Rowing Vs The Treadmill

[[old] brucedarby]

I am a 48 year old male trying to loose weight and get into shape. Besides working out with weights in a gym, I row in the mornings and use a treadmill at the gym in the evening. <br /><br />My question is that I am having much more difficultly rowing than I do using a treadmill. After 20 minutes on the concept 2 my back muscles fatigue to the point that I stop. With a treadmill I usually stop at 40 minutes out of boredom but could easily much longer if I wanted. The treadmill doesn’t really fatigue me at all whereas the Erg really kicks my butt. I try to keep my heart rate in the 140-145 range for weight loss purposes. <br /><br />Am I doing something wrong? My goal is to row 45 minutes in the morning and use the treadmill for 45 minutes in the evening. <br /><br />Bruce <br />

[[old] Yoda1]

Bruce,<br /><br />The most important key to fitness is recognizing when to allow the body to recover. You've said you're involved in weight training, use of the treadmill and the ERG. If you're overweight and, depending on your age, it sure sounds to me like you're asking the old bod to do more than it wants to. Why not try weight lifting twice a week and alternate the days you use the treadmill and ERG. The days that you workout with the iron, shorten the use of the treadmill or ERG. More ain't better. Good Luck <br /><br />Yoda

[[old] Porkchop]

<span style='color:green'><br />Yoda good advice gives.</span>

[[old] brucedarby]

<!--QuoteBegin-Yoda1+Jul 31 2005, 07:30 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Yoda1 @ Jul 31 2005, 07:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bruce,<br /><br />The most important key to fitness is recognizing when to allow the body to recover.  You've said you're involved in weight training, use of the treadmill and the ERG.  If you're overweight and, depending on your age, it sure sounds to me like you're asking the old bod to do more than it wants to.  Why not try weight lifting twice a week and alternate the days you use the treadmill and ERG.  The days that you workout with the iron, shorten the use of the treadmill or ERG.  More ain't better.  Good Luck  <br /><br />Yoda <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Thanks Yoda, <br /><br />Very good advice.

[[old] gibbo1969]

Have to agree with Yoda. As a PT who is prone to overtraining I have to take my own advice sometimes. Unfortunately as you get older the body will need more recovery. How anyone can do more than 10 minutes on a treadmill without falling off through boredom is beyond me!<br />Another tactic could be use one workout as a endurance workout and the other as an interval/fat burner.<br />The bottom line is keep your workouts changing. Your body will adjust to whats being asked of it very quickly (2-4 weeks) so to keep changing around your workouts for best results.<br />Just wondering if your lower back pain could be linked to your legs being fatigued by the running so you are using too much upper body in your erging.<br />Back stretching is very important before and after.

[[old] brucedarby]

<!--QuoteBegin-gibbo1969+Jul 31 2005, 07:55 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gibbo1969 @ Jul 31 2005, 07:55 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Have to agree with Yoda. As a PT who is prone to overtraining I have to take my own advice sometimes. Unfortunately as you get older the body will need more recovery. How anyone can do more than 10 minutes on a treadmill without falling off through boredom is beyond me!<br />Another tactic could be use one workout as a endurance workout and the other as an interval/fat burner.<br />The bottom line is keep your workouts changing. Your body will adjust to whats being asked of it very quickly (2-4 weeks) so to keep changing around your workouts for best results.<br />Just wondering if your lower back pain could be linked to your legs being fatigued by the running so you are using too much upper body in your erging.<br />Back stretching is very important before and after. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Yes, I absolutely use too much upper body when I row. I am sure this is what is causing my back muscle fatigue. I have probably developed a bad habbit and need to fix it. <br /><br />Bruce

[[old] Exrook]

<!--QuoteBegin-brucedarby+Jul 31 2005, 09:04 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(brucedarby @ Jul 31 2005, 09:04 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-gibbo1969+Jul 31 2005, 07:55 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gibbo1969 @ Jul 31 2005, 07:55 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Have to agree with Yoda. As a PT who is prone to overtraining I have to take my own advice sometimes. Unfortunately as you get older the body will need more recovery. How anyone can do more than 10 minutes on a treadmill without falling off through boredom is beyond me!<br />Another tactic could be use one workout as a endurance workout and the other as an interval/fat burner.<br />The bottom line is keep your workouts changing. Your body will adjust to whats being asked of it very quickly (2-4 weeks) so to keep changing around your workouts for best results.<br />Just wondering if your lower back pain could be linked to your legs being fatigued by the running so you are using too much upper body in your erging.<br />Back stretching is very important before and after. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Yes, I absolutely use too much upper body when I row. I am sure this is what is causing my back muscle fatigue. I have probably developed a bad habbit and need to fix it. <br /><br />Bruce <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />What drag factor do you use (i.e. where do you set the lever on the flywheel cage)? A high drag factor tends to require more back, while a lower drag encourages more use of the legs. Most casual users I see at gyms throw the lever all the way up to 10. Previous discussions on the forum show that many of the more experienced people on this forum tend to use something much lower than that - with 3-4 the mean that I've observed. I use 2 or 3 (corresponds to a drag factor around 115-120, depending on the machine).

[[old] neilb]

<!--QuoteBegin-brucedarby+Jul 31 2005, 05:57 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(brucedarby @ Jul 31 2005, 05:57 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />My question is that I am having much more difficultly rowing than I do using a treadmill.  The treadmill doesn’t really fatigue me at all whereas the Erg really kicks my butt.  <br />Bruce <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Bruce,<br /><br />As people have said it is poor technique not fitness that is the failing. If I think back to when I used a treadmill it was quite easy to get the running technique wrong and suffer lower back/hamstring tiredness/fatigue fairly easily.<br /><br />Same with the erg except it is even less forgiving.<br /><br />Sort the technique out and think about more quality and less quantity. The erg is tough partly because you need to constantly set the pace and work to maintain the workout as well as do it whereas on the treadmill the machine does the pacing and all you need to do is to move your feet

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Hi Bruce,<br />A large mirror next to you might help you watch your back and see if you are holding your back as straight as you can. You might get less back pain if you "sit tall" and keep the back well supported while erging.<br />Byron

[[old] brucedarby]

<!--QuoteBegin-Exrook+Aug 1 2005, 10:43 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Exrook @ Aug 1 2005, 10:43 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-brucedarby+Jul 31 2005, 09:04 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(brucedarby @ Jul 31 2005, 09:04 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-gibbo1969+Jul 31 2005, 07:55 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gibbo1969 @ Jul 31 2005, 07:55 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Have to agree with Yoda. As a PT who is prone to overtraining I have to take my own advice sometimes. Unfortunately as you get older the body will need more recovery. How anyone can do more than 10 minutes on a treadmill without falling off through boredom is beyond me!<br />Another tactic could be use one workout as a endurance workout and the other as an interval/fat burner.<br />The bottom line is keep your workouts changing. Your body will adjust to whats being asked of it very quickly (2-4 weeks) so to keep changing around your workouts for best results.<br />Just wondering if your lower back pain could be linked to your legs being fatigued by the running so you are using too much upper body in your erging.<br />Back stretching is very important before and after. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Yes, I absolutely use too much upper body when I row. I am sure this is what is causing my back muscle fatigue. I have probably developed a bad habbit and need to fix it. <br /><br />Bruce <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />What drag factor do you use (i.e. where do you set the lever on the flywheel cage)? A high drag factor tends to require more back, while a lower drag encourages more use of the legs. Most casual users I see at gyms throw the lever all the way up to 10. Previous discussions on the forum show that many of the more experienced people on this forum tend to use something much lower than that - with 3-4 the mean that I've observed. I use 2 or 3 (corresponds to a drag factor around 115-120, depending on the machine). <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I have probaby had the drag too high, I have kept it at 6. I believe. <br /><br />Thanks for the recommendation. <br /><br />Bruce <br /><br />

[[old] brucedarby]

<!--QuoteBegin-neilb+Aug 1 2005, 11:56 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(neilb @ Aug 1 2005, 11:56 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-brucedarby+Jul 31 2005, 05:57 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(brucedarby @ Jul 31 2005, 05:57 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />My question is that I am having much more difficultly rowing than I do using a treadmill.   The treadmill doesn’t really fatigue me at all whereas the Erg really kicks my butt.  <br />Bruce <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Bruce,<br /><br />As people have said it is poor technique not fitness that is the failing. If I think back to when I used a treadmill it was quite easy to get the running technique wrong and suffer lower back/hamstring tiredness/fatigue fairly easily.<br /><br />Same with the erg except it is even less forgiving.<br /><br />Sort the technique out and think about more quality and less quantity. The erg is tough partly because you need to constantly set the pace and work to maintain the workout as well as do it whereas on the treadmill the machine does the pacing and all you need to do is to move your feet <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />After thinking about my form I made a effort today to use more legs than upper body. I rowed for 35 minutes which is the most I have done to date. I could have easily done more but I hit my goal for that workout so I stopped. I still think that my form tends to degrad as as I fatigue and that is probably what is causing the muscle soreness in my back. <br /><br />I do appreciate your advice. <br /><br />Bruce

[[old] brucedarby]

<!--QuoteBegin-Byron Drachman+Aug 1 2005, 07:40 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Byron Drachman @ Aug 1 2005, 07:40 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi Bruce,<br />A large mirror next to you might help you watch your back and see if you are holding your back as straight as you can. You might get less back pain if you "sit tall" and keep the back well supported while erging.<br />Byron <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The mirror would work well. I have also heard that I can video tape myself and send it to Concept 2 and they will critique me. I do think that it is my form that is causing my problem. <br /><br />Regards, <br /><br />Bruce