as you cold have.

On to th next goal.

Congrats Mal, an impressive time, looking forward to hearing about your plans and reading the next posts.

[GlennUk]

My mindset was also in a good place on the day - I knew there would be some pain, but I was ready for it - so when it hit, I actually embraced it as I knew it was part of the process.

Based on my FM PB time (just under a 2:00/500m pace), I thought I could achieve a 2:10 pace as a benchmark. I broke the row down to some targets:

1. Finish
2. Stretch target time 7 hours, Overall target - under 8 hours
3. Maintain a HR 80-85%. As I have a very low resting HR (and subsequent low max. HR) - this was between 130 - 138.
4. Enjoy it

In my prep for my 60k earlier this year i took a very similar view, it seems to me the psychological aspects of endurance rowing (probably all endurance sports) is the mental aspects, get it wrong on the day and perhaps don't bother, or maybe i should say defer for another day when your mind is right.

So to finish at 7 hours 27 minutes (2:13.9/500m) was within the target - but I can't help feel I could have done better (this is a personal trait unfortunately!).

I know that feeling!

2. I travel quite a bit for work, hence I was always paranoid I would miss training. So I had a week to spare before the event (I worked the EF plan one week ahead in case of travel). I was full of beans, so did a hard 26k 5 days before the event. Result - little bit of calf tightness which ended up being problematic. That 26k row was not n the EF plan!

I guess this re-enforces the mantra stick to your plan, whatever it may be.

3. I am not a heavy sweater, so do not actually drink a lot of fluids - I usually do a 50K with 2 or 3 cups of water only. But leading into the event, I maybe read too much into getting my fluids up - so I drank probably too much in the lead up - possibly flushing out body salts (this is theoretical only).

Ive struggled with fluid intake targets, i would probably drink more than you but not the amount often quoted. For context in my 60k i drank about a litre over 5 hours, whereas if id followed the 'rules' i woul dhave drunk c.4litres.

Summary - Give it a go, but prepare well, particularly in your mindset. Despite the early cramps, my mind was able to conceptualize it as a positive and made me less competitive & more focused.

Where to from here - one month to recover. Focus on a 2k PB by Xmas. 2022 - Big event will be a FM. 2023 - I turn 60, will have a decent shot at another 100K!

Life is good.

Well done and thanks for the report, its really helpful for me to read about others experiences whilst im preparing for mine events.

[GlennUk]

1. A lot of you (I read this whole thread) are using the Eddie Fletcher training guide for these ultra long pieces. Did any of you do any weight lifting concurrent with the rowing training? Why or why not? If you did, where did you work it in in relation to the rest days of the rowing plan?

I havent been doing any weight training, although have just ordered barbelll/dumbell set and intend to using them for general conditioning/strength

2. Do you feel the Fletcher ultra distance plan was worth the cost? As I said, I have an early version of the marathon guide which has definitely been insightful and I recognize that there is a world of difference between a marathon and a 100k. But this is an expensive investment for me right now and I guess I'd like some personal testimonials from people who used it before I commit to it.

Ive been following the EF training plan for the 100K (used it in prep for my 60k row in May 21 having only got back into erging in May the year before. I find it really helpful and far better than the marathon plan that i was following with the RowPro software. I also get coaching form Eddie to discuss my progress/targets and i find that useful too.

3. Because I row with a single leg, all general pace information is mostly useless. So the heart rate approach of the EF plan seems like it is probably going to provide the best guidance for me outside of a lot of very detailed personal training which I cannot afford and likely would struggle to find in any case even if I could. Since I've never worked with a heart rate monitor, is there anything in particular to watch for when shopping for one and/or does anyone have any recommendations?

RE HRM we had a Suunto for many years, got it with my erg c.2009. When it gave up the ghost, moved to polar, find it works well, from discussions on here seems about as reliable as we need. I also find using it for the EF plans its quite surprising how the HR values equate to the various elements.

One thing i would say is when determining your HR Max, it would be wise imho to have more than one go at measuring it. I trained with a HR value which was too low when didn't the marathon plan and found after id done the 60k that my HRmax was about 5-6bpm higher than i had originally thought. made a difference when i started on the 100k plan with higher paces achieved consistently so far.

[GlennUk]

Hi David, forgot to say, well done on posting your marathon time, its always a significant feat when achieving such a goal, most rowers will never post a marathon from what i can make out, of those that do, many will only do it once.

Good luck with your training, and welcome to this thread.

[GlennUk]

A short update form me.

Towards the end of August i started to experience periods of breathlessness and a few other symptoms which i didn't initially relate to what turned out to be a B12 deficiency.

I had also noticed it was harder to concentrate at work too.

When i noticed the breathlessness, i saw my GP who ordered several tests after a physical exam. During the exam he couldn't find anything immediately wrong, he noted excellent BP and HR amongst other things which was good.

Chest Xray, ECG and blood tests followed. all fine except the blood tests showed up a B12 deficiency. After some research it appears that older endurance athletes often have B12 deficiency which is derived form meant and dairy products in a normal diet. I knew i was protein deficient in my diet and had been taking protein shakes to supplement my diet, however i had not considered anything else.

other symptoms include lack of concentration and numbness or pins and needless, both of which i was suffering form but had not connected them to B12.

Anyway, Friday last week it was confirmed that the deficiency is diet related and not pernicious anemia (an inability to process protein to obtain B12) and therefore supplements for B12 is the order of the day.

the impact of this is that i have been 'treading water' so to speak since the original issues appeared, paddling for between 30-60 mins every other day. I need to pick up my training now to move forwards towards my long term goal of rowing 115,972m in a single sitting.

Wil be giving Eddie Fletcher a call to derive a plan to move forwards over the next few days.

Keep well all and ill chart my progress in the usual way.