Cyclist / Cross-training

[[old] AtlCyclist]

Greetings,<br /><br />I'm a master's age competitive cyclist and I'm looking for training advice from other cyclists. I've got an old but serviceable Model B in my garage and recent time constraints mean I'll need to do more rowing than riding. Any insights into appropriate cross training for a cyclist?<br /><br />Thanks in advance.<br /><br />MT

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-AtlCyclist+Sep 2 2005, 06:35 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(AtlCyclist @ Sep 2 2005, 06:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Greetings,<br /><br />I'm a master's age competitive cyclist and I'm looking for training advice from other cyclists.  I've got an old but serviceable Model B in my garage and recent time constraints mean I'll need to do more rowing than riding.  Any insights into appropriate cross training for a cyclist?<br /><br />Thanks in advance.<br /><br />MT <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I've always compared a 6K row to a 10mile time trial and a 15K (or 60') row to a 25 mile time trial. Erging (on top of some long winter Sunday rides) has done wonders for my cycling endurance. Unfortunately, this year the British weather has been awfully windy so I've not had a chance to improve my cycling PBs.<br />

[[old] ebolton]

I rowed last winter into the spring much more than in the past, and it paid off tremendously this summer on the bike. I've been riding guys off my wheel this year who could drop me at will previously, and I'm 47.<br /><br />I found it doesn't seem to work in reverse. As I started riding more in the summer, rowing performance went into the hopper.<br /><br />I'm not yet convinced you have to follow any particular progam on the rower to improve performance on the bike. Just going 1/2 hr minimum, or better 10-15K each day on the rower seems to do it. Basically, "junk meters" to somebody training to actually row.<br /><br />My last objective on the bike is September 10, and unless I need to ride to work because I can't afford gas I'm pretty much figuring on hanging up the bike after that. I'll probably then adopt a more structured erg program for fall and winter.<br /><br />Ed

[[old] Bayko]

<!--QuoteBegin-ebolton+Sep 2 2005, 11:48 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ebolton @ Sep 2 2005, 11:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />My last objective on the bike is September 10, and unless I need to ride to work because I can't afford gas I'm pretty much figuring on hanging up the bike after that.  I'll probably then adopt a more structured erg program for fall and winter.<br /><br />Ed <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />And with any luck there will be an erg race for you to row in Newburyport in January. Be there or be square.<br /><br />Rick

[[old] ebolton]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And with any luck there will be an erg race for you to row in Newburyport in January. Be there or be square.<br /><br />Rick </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Yeah, with any kind of luck. A little less snow on the day would do nicely. Hope your summer has gone well!<br /><br />Ed

[[old] dennish]

ED, I concur. I have erged for a decade and this last spring and summer I also began to ride competitively. I find that they are very complimentary. I haven't seen any correlation between erg races/distances and time trials. I am always tremendously more spent after an erg piece that I do for time or distance than I am after any time trial I have done from 10 to 20 mile distances. But conversely I recover much more rapidly from the erg pieces than bike races. I am going to continue to train on both right through the winter, well at least till after Crash-b, or at least thats the plan currently. Lots depends on how things go with the BIRC, C2's European team and time on the bike. I live in the mountains west of Denver but contrary to popular belief we over 300 days of sunshine a year so training on the bike during the winter is quite doable, have to dress for temps in the 40's but doable. Time trials here start the second week in April, and it can be grusome some evenings but erging and riding work well together. Age 55 and came second in the Cherry Creek time trial series and 5th at State Time Trials and 3rd at Crash-B and 4th in a E8 at World masters games. Yeah, I'd say they work well together. Send your email if you want to discuss this further, I'd be interested in some of your thinking and experiences along these lines. dennis

[[old] RowedandRode]

Atlcyclist:<br />Although I'm not a competitive or club cyclist, I am certainly enthusiastic about cycling. I just started doing serious mileage on my bikes this past summer. I have two: one is my dear old unglamourous Norco MTB that I use for "gadabout", casual rides, and handling rougher surfaces (such as the old unpaved railway trail near our house). The other bike is a sweetheart - a 2005 Devinci Podium road bike; Al frame with carbon forks & post. <br /><br />Since I started doing longer bike rides & practising with my road bike, I've noticed greater strength & definition in my legs (the 400-m track intervals I've been running also help). <br /><br />This morning when I got on the ergometer for the first time in about a month (we've had the basement torn up for reno, so I've been concentrating on biking & running instead of rowing).....I was SMOKIN'!!! I felt just great. My cardio capacity has improved (I find I can go longer with a higher heart rate) and my legs feel more powerful. The break has also made rowing feel "fresh" again.<br /><br />As the summer wanes into autumn, I'll be gradually replacing the cycling with rowing and weight training. I don't feel terribly comfortable cycling alone in the dark, especially as it's getting colder in the mornings. So it's time to shift into winter mode.<br /><br />What I'd really like is a stationary bike trainer mount with a computer, so that I can rig up the road bike in the basement for use all winter....a good thing for the Xmas list.....!! <br /><br />The great thing about rowing (as it relates to cycling) is the hard drive down with the legs as you complete a stroke. It's quite a bit like the feeling of pushing the pedals when attacking a hill. I figure that if I do 10 sets of 300-m intervals (building up to 900-m intervals) on the rower with maximum drive at each stroke, followed by half an hour or dumbell squats and lunges until I can't walk up the stairs...that's got to increase the fast-twitch in my legs for sprint and climb capacity on my bike.<br /><br />I'll be interested to see if a whole winter of hard work on the C2-D combined with weights and hill running will make me a better cyclist come springtime!!<br /><br />Atlcyclist, please post again to let me know how you're doing in making the rowing work with your riding.<br /><br />

[[old] Carl Henrik]

I'm concuring as well, biking and rowing has gone well together for me. Although I don't train for biking I do use it for transport about 100k per week. For me biking saves a lot of time in comparison to other means of transportation. As a bonus, If I don't have time to row, I have learnt there is no need to worry about fitness degenerating with these habits. <br /><br />Also, my rowing, where I do the intensive training, has made me as fast or faster than any other cyclists I meet on the streets (usually). I have rebuilt my bike (old racer type) so it looks a bit strange (but is very comfortable and secure) and I've heard "compliments" that the bike is fast...It really isn't, I just make it look so, thanks to rowing.

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Add me to the list of those who agree that rowing helps you be a better cyclist, especially when you need that strength for going fast uphill. Cycling is a little like cross country skiing where everybody is fast on the downhills, and lots of people can go fast on the level, but the hills is where the stronger cyclists shine. I noticed a long time ago that when we would get a speed skater, rower, or fencer we automatically had a strong cyclist. <br /><br />By the way, you don't necessarily have to give up cycling in the winter:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/cycle ... pogies.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/cycle ... jpg</a><br /><br />Do a google search on winter+cycling to read about winter cycling if you are interested.<br /><br />Byron

[[old] ebolton]

<!--QuoteBegin-Byron Drachman+Sep 6 2005, 01:34 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Byron Drachman @ Sep 6 2005, 01:34 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cycling is a little like cross country skiing where everybody is fast on the downhills, and lots of people can go fast on the level, but the hills is where the stronger cyclists shine. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />True. Also, riding smoothly and safely in groups, riding smart on the public roads with automotive traffic, and effective cornering. We've seen in our club many people starting to ride quite fast because they are very fit, but it is fitness gained in the gym and they have not mastered these very important skills<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->By the way, you don't necessarily have to give up cycling in the winter:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/cycle ... pogies.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/cycle ... ies.jpg</a> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That doesn't look so pleasant to me! One of the biggest advantages of an upright bike is your face is higher than dog level, and sometimes higher than the snowbanks!<br /><br /><br />Ed

[[old] ajspook]

I agree with everyone. I race bikes, and I have taken this winter off racing and started doing ergs. First time back on the bike in 3 months I was stacks better than before. Mind you I did lost 8kg as well..

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That doesn't look so pleasant to me! One of the biggest advantages of an upright bike is your face is higher than dog level, and sometimes higher than the snowbanks! </td></tr></table> <br /><br />Hi Ed,<br /><br />This is a bit off topic, but not completely since cycling and rowing are related. The people around here who ride both trikes and uprights feel safer around dogs on their trikes. A dog would have to get around the front wheels. A dog bite is always a possibility, but most serious injuries I know about came from the cyclist being knocked off the bike after colliding with a dog. If you're on a recumbent you don't fall as far. Also, you're not leading with your head when you're on a recumbent. <br /><br />When there is just a little snow or a few icy patches but the roads are mostly clear riding a trike is a lot of fun, but riding an upright is problematic. If there is a lot of snow, including snowbanks, on the road, I don't ride. Isn't it nice we have all these options, including the C2?<br /><br />Byron

[[old] jbell]

So, it sounds like erging is good for biking, but what about vice-versa? When the winter comes, can I interchange them as part of my workout?

[[old] Calgary Rob]

I do a combination of running/cycling/erging - at least a 40 min session of one of the former activites for 6 days a week and then a longer session (which activity depends very much on the weather).<br /><br />As I mix the activities up, I will never get really good at any. However, I have found that I have a higher level of general fitness and strength across all the activities.<br /><br />When running I feel stronger and get less injuries, when cycling I really feel the benefits in mountain biking where there is generally more climbing and running with the bike. On my road bike I notice the increased fitness when hill climbing, but I can still spin along on the flat.<br /><br />With the days getting shorter my work day activities will be erging and stationary cycling in my basement, with an outdoor run or bike at weekends.<br /><br />This winter I'll be training for a "24 hours of adrenalin" event and trying XC skking. I expect the erg to provide the base strength and endurance. And given the choice of erg or stationary bike I'd choose the erg any day.<br /><br />So, IMHO erging and cycling are very compatible. <br /><br />

[[old] ebolton]

<!--QuoteBegin-Byron Drachman+Sep 7 2005, 12:59 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Byron Drachman @ Sep 7 2005, 12:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />Hi Ed,<br /><br />This is a bit off topic, but not completely since cycling and rowing are related. The people around here who ride both trikes and uprights feel safer around dogs on their trikes. A dog would have to get around the front wheels. A dog bite is always a possibility, but most serious injuries I know about came from the cyclist being knocked off the bike after colliding with a dog. If you're on a recumbent you don't fall as far. Also, you're not leading with your head when you're on a recumbent. <br /><br />When there is just a little snow or a few icy patches but the roads are mostly clear riding a trike is a lot of fun, but riding an upright is problematic. If there is a lot of snow, including snowbanks, on the road, I don't ride. Isn't it nice we have all these options, including the C2?<br /><br />Byron <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry, didn't really mean to disparage trikes or recumbents in general. I have very little experience with them.<br /><br />I was talking to another rider around here a few days ago about dogs. Around here, they are much less of a problem than they were 10 years ago. I think there are fewer of them, and the owners seem to be generally more responsible now. I've not had a dog come into the street for me all year. All my dog stories are getting old!<br /><br />Ed