Ergo Urban Myths

[[old] ajspook]

Hi,<br />I don't row for any clubs or know any one that rows, so I have no one to ask this question to.<br />I've checked out the C2 rankings, but it's hard to get a real feel for what's good and what's not.<br />If anyone could answer this questions I'd be really grateful, and it will help me set some realistic goals.<br />I'm never going to be a world class rower, but want to aim to be 'bloody fit'. What sort of score would a club rower need to do, to be classed as one of the strongest in his crew? P.S. interested in 30m and 2k time, also I'm (going to be!) a lightweight.

[[old] jamesg]

Crew members row together and don't worry about who's strongest, you do the particular job assigned. What will get you thrown out is no rhythm, bad timing, washing out and similar sins.<br /><br />For the erg, you get fit by getting on and pulling, keeping heart rate low, hours high and technique perfect. Good technique is especially important because it lets you work all and only the muscles needed to their capacity, so loading the CV system as much as possible to get the training effect.<br /><br />For what it's worth, if you're a LWM, 7' puts you on the front page of the LW 2k rankings. You can access these from this page as well as logging your work:<br /><a href='http://concept2.com/sranking03/log.asp' target='_blank'>http://concept2.com/sranking03/log.asp</a><br />

[[old] Carl Henrik]

If you think that you can get a good erg score and show up at a rowing club and claim you would be one of the strongest in the crew, you are very wrong. Even if you would learn to row very well, there may still be those who are 15 secs slower than you on the erg, of equal weight, and still beats you on water. Starting out as an erger, the more time and experience I gather in the on water rowing community, the more I see how little erging means for moving a boat fast.<br /><br />Erging is a discipline in itself and some people are better at erging than rowing, even if they train for both, and for others it's the opposite. <br /><br />"What sort of score would a club rower need to do, to be classed as one of the strongest in his crew?"<br /><br />I think a good anwser to this is that the sort of score to do is a good single scull score, for sculling crews. <br /><br />Talking about good erg scores though, for a sedentary light weight off the street going sub 7:20 for 2k I would consider unusually good. When starting out I considered sub 7 as meaning you have an enormous aerobic capacity. Amongst normal people I would call this bloody fit. But it all depends what you relate to. <br /><br />A member at my club ran 10k at 37 mins when being a runner, he then switched to rowing and was able to do 6:59.9 and considerd this to be equal to a 36 min 10k running for him. He was 70kg at the time. Another member at my club actually ran 10 at 36min and pulled 6:39 for 2k. I believe he was 83kg at the time and he is quite tall which means his erging was more economic than the others.<br /><br />The carry over between erging and running is off course even less than between erging and rowing but to sum it up I think that as a lwt going sub 7 you will be able to carry yourself very well in other sports and activities.

[[old] FrankJ]

Normal people do not Erg.<br /><br />I know nothing about on water rowing and do not consider myself very strong but when I started erging at age 57 I broke 7 minutes in 4 months. My best 10K ever was about 38:34 and that was around 25 years ago. So I'm not an exceptional athlete.<br /><br />Frank

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-FrankJ+Jul 13 2005, 06:03 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrankJ @ Jul 13 2005, 06:03 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Normal people do not Erg.<br /><br />I know nothing about on water rowing and do not consider myself very strong but when I started erging at age 57 I broke 7 minutes in 4 months. My best 10K ever was about 38:34 and that was around 25 years ago. So I'm not an exceptional athlete.<br /><br />Frank <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Frank:<br /><br />I'm interested in your quick start at erging ...<br /><br />When you started erging, how fit were you in general? What fitness activity did you do for ... let's say ... the 10 years BEFORE you strated erging? I assume some fairly regular CV activity, no?<br /><br />Thanks -- Mark

[[old] John Rupp]

Calculate your PATT Percentages, the most accurate way to compare times across age, weight class, and gender.<br /><br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1276' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1276</a>

[[old] Pete Marston]

Did you say how old you are? To be considered "bloody fit" as a lightweight I would say under 6:30 (if you're under 40 years old).

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pete Marston+Jul 13 2005, 12:25 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Pete Marston @ Jul 13 2005, 12:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Did you say how old you are? To be considered "bloody fit" as a lightweight I would say under 6:30 (if you're under 40 years old). <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />How about over 40 -- like maybe 46? As a lightweight?<br /><br />

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pete Marston+Jul 13 2005, 11:25 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Pete Marston @ Jul 13 2005, 11:25 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Did you say how old you are? To be considered "bloody fit" as a lightweight I would say under 6:30 (if you're under 40 years old). <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />His profile suggests he's 36. <br /><br />That's a pretty severe standard, Pete -- only 6 30-39 MLWs broke 6:30 at the last Crash-Bs, only 2 at the EIRCs, and if you recombine categories only 5 at the last BIRCs.<br /><br />Granting that the 30-39 WR is Eskild's 6:06.4, the Crash-B record is 8 seconds slower and last year you had US Olympian Steve Tucker unable to break 6:20 at 35 years old. Most years and most competitions sub-6:30 is getting into the realm of national class, I should think.<br /><br />I'd venture that anything around 6:40 would be phenomenal at 36, and anything under 7 mins club standard. But I'm not a mid-30s LW and not really conversant with LW times, standards,etc.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Jul 13 2005, 09:42 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Jul 13 2005, 09:42 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not a mid-30s LW and not really conversant with LW times, standards,etc. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />What?!?!?! You're almost two of them... <br /><br />Just make the standard for lwts 5 sec/500m slower than their hwt counterparts, i.e. what's easy for a hwt is hard for a lwt. <br /><br />The 90th percentile for your category would be a good standard to at least be considered "reasonably fit", I'm not quite sure how much more fit you need to be to qualify for "bloody".

[[old] shr0omboy]

I was a walk on in an ivy league lightweight rowing program. I don't consider myself to be very naturally gifted, by winter training (maybe 5 months), i was able to break 7 minutes, just barely. The best walk ons broke 7 by a bit, went 6:55 - 7:00, meanwhile mmost of the recruits broke 6:50, with i think the best freshman on the team going just under 6:40.<br /><br />As a sophomore on the varsity team, after a year and a half from when i started erging/rowing, I was able to go 6:45, meanwhile a few of the best guys on the varsity were breaking 6:30. These are all 19-22 year olds.<br /><br />However, as stated above, your erg score, while showing your overall level of fitness, can still have very little to do with how well you move a boat. <br /><br />well, i hope that helps you see where the ergs on a pretty good lightweight rowing program are.

[[old] Matt Newman]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Jul 13 2005, 05:42 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Jul 13 2005, 05:42 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd venture that anything around 6:40 would be phenomenal at 36 </td></tr></table><br /><br />Very kind of you to say so, NavHaz - hope I'll have got to 6:40 and still be there in 2 or 3 years <br />

[[old] FrankJ]

<!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Jul 13 2005, 11:38 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jul 13 2005, 11:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />Frank:<br /><br />I'm interested in your quick start at erging ...<br /><br />When you started erging, how fit were you in general?  What fitness activity did you do for ... let's say ... the 10 years BEFORE you strated erging?  I assume some fairly regular CV activity, no?<br /><br />Thanks -- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />When I started erging I was relatively unfit for me. I had been a runner and cyclist for about 28 years (ages 27 to 55). After the corporate track season when I was 55 I started having serious knee problems especially my right knee. A knee specialist advised finding something other than running. I did just some cycling in nicer weather for the next 2 years and then discovered the erg around the end or October 2.5 years ago.<br /><br />What I found with the erg was that I was able to train hard and still recover quickly. Toward the end of my running career one or 2 hard workouts a week would do me in. On the erg I could easily do a hard workout every other day and sometimes I did 2 hard workouts in a row before doing an easy day. I honestly felt like I was in my 30s again. With workouts like that it didn't take long to get back into top shape and I learned early on from Paul Smith how to do S10PS and that really helped my technique. <br /><br />Frank

[[old] ajspook]

Thanks alot for the feedback everyone, I think I have found the answers I need.<br />I understand good ergo scores don't mean you can row fast, given I'm never going to sit in a boat this doesn't bother me.<br />The reason I was interested in a good club rowers score, was purely as a benchmark, a realistic aim, I have no intention of walking in of the street and blowing anyone away, it's just to help me set some goals for myself.<br />I'm thinking sub 7 mintutes sounds like a decent score, and I'm going to aim at 8000m for 30 minutes.<br />I am 7 weeks into doing ergs, I haven't tried a 2k one yet, on my first 30m try I got 7020m, that's now upto 7591m, so getting better.<br />Last night I did my 1st hour erg (after reading suggestions on this forum) my fingers even hurt to type this morning, but it feels great if you know what I mean..<br />I'll let you know when (if) I get these times.<br />I now have something (hopefully realistic to chase) so I'll see how I go..<br />Cheers<br />Andy

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-FrankJ+Jul 13 2005, 07:20 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrankJ @ Jul 13 2005, 07:20 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Jul 13 2005, 11:38 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jul 13 2005, 11:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />Frank:<br /><br />I'm interested in your quick start at erging ...<br /><br />When you started erging, how fit were you in general?  What fitness activity did you do for ... let's say ... the 10 years BEFORE you strated erging?  I assume some fairly regular CV activity, no?<br /><br />Thanks -- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />When I started erging I was relatively unfit for me. I had been a runner and cyclist for about 28 years (ages 27 to 55). After the corporate track season when I was 55 I started having serious knee problems especially my right knee. A knee specialist advised finding something other than running. I did just some cycling in nicer weather for the next 2 years and then discovered the erg around the end or October 2.5 years ago.<br /><br />What I found with the erg was that I was able to train hard and still recover quickly. Toward the end of my running career one or 2 hard workouts a week would do me in. On the erg I could easily do a hard workout every other day and sometimes I did 2 hard workouts in a row before doing an easy day. I honestly felt like I was in my 30s again. With workouts like that it didn't take long to get back into top shape and I learned early on from Paul Smith how to do S10PS and that really helped my technique. <br /><br />Frank <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Frank:<br /><br />Thanks for filling in the detail. <br /><br />To be fair, you spent all but ... maybe ... 6 months of the past 32 years training for CV fitness. For your age, your 2K times and others (other distances) are "killer". A guy like me, who has trained very moderately for many years to age 46, looks at your times and says, "No way can I do those!" But, the reality is that ... maybe ... just maybe ... with a proper training plan and monitoring of progress ...someone like me could get closer ... but it will take years ... just like it has ... REALLY ... for you. <br /><br />Sure, I knocked about 30 seconds off my 5K PR last weekend, but I'm still not under 20:00. As a newbie, progress comes fast, and then tails off. All of us newbies need to realize this, not get discouraged, realize the solution is better training plans ( and more beer), enjoy ourselves, and get on with it. <br /><br />This is a great sport and a great group of people all ready to help and add their two cents where they can.<br /><br />Thanks -- Mark<br />