Looking for tips to get faster

[Tsnor]

I always rested (active) until my HR got to 2xRHR, which was around 1:30, rarely as long as 2 mins. 2 mins always seems ample. Then I read everything I could find by Mike Caviston and now do my 500 intervals at 5’ starts, 1k at 10’ starts and 2k at 15’ starts. For me that’s 8’ rest between for a 4 x 2k. Means I can do 4 x sub 7’ 2ks, which I couldn’t do with 2’ rest.
Mike’s view makes sense, to me. Whilst I could work hard and slow down to 7:10 or so with shorter rest I prefer the ‘quality’ of sub 7s all the way.
I guess there’s a study to ‘prove’ any number of approaches.

"Means I can do 4 x sub 7’ 2ks, which I couldn’t do with 2’ rest. " Neat. So your observation is that with the 2 mins rest you would do 7:10 and with 8 min rest you are under 7... a significant difference.

The 12 trained runners in the study run the same pace with 2 mins rest as with 4 mins rest. The runners could not see the rate they were running, but could choose the rate. The study results seem compelling that the additional rest over 2 mins did not let the runners hit a higher effort level. The runners were doing 4 minute intervals.

I’m not a doctor, or a scientist and my example of taking a sample of 1 subjects could well be bull——
My main point was that if Mike Caviston says it’s a good thing, then it’s probably a good thing. Then again there are probably people who don’t agree with his methods.
Even if I could do the same times with 2 mins rest the way I see it is at worst I am wasting a few minutes of my life by resting a little longer. It doesn’t appear that I’m losing any training benefit.

Seriously, not kidding around, I find your data point as compelling as the ones in the study. No doctor here either. It took a lot of data to get me to drop my workouts from 150 beats/min to 135-140... and if I don't see results I like in a few months I'll start ignoring the data and go back to what I was doing. But if I do get good results they will be because the data got me to try something I would not have done.

Can you give me any pointers to the best things to read by Mike Caviston?

[Ombrax]

Can you give me any pointers to the best things to read by Mike Caviston?

Some background:

https://www.row2k.com/features/391/Mike ... avy-SEALS/


Here's a start:

https://www.sealswcc.com/pdf/physical-t ... e-2020.pdf

Wolverine Plan Info:

https://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/t ... nePlan.pdf

[Tony Cook]

What Ombrax said ^
Plus - search for Mike’s posts on this forum. There are a couple of threads in particular where he has contributed a lot.

[Dangerscouse]

The more I read, and the more I watch people's progress under different training methods, the more convinced I become that there are many many different variations on what works for different people.

As Tony alludes to, there's confirmation bias at play and, within reason, you find a study to confirm more or less whatever you want to believe.

Furthermore as Tsnor says, nothing can beat trying something for a while, and really analysing the results, and then assessing what is good, what is bad and what is indifferent to you.

[Tsnor]

Thank you all for the references.

I had read the Wolverine plan 4-5 years ago but didn't know that was Mike's, and didn't really understand it. The one piece I took was the lower stroke rate / higher output per stroke concept. I still use that, still think it's true. Definitely worth a re-read now that I have more background.

TRUTH --> "..more I watch people's progress under different training methods, the more convinced I become that there are many many different variations on what works for different people.."

Will do --> ".. search for Mike’s posts on this forum" Do you know what ID he used to post ? A forum search yielded 85 pages of people referencing his name. Looking at a few pages of posts at random I could not find posts any by him.

[Ombrax]

Do you know what ID he used to post ?

The list of forum members shows him as "Mike Caviston"

[max_ratcliffe]

Hopefully this link will work. There are lots of posts from MC in this thread. Unfortunately the archiving process has left heaps of weird hieroglyphics in the posts but there is plenty of wisdom from Mike (and inevitable nonsense from trolls).

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4190

Googling "wp notes" should also result in a very useful collection of his posts where he fleshed out some of how to create a training plan iaw the wp.

Great stuff.

Even if you don't adopt the wp, his thoughts on pacing and structuring a long term plan are well worth a read.

Edit: there's a link to the notes I referred to here: https://quantifiedrowing.com/rowing-links/

[Dangerscouse]

TRUTH --> "..more I watch people's progress under different training methods, the more convinced I become that there are many many different variations on what works for different people.."

100% agree. There is no one size fits all method, and the issue is that the tipping point for a training programme is very hard to identify until you've made significant progress away from your goals. Early progress is almost always going to happen when you've adapted to it, so it's a dark art trying to pick apart what works and what doesn't, especially when there's, inter alia, diet, life issues, sleep, hydration etc to consider too.