Barefoot/Sockless and Strapless- How to best acclimate/train

[hjs]

hjs, so you mean strapless looks more 'forced' and less productive? I'm very much getting used to the bracing better.

I used to pull more direct to sternum but saw some videos encouraging shorter rowers to go higher and I'm only 5'10" (153cm) I'm more than happy to pull back where I initially learned it does feel a touch forced and changes the line going back in. I also drop the handle lower on the return during long (5k) rows and try to keep lats tight right before initiating the drive.

Great tips! The "hands away" quickly i thought was the goal to begin to get your body rocking forward and then rolling (not pulling with toes) back to the catch. So I can smooth that out a lot as well.

1100-1300, again I feel there is some hip swing I'm not maximizing inside there but if I can keep working through these key points i can automate them and focus on those details down the road I hope.

Comfort update, I did 30K (*3-4hrs including drills) Fri-Sunday and most barefoot with a little blistering but SR 24 felt maintainable at 1:52 pace during my working 5m intervals. Did a few speed tests up to SR 28 to hold 1:42 split for 30 seconds before I felt like i was losing flat low back posture. both strapless and strapped and in socks.

During the strapless your stroke is to short, you miss getting vertical shins. Strapless is mostly a tool for people who can’t rate low and or are having a weak stroke. It also prevents leaning back to much.

Your rocking over is fine, but that forced handmovement is not needed. In your case your rocking over is maybe a bit to much and makes your bend your legs not enough.

The pulling vertical, go back there, if you want a longer stroke, you should extend your back more, that way you can pull up higher, but only at the last part of your stroke. Strapless this is not possible, you simple fall off. Thats maybe why you pull so odd. Pull horizontal, if you want to pull longer, strap in and lean more.

Re 5.10 thats for a rower not tall, but still ok enough. Instead of pulling longer shorter rowers can also up the spm. In general use a stroke that feels natural. Just thinking you need to make your stroke longer because your are short is no good.
Your stroke could be longer on both side, first (and most important) get up on the slide more to vertical shins, you will right away get a stronger stroke. And second, strapped in, lean back a bit more, if that feels natural. But keep pulling horizontal.

[mict450]

Andrew, thank you for posting your video. Overall, your technique is very good for a newbie. What drag factor are you using?

Good points: You are thin & obviously in terrific shape! Lots of good toys in your workout area. Garage? Good sequencing. Sitting on sitz bones, not slouching & keeping neutral lumbar spine. Good ROM in body swing. Keeping hands high at catch to facilitate lat engagement. You keep good connection to the foot stretchers thru out your stroke. Cute daughter, pleasant distraction.

Areas to work on: Zeitgeist-wise, you need to blend your transitions a little more smoothly. Appears robotic & forced at this stage. You're short on the catch end. It's alright to lift your heels to get your shins plumb to the floor. You have that praying mantis pose at the finish. Your hands & forearms should be in alignment, straight. On second vid, you're diving into the catch on some strokes. On recovery, once you're hands away & body over, maintain that body angle.

All in all, very good. In every session, I'd recommend spending several minutes on the pick drill & reverse pick drill. Also, hands away/body over pause drill, going into catch position pause to correct diving into catch.

[Andrewjfast]

I got so pumped at the advice and suggested tweaks-- over my lunch break I stretched some more, did 10m of specific drills to try address your feedback, and then 30m of a Dark Horse Intervals video focused on 18, 20, 22, 24SR with drag of 180 and some other DF variables to experiment and get into a groove. Doing 6K of intervals felt good in socks so I just kept going...which turned into my first 10K... in 42:10 .

my current go to DF is 123 (Damper #5) # 4 felt too easy at 111 and # 6 was like 140 and consensus seems the sweet spot was 115-25 for males in my 'shape'.

Thanks for calling me thin, haven't heard that in a while. 152cm and 82kg (5'10, 182lbs), I am trying to lean out from being 185-87 and lifting wayyyyy tooo often and much. this is going to be a good lifestyle move. Yes I'm very lucky to have scavenged my gym stuff over the years, the rower actaully DOUBLED my last 10yrs of expenses (floor, rack, DBs, plates, bands... everything else was used and hard fought with buying/selling on Craigslist/FB).
Garage one day, and OUTSIDE one sunny day in the future! for now I'm in my basement 18deg (C). Garage is sub 0 right now, ice storm in KY, USA.

I'm definitely a newby, but in <1 month I've spent >13hrs (not including 90+minutes just sitting tight in the 'catch position') and 118K on the machine. I can hold ~2:02 splits for 20-30 minutes and drop to 1:52 for ~1 minute at a time until I feel out of sync somewhere @ SR26. Really can't wait to hold 1:45 for a 2K, trying not to get frustrated that it feels SOOO much harder to get out of that 2:02 speed and into the 1:50's... If i can get my shins more vertical that will definitely help, and keep focus on the other areas mentioned. I really thought i needed more hip swing or my fwd/back angles weren't hitting the marks. so THANK YOU sooo much everyone!
Fast

[jamesg]

Careful with your wrists, they won't stand up to much of that. Keep them flat, no bending.

Boots, shoes, socks have little or no influence; boats have shoes for safety, less likely to end up swimming. But not only, they also define the height of the feet, with the straps over the toes so that we can get our weight forward on the feet; and consequently shove hard and soon.

Relax too, there's no point in keeping your arms high in the air, it doesn't spin the flywheel.

[Andrewjfast]

Grazie James! I'll take down the videos, the "row longer and high hands, super fast hand release at the finish" were bad cues and not representative of how I rowed before and definitely the last 2hrs of rowing. In ~1wk I'll put out a new video once my back recovers from some heavy ice work this weekend that did impact my technique. Also hopefully my mobility and shin angle can improve to give a better baseline and ensure I'm ready to inc. mileage safely as I dive all-in to this fantastic sport/tool for fitness!

PS- reading the Boys in the boat the last week... only 30% done but HIGHLY RECOMMEND if you like: Olympics, Rowing, early 1900s historical non-fiction, inspiration, WWI/II... reminds me of UNBROKEN (also fantastic read on those topics + running).
PPS- ENDURE, by Alex Hutchinson is fantastic on human physical limits and genetics, multi-species and multi-sport testing, and soo much more!
Cuidate
Andrew

[Soulsurfer]

Tried it, hated it. Too much chafing on my heels. Reminds me of the time I needed to be in kilt for a Robbie Burns evening - commando no less! "Nothing ruins a weekend like a chafing in the lowlands!", if you know what I mean (gents).

[mict450]

Tried it, hated it. Too much chafing on my heels. Reminds me of the time I needed to be in kilt for a Robbie Burns evening - commando no less! "Nothing ruins a weekend like a chafing in the lowlands!", if you know what I mean (gents).

There is benefit for erging strapless. None for doing it barefoot!! If it's not comfortable, don't do it! Erging is tough enough already without adding more torture to the process.

[Andrewjfast]

Update-
THANKS SOO MUCH FOR ALL THE TIPS and flow and support.
The heel callous building is going well, I do my warmup strapless and barefoot and then have been doing intervals 3-4m on and 1m off to check in with the blister status and go strapped or add socks, and just reset my brain to stay focused on form.

Had good 10K (1K intervals some with and without straps; SR 22-25) last Saturday barefoot for the first 4 rounds then with socks as a preventative afterward. So after my usual 4 minute cool down I strapped in for a 500m barefoot test! Hyper focused on form and bracing it was sooo exciting!! 1:35.1 talk about an adrenaline RUSH, and every stroke felt good/safe, SR 36 I think... but form stayed good and no aches the next day... whew.

Sunday I did an actual 10K non-stop focusing on my splits each 1000m and then pushing the last 1000 to 1:50 pace or better and that was SUPER fun. Socks and strapped the whole way, no blisters, but some sliding felt when I wasn't locked in mentally which could be counter-productive.
40:31!! So the training is working for sure!! I'll update a new form check soon, I need to get better leg drive in the beginning of the stroke, I do accelerate THRU the stroke better now but still think the beginning 40% of my drive isn't as strong as it could be.

wanted to give people more ideas/anecdotal experience on acclimating to strapless/socked/barefoot rowing. I was tender a few days in the last 2 weeks but wearing socks and <20m workouts those days felt good. I'm rowing 5/7days a week the past 3 weeks and LOVE IT. still running and lifting too but that definitely sapped some endurance from my TTs this weekend. Will test in 4 weeks and go as fresh as possible (and rested), try to break 1:30 and 39:30 or whatever happens.

cheers all
Fast
PS Just realized my Thread title "Sockless" was supposed to be "Shoeless" or "in socks".... hah what a nervous noob (he says confidently with <10posts to his name)

[Bill]

Hello,

I use strapless most of the time. When I first bumped into the idea approx 15 years ago it was seen to be a way of highlighting a deficiency in your stroke i.e. if your feet came off the plates when strapless it meant something was wrong with your stroke and energy was being wasted. Instead of going into the flywheel that energy would be going into the straps holding your feet down.

There was a Coach called Paul Smith who posted a lot on the forums when I was last active, he recommended training using what he called S10PS = Strapless 10m per stroke

Am only very recently back on the rowing and the forum from a huge long break so don't know if Paul is still around or if people still use this idea.

I found it very interesting and useful when I tried it.

[mict450]

There was a Coach called Paul Smith who posted a lot on the forums when I was last active, he recommended training using what he called S10PS = Strapless 10m per stroke

Am only very recently back on the rowing and the forum from a huge long break so don't know if Paul is still around or if people still use this idea.

Unfortunately, Paul has not been active for a very, very long time. I, for one, miss his contributions. I think he got tired of all the crap slinging irrationality that originated from a few members who shall remain nameless.

[Andrewjfast]

New Form Check Video.
My forearms still seem to pull at an angle that makes my wrists bend and I'm working on that. No discomfort and I'm pulling to my sternum which feels natural, I'm sure that is 90% of my strokes for a 10K @2:02-07 pace and again it all feels fine during, after and the next day. Until i see the video and realize it's still happening most strokes unless I consciously lower the arms and pull angle. thanks everyone!

Concerns? Any tips?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzKqs99 ... AndrewFast

PS I did a barefoot 5k last night 3k of which strapless which felt great @2:12 SR 19, then strapped the last 2K @ 2:05. Then decided to do a rank-able 500m sprint since you can't just use an interval for that and verify it. 1:31.2 !!! I died out hard at 40seconds @SR 35+/-, apparently i wasn't as fresh post lifting and rowing as I felt when testing some pulls at 1:21/500 splits which seems to be the hardest I can pull.

[hjs]

Really fine, it just needs to be to get ingrained. The only thing I do see, but it only minor, you start the stroke with a short pull from the shoulders. Look at it yourself, at the catch instead of starting to push the legs, its the shoulders first.
But for the rest, nice rocking over, nice long arms, you also have relative long legs and shorter torso, which is good.

Re 500m and dying, if you don’t die, you are not really trying, it may easy, but you can completely kill yourself over 500m. If you look up guys on youtube you will find most very much slowing down in the last 50 meters.

All in all, fine stroke to work with, no major changes needed.

[Andrewjfast]

Wow, I need to pay attention to that, GREAT catch. The shoulders seem to want to grab that tension early in the catch since I feel that first .3m doesn't have the resistance yet to pull against. I really need to get more leg drive, so I'll do as much leg focused pick drills as needed. I have a feeling once my shin angle improves I can find tension sooner in the pull/push as well. I'm just glad the wrist bending action isn't a red flag to worry about.

excited to get down there tonight and do more work. thanks again. and yes the lights were starting to go out on that last 100m, gassed. Very different pain/pass out point to when I could run a sub 5 minute mile or all out cycling on a magneto flywheel trainer, reminded me of CF circuits but there is little/ no chances for even 1 deep breath anywhere in the 90 seconds!! A better warmup and some deep breaths leading up would help me shave 3-4 seconds off my next go in April. Need to test a true 2k to know how to program some tempo training based on an actual cardio marker of where I'm at. 2:02 @SR 24 feels like I could go for an hour. anything ~1:55 feels like up to 10 minutes of borrowed time. Below that I don't know how long I can hold on.

again really appreciate it. 353/2,000 in my age group for the sprint and injury free so far so it's time to rollover my first 200K (likely mid/late next week only 25k to go!) and push my limits.

[mict450]

Much improved, Andrew! Miss seeing your cute daughter.

Chartreuse leggings & headband. No trouble finding you in a crowd!

[Andrewjfast]

Almost posted this to the PB thread but think it drifts too much to be applicable. Posting here as relates to FORM and progression and Getting faster/Experimenation:

Thanks @dangerscouse, and I appreciate nobody poking fun at my "reply" to the OP from 2006... yesterday I was trying to do too much to be 'bothered' by key details apparently.

Everyone is different so I know it's hard to even compare personal (your own) times and perceived effort in the early 'gains' stages where I'll be at for a while (<2months still). Re: Swimming, if i could have unlearned some intuitive habits that proved less efficient coulda been quicker, sooner and saved countless hours of training in the grand scheme (or "I coulda been a contender...one of the greats..." ). Butt in seat time and callous building is great and all but ultimately I'd love to spend my 40s (rapidly approaching) testing some limits and my running fast days (especially higher level soccer and tennis) appear to be ending and my wife hasn't been a fan of the ~seven- 20+ mile cycling rides the last few years so that ship may be sailing/sinking too (danger and previous wrecks confirming aforementioned 'danger).

For rowing and especially TTs I plan to experiment more with variables and dust off my HR monitor as soon as I can siphon off enough brain power to focus on one more thing during training and not louse up the whole stroke.

Currently I'm trying to connect legs QUICKER, just like swimming, i fear my rowing is upper body dominant and the legs just do their bare minimum. I'm a size 10.5 US tennis shoe, super high arch and a bit "wider" than average for comparison. I row Barefoot 99% now but I'm torn between setting 4 or 3 on the foot stretcher. #4 is more comfortable for the stroke and seems more consistent power over time. ON #3 the strap hits the widest part of my foot perfectly, but it's hard to get shins parallel so if I'm not really focused on compressing and unless my mobility is really good that day it's a struggle to keep that same pace. For my HM i was still on #3 due to the rule "widest part of foot or else!" so I never considered going lower until a Training Tall video suggested trying new DF and Foot positions to dial in your fixed mechanics. I did 55' straight last night and pinky toes got a bit tender so perhaps #4 would be less comfy over time given where it pushes into them, but again maybe callouses will rule the day like they are with my heels. any feedback appreciated, thanks for listening. this helps me re-calibrate and try things out.

FWIW- I feel tension in that first 6" of pull but have to really tuck in and accelerate out of the catch quickly to feel like i'm applying any significant work to the erg and take my pace from 2:05 down closer to 2 or below with my SR 22. so perhaps i just need to get comfortable rating higher like 25+ and lower the split via extra strokes. thoughts? my 2K SR is 28 building to 31 for the final 500m (@1:38). Maintaining <2m splits seems to put me out of sustainable effort beyond 10 minutes but it could be mental. 2:05 -10 with a bit of consistent focus I can maintain for 1hr. 2:14 who know s before my butt shuts down or the blisters get too painful to continue...