Rowing To Enhance Running

[[old] runr/rowr]

<br /> Having read this forum off and on for about a year, but have never posted. I now have a small dilemma of my own, And in need of some expert advice. My first love has always been long distance running. I started rowing about a year ago because i had developed a back injury from running, which believe it or not rowing seemed to help. my question is to all the rowers who also have experience in long distance running. I have a running marathon coming up in the first week of december. And in the middle of my training have developed another injury to my hamstring. What i would like to know is, if i cant run another step before this marathon. What type of workouts on the rower can i do to get me to the start line of this marathon. The reason i still would like to do this race is the cost factor, I have a fairly large amount invested. with the flights and hotel rooms. <br /> I feel that i should give you a little background, which may or may not help in your advice. I am a 49 year old male, weight...135, height...5.7 been running marathons since 1990, normally run 3 0r 4 a year. I have been able to keep the last marathons around 3 hours and 10 min. Total marathons to date 31. Keep in mind all i want to do is complete this marathon, not set a personal record.<br /> As far as rowing goes, it doesnt hurt my hamstring, so i can still row just not run at the moment. In the past few months i have only used the rower on my off days from running as a recovery. Iam not fast on the rower, 5000m..20:34<br /> 10000m..41:20 21097m...1 hr 30 I also dont have trouble with the mental aspect of time involved. so if you suggest distance i will be fine with that. And one last piece of background, this marathon i am attempting is one i have done before, It starts at 4600 ft altitude,and drops about 2500 ft in 26 miles, so you can say it is a gradual down hill ,no up hills. but it still beats up your quads. temprature at the start 35 to 40 degrees. Thank you for time. any help will be greatly appreciated. runr/rowr

[[old] bmoore]

(Disclaimer: I'm not a runner. I only ran in the Army and the longest runs I ever did were 10 miles at a bit less than 8 minute miles).<br /><br />I'd just switch your running training plan over to a rowing training plan and use the same distances or times that you had planned out. You'd have to figure out the right intensity, but once you had that feel, you should be able to convert, as an example only, a 30 mile running week into a 48k rowing week. Keep your long run buildup days the same distance (or a bit longer if you're faster on the rower).<br /><br />That's my theory. Let me know if you follow something like this. I'll be sharing it with my wife who wants to qualify for Boston when she stops getting pregnant.

[[old] andyArvid]

You should give more information. What pace do you normally row at? What spm? How long is a normal training run? At what pace?<br /><br />My advice to you is to stick to longer pieces at a comfortable pace with a higher than normal spm. For example one hour at 2:10-2:12 at 26-27 spm (UT2). Lower spm will improve your rowing but probably not help your running.<br /><br />Once a week, <br /> do a long piece 15k+ at UT1 (2:06-2:08?)<br /> do a longer piece at ut2 (20k+)<br /> do a workout (AT) 4x1k under 2:00<br />Do not do these on sucessive days.<br /><br />Finally, make sure you warm up and cool down properly<br /><br />Rowing to help running versus has been a recurring theme. You might want to do a search.<br /><br />andy

[[old] Bayko]

I don't think that you could substitute all erging for running between now and then and still run a decent marathon. It should be a good way to maintain cardio fitness while you deal with the hamstring, enabling you to stave off the urge to press the running before the hamstring is healed, but specificity of movement is too important to expect good results without more running training before the race.<br /><br />Last summer I hurt my left hamstring while running and like you found that I could still erg without pain. Then after erging pain-free for a full week I tried to run again and pulled the hamstring again within 10 minutes of very light jogging. I'm not even sure if somehow erging might change the strength balances between the different leg muscles to make the hamstrings susceptible to injury for us...er..."experienced" athletes.<br /><br />If you've already got a lot invested in the marathon, invest a bit more with some professional treatment for the hamstring.<br /><br />Rick (25 marathons between 1966 and 1987)

[[old] ancho]

I am currently preparing my first marathon, which I will run on november 27th.<br />My challenge is to finish the marathon rowing as much as possible and running only as much as necessary, in order not to interfere with my rowing training/competition program.<br />Actually I am following a somewhat customized version of the Wolverine Plan (you'll find lots of infos about it in this forum), which gives you a very good cardiovascular basis, and making two runs a week (one 14 km, and one increasing from 14 km, last week it was 25 km. From now on I'll stick to about 20 km for the second run). For the rest, I am following the club's "normal" competition plan, and 3 weeks before the marathon I'll do a half marathon test. Abot 3 weeks ago I did a 10 km test and finished with 43:46.<br />Beginning of this year I also have had hamstring problems, and they went away after about 5 weeks "rest" (only rowing). I've had no furtehr problems, and feel I'm doing fairly good progress.<br />I'll post my results if they are worth it.<br />Don't know if this is exactly what you were looking after, but hope it helps.<br /><br />Good luck and have fun!

[[old] akit110]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Oct 12 2005, 03:15 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Oct 12 2005, 03:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think that you could substitute all erging for running between now and then and still run a decent marathon.  It should be a good way to maintain cardio fitness while you deal with the hamstring, enabling you to stave off the urge to press the running before the hamstring is healed, but specificity of movement is too important to expect good results without more running training before the race.<br /><br />Last summer I hurt my left hamstring while running and like you found that I could still erg without pain.  Then after erging pain-free for a full week I tried to run again and pulled the hamstring again within 10 minutes of very light jogging.  I'm not even sure if somehow erging might change the strength balances between the different leg muscles to make the hamstrings susceptible to injury for us...er..."experienced" athletes.<br /><br />If you've already got a lot invested in the marathon, invest a bit more with some professional treatment for the hamstring.<br /><br />Rick (25 marathons between 1966 and 1987) <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I think you might be on to something there, Rick. Sprinters are very susceptible to pulling their hamstrings, if I am not mistaken, because their sport overdevelops their quads. And their sport is very explosive which greatly increases the risk of muscle pulls.<br /><br />Rowing is similarly 'quad intensive' (like cycling and skating) though obviously not explosive. This is not a major problem until you move to a sport which requires strong hamstrings like long distance running. I remember hearing that your hamstrings should be about 2/3rds as strong as your quads to avoid muscle imbalances.

[[old] truman1987]

My guide to running aches and pains is www.coolrunning.com. Click on the Resources tab. According to their site you can be running through a hamstring pull. Follow their directions on stretches, exercises, and treatment.<br /><br />I think rowing is the perfect cross training for running. Rowing definitely helps prevent runners knee by keeping the lower quads strong. My only problem with rowing is if I row a day or two before a running race, it really hurts my performance.<br /><br />Make sure it isn't Sciatica, coolrunning has a simple test. You can't run through Sciatica.<br /><br />Good luck.

[[old] gibbo1969]

for what its worth.rowing does create an inbalance between quads and hammies which could well lead to strains and pulls as I discovered myself. although rowing would maintain your endurance ,biomechanically it is a worlds apart and i reckon I am a worse runner since doing a lot of rowing.

[[old] runr/rowr]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Oct 12 2005, 03:15 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Oct 12 2005, 03:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think that you could substitute all erging for running between now and then and still run a decent marathon.  It should be a good way to maintain cardio fitness while you deal with the hamstring, enabling you to stave off the urge to press the running before the hamstring is healed, but specificity of movement is too important to expect good results without more running training before the race.<br /><br />Last summer I hurt my left hamstring while running and like you found that I could still erg without pain.  Then after erging pain-free for a full week I tried to run again and pulled the hamstring again within 10 minutes of very light jogging.  I'm not even sure if somehow erging might change the strength balances between the different leg muscles to make the hamstrings susceptible to injury for us...er..."experienced" athletes.<br /><br />If you've already got a lot invested in the marathon, invest a bit more with some professional treatment for the hamstring.<br /><br />Rick (25 marathons between 1966 and 1987) <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

[[old] runr/rowr]

<br /> well i guess you can tell im not to good at this forum thing, many thanks to all who have gave advice, i especially like ricks reply very well to the point and the quote from emil zatopek, i have followed his type of training, very intense i might add. which is probably why i am in the shape im in. even though im injured i still have my humor. ok i might be making this a bit more complicated, my next concern is my heart rate. in all of my past training for marathons ive trained with a heart monitor, and i know with experience that at a certain pace where my heart rate should be. example...... 7 minute mile in the marathon my heart rate is around 168 to 172 depending on heat,and hydration. and i can run that pace for about 15 to 20 miles. now the question. when im on the rower i cant get my heart rate near that. unless i go all out, which i cant go for 2000m much less a marathon. if i cant get my heart rate up on the rower to anything near what i will get it up to in running the marathon, even at a easy pace. what will happen in the race? i guess what im asking is what kinda of workout should i do on the rower to be equivalent to the same intensity. i know the heart rate will differ because im seated and also the weather will have an impact. i told you this could get complicated. thank god this race is only 7 weeks away. thanks so much for your reply. Bill Marshall runr/rowr

[[old] ljwagner]

Hamstrings in running bring the foot up toward the hip. Rowing you use the other end of the hams to pull toward the foot boards. <br /><br />You could strain it running:<br /><br /> - throwing the foot out to fast<br /> - kicking up higher than usual<br /> - stretching to a longer stride length.<br /> - pushing a longer stride, and NOT lifting the foot. But that would get your hip flexors, too, where I have a decades old problem.<br /><br />Have someone watch you running, slow at first. Figure out what makes it hurt. Then you'll have a clue how to fix it.<br /><br />You may have had your hamstrings tighten up on you. It may be you need some gym work to find what your hamstring strength level is. Best ? Go see a doctor and or physical therapist, sports medicine specialist if possible.<br /><br />Doing squats may help, since both sides of the thigh get some work carrying the weight. Start with no weight and see what it feels like doing 2-3 SLOWLY.<br /><br />When you injure it, cool down with ice 20 minutes on, 20 off. 3 days, if it really hurts. If you use heat, GENTLE heat. Again, 20 on, 20 off, and ONLY after that 3 day wait. You want it to get better, not serve it at a barbecue.