Breaking Seven Minutes

[[old] michaelb]

Are you using a percent of your maximum HR, or your heart rate reserve to calculate your bands? They seem a bit low to me, and your paces seem a bit slow, given how strong you are over those longer distances. Are you working hard at all, or is this easy? <br /><br />Since UT2 rows are by definition easy, I don't really understand fully how they help me go faster, but they do, at least in combinition with working on improved technique. Since I was recovering from an injury last year, I did almost all UT2 rows, and improved from a 2:12 pace or so over 30 minutes to at least 2:05 now at UT2 HR. Also, while there may be highly accurate ways of calculating your bands (see Xeno and his lactate testing for example), for my purposes I was much less precise, and so I found rowing at HR=147 for UT2 to be too slow and too restrictive, so I decided to just peg HR=150 as my UT2 range and target marathon HR. I can settle in at a HR under 150 for long distances so that works for me.<br /><br />In terms of working on technique, I assume you are doing these strapless? Have you had coaching or instruction? I would consider videotaping yourself and review them, and even better have some of the experts on this forum review your clip and give you feedback too. So that you would use this time to also really improve your stroke if needed.<br /><br />Since you are not recovering from an injury, and have a shorter time horizon though, I would also mix in some UT1 rows, and faster rows over 5k or more distances too though.

[[old] PeterWilkinson]

Michael,<br /><br />I am 45, (46 next week), so I have set my MHR as 175. My RHR is 55, so I have a HRR of 120. As I understand it, the formula is as follows:<br /><br />HRR * % + RHR<br /><br />So, for example: 70% = (120 * 0.7) + 55 or 84 + 55 = 139<br /><br />From this I worked out my training heart ranges as follows:<br /><br />UT2 - 55-70% = 121-139<br />UT1 - 70-80% = 139-151<br />AT - 80-85% = 151-157<br />TR - 85-90% = 157-163<br />AN - 90-100% = 163-175<br /><br />Having used a heart rate monitor for the last few months, including when I have set PB's across all distances from 500m to HM and when doing interval training, I should point out that I have never seen my pulse go above 163, and it is usually back in the 140's range within a minute of stopping rowing.<br /><br />The 10K row at 20SPM and HR <= 139 was not physically challenging at all. Indeed, I was not out of breath when I finished and my heart rate from about 10 minutes in until the end of the piece was consistently around 139. I did not row it strapless, but I could have since I usually warmdown strapless and I find it quite a comfortable way to row.<br /><br />Normally, when I row at what I consider to be a reasonable pace, pulling hard and doing negative splits, my pulse rate goes over 150 almost immediately, and then it sits between 150 & 160 regardless of the distance I am rowing. When I did my half marathon at 1:58.9 pace in June, my pulse was between 155-159 for the whole piece. At my rowing class on Saturday, I rowed 2K in 7:07 (1:46.8) and my pulse range was 155-159 except for the last 20 strokes, when it went up to 162.<br /><br />So it seems that my working heart range is 150-160 regardless of distance. If anyone can tell me what all this means, I would be grateful.

[[old] FrankJ]

Peter,<br /><br />Just been reading your description of your HR ranges and you could be describing me. I am 6' 2+" and weigh 88kg. I am 59 and from looking at your stats more slower at short distances and faster from 2K on up. My marathon is 2:47:09 so arguably I have an efficient stroke and my CV system can handle the distance.<br /><br />Other than a short warm up and cool down I do almost none of my rowing at UT2. I seldom use an HRM but I do occasionally out of curiosity. Most of the time I aim for a certain pace based on whether it is a hard or easy day but my usual base line/recovery pace is in the 1:56 - 1:58 range. I picked that pace because my marathon race pace is 1:58.8 and I want that to feel like an easy pace to me.<br /><br />Honestly if I rowed a 10K in 44:26 I think I would fall asleep. My suggestion is to use your HRM to tune your stroke. How fast can you row without exceeding HR 145? Work on that a bit and you'll be surprised how small changes in your stroke can make you a more efficient rower. I agree that you need easy workouts but I save UT2 work for times when I'm out paddling in my canoe.<br /><br />Frank<br /><br />

[[old] PeterWilkinson]

Frank,<br /><br />Nice to know I am not alone. When I read my post back, I did wonder if I was some kind of freak, whose pulse remains virtually constant regardless of distance or pace. And I did nearly fall asleep, it is the most tedious workout I have ever done, because I had to keep putting the brakes on to keep my pulse below 140. <br /><br />I have been giving this some thought since yesterday and it seems that if I follow the Concept2 definition of UT2 training bands, I can achieve the stroke rate and the heart rate, or I can achieve the stroke rate and the 500m pace, but I cannot achieve all three at the same time.<br /><br />Obviously, rowing so slowly to achieve the low heart rate was a waste of time. So I have decided that I should work to the 500m pace and stroke rates specified for whatever training band I am working in, and let my heart do what it will. At least that way, I will feel like I am training and improving, rather than drifting along.<br /><br />Since my heart rate never exceeds 163, and I can row up to half marathon distance with my pulse under 160, I think I can largely ignore my pulse for now and work on my pace and technique. The fast times will come on their own if I do enough 10K plus work to improve my endurance and stamina.<br />

[[old] jamesg]

PW<br /><br />HR training over long distances is complicated by drift due to temperatures and dehydration. A rule seen on another thread here says: reach the set HR at 20-25 minutes into the w/o, then maintain pace and ignore HR. <br /><br />Example: yesterday I did a 10k and was at 138 and 2:09 between 20 and 25 minutes in. Air temp was 31C=88F, RH must have been 80%. Reached 148 at the end, average 2:09.5, rating 19.<br /><br />This was well away from the no pain no gain mantra of the last century, but it's work all the same judging by the amount of sweat, so has its effect.<br /><br />140 may be a bit low for you for UT2, I use this and I'm 65. And of course you can also do UT1.. <br /><br />The 220-age rule for MHR is on the safe side. If you feel like going to the dangerous side, try the 25W step test described in <br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php</a> where you can see Calculating Your Maximum Heart Rate after requesting the Interactive programme for yourself.

[[old] TomR/the elder]

If you've been training for any period of time doing UT2 work for a mere 10k probably is not going to tax you much. It's a nice little recovery day. <br /><br />That said, you might want to try UT2 for 60, 75, or even 90 minutes. Everything I've read suggests this training will promote the physiological adaptations necessary for endurance. You may find in doing longer UT2 sessions, you're better off setting a pace that doesn't push your heart rate too high as opposed to sticking to the manual's recommended pace, which may put you in the red zone by the end of the workout.<br /><br />Tom

[[old] PeterWilkinson]

JG,<br /><br />I have read the section on Calculating Your Maximum Heart Rate, but it is not very clear to me and I am a bit confused about how it works. I know that I need to row the first interval at < 140 b.p.m. with the display set on 500m pace. <br /><br />From there, if I understand it correctly, I need to use the 500m pace from the first interval to determine how fast the second interval is rowed. Presumably this means using the nearest value from the table to determine the first, second and subsequent paces for each interval. So, if I row the first interval at 1:57 pace (between 200 & 225 watts), should the second interval be at 225 or 250 watts? In this example, this would mean rowing the second interval at 1:55.9 or 1:51.9 pace, and a drop from 1:57 to 1:51.9 seems a bit steep.<br /><br />Since the second and subsequent intervals need to be +25 watts higher than the previous interval, wouldn't it make more sense to display watts instead of 500m pace? Then you wouldn't need the conversion table at all.<br /><br />What does "until you blow" mean? When I can't maintain the pace any longer? Looking at the drops for each interval, that will probably happen fairly quickly, probably by the fourth interval, if not the third... Presumably then my MHR will be determined by my heart rate at the point when "I blow".<br />

[[old] PeterWilkinson]

Just an update. Still working on longer distances, typically aiming for 1 hour rows at 2:02 pace, or 10K in a variety of formats, (S10MPS or between 2:00-1:57 pace).<br /><br />I do find that when I do an hour at 2:02 pace, as I did yesterday, it feels so comfortable after 30 minutes that I am always tempted to go faster in the second half-hour. However, I always overdo it and go too fast, with the result that I end up blowing up with about 15 minutes to go. (After a quick drink break, I can usually get moving again and finish the piece at an average pace below 2:01, but I understand that is not the point of the exercise). I do find it a real struggle to row a constant pace right through the hour, but I will persevere until I get it right.<br /><br />Presumably, once I can row an hour at 2:02 pace consistently, the aim will then be to repeat the exercise while reducing my heart rate, or alternatively to maintain a slightly quicker pace throughout, without blowing up.

[[old] PeterWilkinson]

Another update. Finished a one hour row today without stopping or blowing up.<br /><br />Set the splits on the machine to 10:00 and rowed the first at 2:02.0 pace. Splits were as follows:<br /><br />10:00 - 2459m @ 2:02.0 24SPM<br />20:00 - 2469m @ 2:01.5 24SPM<br />30:00 - 2479m @ 2:01.0 26SPM<br />40:00 - 2484m @ 2:00.7 28SPM<br />50:00 - 2504m @ 1:59.8 30SPM<br />60:00 - 2537m @ 1:58.2 31SPM<br /><br />Total distance: 14,932m Average: 2:00.5 @ 27SPM.<br /><br />My personal best (15,340m) was set in June, and was considerably quicker than this, but I have been struggling to keep going recently and it was nice to row an hour without stopping. Obviously, rowing at a reasonably even pace, with gentle negative splits is the way to go...<br /><br />Should I continue rowing these long rows at the same pace and try to bring my heartrate down, or should I be trying to row slightly faster splits to bring the speed up gradually?

[[old] Neb154]

I'm a fan of just trying to improve your splits since in the end, its your splits that matter on your 2k, not your heart rate. However, too get the most effective training, i'd suggest lowering your spm. I'd recommend nothing higher then a 24 average for these longer steady state pieces. Save the higher rates for shorter pieces. And also, if your rowing at a 27 on your hours, whats your 2k spm?

[[old] PeterWilkinson]

My 2K stroke rate probably averages about 30-31 for the first 1500m, but will be up around 40 at the end. Having said that, I haven't rowed a proper fast 2K for some time now.<br /><br />I started this thread to get people's thoughts on how to break seven minutes. Whenever I have set off to do a fast 2K, my mind is always set on breaking this mystical barrier, and to date I have not managed to row the right pace and I always end up losing the pace badly somewhere between 1000m and 1600m.<br /><br />I am still hopeful that all this longer distance work will pay dividends by the time I do the BIRC in November. Ideally, I would like to break seven minutes before this event, so that I can relax at the BIRC, knowing that I am capable of going sub-7.<br /><br />I have found that I can row 8 X 500m at sub 1:45 pace with 2:30 rests, and I will have a go at the 4 X 1000m in the next day or two. Most people on this forum seem to think that is the best indicator of 2K pace, without actually rowing the 2K.<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Yes it's the splits that matter, not your heart rate and NOT your stroke rate either.<br /><br />The stroke rate is not relevant. If you go faster at 24 spm then do it. <br /><br />However if you go faster at 30 to 36 spm then that's the rate you should be using.

[[old] michaelb]

I think the hour long rows are going to help, but I would also work to reduce the stroke rate. I have rowed for the past 2 years at 10 meters per stroke, and like that approach, but even if you don't follow that strictly you still may want to increase your power per stroke, and reduce your stroke rate, both for training and maybe what you do for racing.<br /><br />If we go back to the beginning of this thread, you seem to have plenty of speed to go sub7, so that is the reason to work on developing your power and endurance.<br /><br />I find one of the "benefits" of the 10mps methodology is that you only increase your SR when you also increase your power. So your SR would not generally drift up during a row like what you are listing, unless you are also racheting up the power and staying in "ratio". At 10mps, your SR at 2:00 pace is 25. So I would do your hour at SR=24 or 25 and continue to work around the 2:00 pace. <br /><br />10mps=<br />Pace SR<br />2:15 22<br />2:10 23<br />2:05 24<br />2:00 25<br />1:55 26<br />1:50 27<br />1:45 29<br />1:40 30

[[old] PeterWilkinson]

Michael,<br /><br />I have done a couple of 10K S10MPS rows and I really enjoy doing them, which is something of a revelation for me. Actally, having done one hour rows on Monday and Tuesday, I am planning to do another strapless 10K today. I will aim for the 2:00/500m pace at 25SPM and let you know how it goes.<br /><br />Having taken the advice previously offered on this thread, I have been working on my endurance and stamina, while also improving my technique and I am finding that rowing these longer distances under control is improving my pace discipline and my confidence in being able to finish the distance, without blowing up. <br /><br />In addition to my aim of breaking seven minutes for 2K, I am also now aiming to complete a full marathon because I am finding that my range is much better than I previously thought it was, (having come from a weight training background where everything was geared towards short bursts of maximal effort).<br /><br />Thanks again to everyone for the advice and support. I am aware that others are also benefitting from the comments and questions this thread has raised, and long may it continue. Hopefully we will all be better rowers as long as people can keep the flow of information and advice going.<br /><br />Best regards<br />Peter

[[old] R S T]

<!--QuoteBegin-PeterWilkinson+Jul 26 2005, 09:51 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Jul 26 2005, 09:51 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />I do find that when I do an hour at 2:02 pace, as I did yesterday, it feels so comfortable after 30 minutes that I am always tempted to go faster in the second half-hour. However, I always overdo it and go too fast, with the result that I end up blowing up with about 15 minutes to go. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Hi Peter<br /><br />In addition to all the training advice, you may have accidentally highlighted part of your problem, that is DISCIPLINE.<br /><br />I refer back to your initial post about starting your 2k too fast - you have observed the exact same problem while doing this 60 min row. Try and discipline yourself at pace and SPM in your training pieces. I find that discipline with spits is a major confidence boost when going for a PB. (in fact, I find the discipline used in erging helps me in general day to day life as well - sorry to go all 'new age' on you, but I do indeed find that my modest erging accomplishments helps with general all round confidence).<br /><br />If I were you I would plan a 2k attempt soon - and show yourself that all your good preparation has been worthwhile. If you do not get sub 7 this time don't worry. Chances are you will get a PB. Keep chipping away at it, and good luck.<br /><br />RichardT<br /><br />PS - My other tip for a 2k PB is to have some good upbeat music of your choice at hand - whatever rocks your boat. Two short high beat tracks will see you through your 6 mins 59 sec of pain.