Breaking Seven Minutes

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » June 29th, 2005, 2:33 pm

I think getting PB's for distances is a great way of building endurance. After all, you have to have more endurance, to attain the PB's.

[old] hennmart · Post by **[old] hennmart** » June 29th, 2005, 3:28 pm

I just made a lot of k's (10 or more a day). I did a lot 10k's., 1H's., hm's and marathons for my endurance. And when time passes (5/6 months) I did my first 2k. under 7 min. I think (know) you can do the same! Hennie

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » June 29th, 2005, 3:47 pm

This was the post I was thinking of. It is only 13 pages long, and I am not sure I read the whole thing, and looking at the end, I think the thread veered off course a little, but still an interesting read (the middle part is the key, since people were wrong at the beginning). <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1046' target='_blank'>UT2</a>

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » June 29th, 2005, 9:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Jun 29 2005, 05:30 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I need advice. In comparing my ranking entries from last season to this season, I am very happy with the progress I have made at most distances. My best 1K time has improved by 8.3 seconds, my 5K by 23.3 seconds, and my 10K by 1:04.9. My fitness has definitely improved since I started rowing in April 2004 when my first 2K time was 7:50. In February 2005, my first ever 10K took 45:45.6 and it was a real struggle just to finish it. My current PB is 38:38.3 and I recently completed a half marathon in 1:23:34.8. My best 500m time is 1:29.6 and my 1K is 3:18.9, which both indicate that I should be able to row a sub-7 2K. So why am I struggling with my 2K, which has reduced from 7:09.6, set last year at the BIRC, to 7:04.7 this month. This is only an improvement of 4.9 seconds and does not seem to fit in with the other improvements I have made. I am currently rowing 500m intervals twice a week in order to improve my chances. I can comfortably maintain 1:42.8 pace for 5 sets, with 2 minute rests and the last set is usually rowed at sub 1:42 pace with a 1:42.6 average across the five sets. I also row longer distances, (5K up to one hour), once a week to improve my aerobic capacity and technique. On a timed 2K row, I generally coast through the first 500m at about 1:43.5-1:44.0, then I slow down in the second 500m aiming for a 1:45 pace, but then often blow up or slow down dramatically in the third 500m. At 1500m, my 500m average is usually over 1:46 and can be as high as 1:50. I wonder if the problem may be more mental than physical, and any advice or pointers would be gratefully appreciated. </td></tr></table> Hello Peter There is a great book to buy: ROWING FASTER by Volker Nolte. He asked several good international coaches to write different chapters about conditioning and rowing in general. Check it out. It is the best source of information available. Be careful with interval training. Too much intensity is not helping your aerobic capcity. In a 2k 80% of the effort comes from the aerobic engine. As you produce lactic acid the aerobic capacity reabsorbs the acid for its own cycle produce energy, CO2 and H2O. Take a look a the book. All the best, XENO I hope you are having a great summer.

[old] ancho · Post by **[old] ancho** » June 30th, 2005, 2:06 am

Row lots of +10k pieces, and the "great day" make a very good warmup. There are spme interesting threads discussing about warmups. If you pass a bad moment around the 1k, save yourself counting short stroke intervals/targets (eg 20 strokes or 250 m), and then: pull harder!! Good luck, I'm sure it shouldn't take you too long!

[old] Polaco · Post by **[old] Polaco** » June 30th, 2005, 4:41 am

Peter : As I read sometime, somewhere at this forum: Row!! Row until you see God and then........sprint Just kidding but taking a look at your performace with other distances I also think that you are in physical condition to achieve a sub7, it's a matter of strategy and mentalization. Good luck!!

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » June 30th, 2005, 4:42 am

MichaelB, OK, I get it. I have become a bit obsessed with setting new PBs lately. I am scheduled to do a 30 minute piece today, which with warmup and warmdown, should take my total metres for this season (since May 1st) over my previous season total (May 04 - April 05). I knew I have been increasing my work rate and doing longer distances recently, but I never expected to exceed my previous 12 month metres total in two months. This increased workload has already lifted my fitness significantly since I started in April 04, but I will do as you suggest, dropping the interval work in favour of doing 10K, 30 and 60 minute pieces as the core of my training, working in UT2 and UT1 ranges and with the occasional restricted stroke rate pieces. My endurance should certainly improve after a month or two of this new regime. The full marathon is the only ranking distance I haven't tried yet, and I was aiming to tackle it before attending the BIRC in November. If I aim to do the marathon in early October, then start back on the interval work from then up to the BIRC on 20th November, I should go well below 7 minutes. It will kill me not to give the 2K a try before then, but as plenty of people have stated, it is not just my endurance, but also my mental approach which needs to be right for the 2K. My recent disappointmenting 2K efforts mean that my head is not in the right place just now, and I think some steady endurance work will take my mind off the 2K completely until I am closer to the competition in November. Thanks again for considering my situation. I will let you know how I am progressing. Best regards

[old] reynolds352 · Post by **[old] reynolds352** » June 30th, 2005, 12:23 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Jun 30 2005, 04:42 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>MichaelB, OK, I get it. I have become a bit obsessed with setting new PBs lately. I am scheduled to do a 30 minute piece today, which with warmup and warmdown, should take my total metres for this season (since May 1st) over my previous season total (May 04 - April 05). I knew I have been increasing my work rate and doing longer distances recently, but I never expected to exceed my previous 12 month metres total in two months. This increased workload has already lifted my fitness significantly since I started in April 04, but I will do as you suggest, dropping the interval work in favour of doing 10K, 30 and 60 minute pieces as the core of my training, working in UT2 and UT1 ranges and with the occasional restricted stroke rate pieces. My endurance should certainly improve after a month or two of this new regime. The full marathon is the only ranking distance I haven't tried yet, and I was aiming to tackle it before attending the BIRC in November. If I aim to do the marathon in early October, then start back on the interval work from then up to the BIRC on 20th November, I should go well below 7 minutes. It will kill me not to give the 2K a try before then, but as plenty of people have stated, it is not just my endurance, but also my mental approach which needs to be right for the 2K. My recent disappointmenting 2K efforts mean that my head is not in the right place just now, and I think some steady endurance work will take my mind off the 2K completely until I am closer to the competition in November. Thanks again for considering my situation. I will let you know how I am progressing. Best regards </td></tr></table> Personally, I think the only way to get your head in the right place for a 2K is to do them more frequently. Tack it onto the beginning of a couple of your days' workouts and pull hard, but don't make it a race. Get used to the distance, your race strategy, even now this far in advance. Find something that works for you. This is what I have always done for 2Ks, and though I haven't broken 7 minutes, I'm certainly not unsure of my abilities. On top of this, it lets you see how your other training is helping your 2K. At least I've always thought so. Good luck and I hope you get to that goal! - Adam

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » June 30th, 2005, 8:34 pm

I'd bet you can do a sub-7 2k on Saturday. Your times at various distances are the same as, or faster than, mine were when I managed to go sub-7. Like you, my endurance is unimpressive, but if you don't go out too fast in your 2k attempt, you'll make it. Take Friday off after your 30 min pb attempt and do it. Start out at slightly over 1.45 for the first 1000, and then begin to pick up the pace, but don't overdo it too early. My experience tells me that sub-40 10ks will help you. Do them at an even pace rather than counting on a sprint at the end to get your time down. Also I found that trying to keep the SPM at about 24 helped w/ power as well as endurance. When you are sharpening for your 2k attempts, try the 4 x1k intervals. Somewhere in the middle of the final one, you will conclude life is not worth living, but the experience will make you faster on the erg. As we know, nothing is more important than that. Good luck. Tom

[old] ancho · Post by **[old] ancho** » July 1st, 2005, 2:35 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ancho @ Jun 30 2005, 07:06 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Good luck, I'm sure it shouldn't take you too long! </td></tr></table> That is: Less than 7 minutes! Row harder!!

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » July 3rd, 2005, 12:23 pm

Ladies & Gents: I have seen recommendations that one follow 'The Interactive" for X number of weeks. Since I have just started indoor rowing in May, and have barely been able to break 8:00 for 2K, but have pulled 1:41 for 500m, I feel my 2K time should be much better. Would someone be kind enough to explain what "The Interactive" is? I assume it is a highly regarded training program, but need help finding it online. Thanks & Cheers!

[old] whp4 · Post by **[old] whp4** » July 3rd, 2005, 1:22 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jul 3 2005, 04:23 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ladies & Gents: I have seen recommendations that one follow 'The Interactive" for X number of weeks. Since I have just started indoor rowing in May, and have barely been able to break 8:00 for 2K, but have pulled 1:41 for 500m, I feel my 2K time should be much better. Would someone be kind enough to explain what "The Interactive" is? I assume it is a highly regarded training program, but need help finding it online. Thanks & Cheers! </td></tr></table> It's found on the Concept2 UK site, at <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php</a> It is primarily targetted at preparing you to row a 2k a few months in the future. You're right that you should be able to do better at 2k, given your 500m speed, but you most likely need to build your endurance substantially. As a rough guide, with a reasonable balance between strength and endurance, you should be able to go twice the distance at a pace about 5 seconds/500m slower. In your case, that would suggest something around 1:41+0:05+0:05 = 1:51 pace for 2k, or 7:24. I wouldn't bother with any sort of speed work, just lots of longer rows to build up your aerobic base. Doing a daily 10k for a few weeks will do wonders to improve your ability to row anything other than a short sprint. Pick a pace that you can sustain for the whole 10k, and gradually increase it as your fitness improves. Or search the forum archives for the "Stop the Madness" plan by Paul Smith (PaulS). In any case, keep a log of your workouts so you can document the improvements in your fitness. Bill

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » July 3rd, 2005, 2:09 pm

Bill: Thanks, that's exactly what I've been doing -- 10K to 20K daily, most in 10K + 2x5K pieces (or more smaller pieces like 5x2K), spread across two workouts daily. My 10K time has dropped substantially, and now it takes some effort to get into my HR Training Range (I have to think about it to get there and stay there some days). I figure I just need to row harder across all pieces -- step the training rates up a notch, so to speak. I haven't tried a 2K time trail in several weeks, but would hope the aerobic training would allow me to drop some substantial time. Thanks again, and regards. -- Mark

[old] Chris-lbc · Post by **[old] Chris-lbc** » July 7th, 2005, 12:26 pm

Personally I find that doing a 2k with at least 3 other people all rowing in time and having someone shouting at me really improves my 2k time especially in the brutal 3rd 500m. I reckon it's worth at least 8 seconds. Chris

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » July 12th, 2005, 9:42 am

Hi Guys, Have taken your advice and started rowing 10K @ strict UT2 pace. In my case, this means rowing in a heart range of 121-139 @ 20 SPM. Initially, I found it really tough to keep my pulse below 140, but I did get the hang of it after a few minutes, although to achieve this, my 500m average pace was very slow. I finished the 10K in 44:26.5 @ 2:13.3/500m. But, my pulse was at 138-139 for most of the row, and I did achieve a 20 SPM average across the piece. I also tried to concentrate on good technique for each stroke, in an effort to make each one count. I intend to row 10K 3-4 times per week for the next few weeks. Presumably, as I continue with this regime, the aim will be to get a more powerful drive to bring down the 500m average pace, while maintaining the same low heart/stroke rate? So should I alternate my 10K rows between UT2 and UT1 (heart rate 139-151/stroke rate 22-24), or should I stick to UT2 as above, until I can get a reasonable pace back while staying within the prescribed heart and stroke rates? By the way, went through my first million metres on Saturday. Well pleased... Best regards