Ergometer Technique

[old] reynolds352 · Post by **[old] reynolds352** » July 3rd, 2005, 1:13 pm

All right. I keep seeing pictures of members' profiles where they end the drive with the handle in their navel. It was my impression from my coaches that proper technique on the erg is to pull the handle to the sternum. This makes sense - in a boat, it keeps the blade in the water and in addition, on both the erg and on water, it gives more leverage. So what gives?<br /><br />Also, I personally am finding that not going past vertical shins is nearly impossible if I am to keep decent pace. It shortens my drive too much. Is this how it should be, should I just get used to it? Or if it feels right, should I just keep doing what I am doing?<br /><br />Thanks! To United Statesers, happy 4th.

[old] allapologies916 · Post by **[old] allapologies916** » July 3rd, 2005, 3:26 pm

keep the handle level... as for the shins, I can't really help you there... Ive heard so many different things on that... so.... yeh

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » July 4th, 2005, 9:19 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(reynolds352 @ Jul 3 2005, 12:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>All right. I keep seeing pictures of members' profiles where they end the drive with the handle in their navel. It was my impression from my coaches that proper technique on the erg is to pull the handle to the sternum. This makes sense - in a boat, it keeps the blade in the water and in addition, on both the erg and on water, it gives more leverage. So what gives?<br /><br />Also, I personally am finding that not going past vertical shins is nearly impossible if I am to keep decent pace. It shortens my drive too much. Is this how it should be, should I just get used to it? Or if it feels right, should I just keep doing what I am doing?<br /><br />Thanks! To United Statesers, happy 4th. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I think that the theory is that too much past vertical and you lose some of the important efficiency/leverage from the main muscles - there is a thread on this somewhere but it may be on the UK site.<br /><br />So, keeping vertical may be losing some length on the drive but you will be gaining more with the overall efficiency - if that makes sense.<br /><br />Also how tall/flexible are you? I am just over six feet (1.86m) but fairly flexible due to yoga/pilates and I can get pretty much all the way forward without going past vertical shins and without having to round my back. I use core strength to flex from the hips.<br /><br />Neil

[old] reynolds352 · Post by **[old] reynolds352** » July 4th, 2005, 11:17 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(neilb @ Jul 4 2005, 09:19 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(reynolds352 @ Jul 3 2005, 12:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>All right. I keep seeing pictures of members' profiles where they end the drive with the handle in their navel. It was my impression from my coaches that proper technique on the erg is to pull the handle to the sternum. This makes sense - in a boat, it keeps the blade in the water and in addition, on both the erg and on water, it gives more leverage. So what gives?<br /><br />Also, I personally am finding that not going past vertical shins is nearly impossible if I am to keep decent pace. It shortens my drive too much. Is this how it should be, should I just get used to it? Or if it feels right, should I just keep doing what I am doing?<br /><br />Thanks! To United Statesers, happy 4th. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I think that the theory is that too much past vertical and you lose some of the important efficiency/leverage from the main muscles - there is a thread on this somewhere but it may be on the UK site.<br /><br />So, keeping vertical may be losing some length on the drive but you will be gaining more with the overall efficiency - if that makes sense.<br /><br />Also how tall/flexible are you? I am just over six feet (1.86m) but fairly flexible due to yoga/pilates and I can get pretty much all the way forward without going past vertical shins and without having to round my back. I use core strength to flex from the hips.<br /><br />Neil <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm 5ft10in, just under 150lbs, so it's very easy for me to pivot at the hips. No keg to stop my movement (Oh, a keg is the opposite of a 6-pack.) Basically, by doing that and by separating my shoulderblades I can reach almost all the way to the catch... it just feels like a much shorter drive with the legs, and feels like it's harder to keep a high pace. I'll work on it for a week, do a few 10k pieces keeping it around vertical, see how it works.<br /><br />Thanks to both of you for your comments!

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » July 4th, 2005, 12:43 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(reynolds352 @ Jul 3 2005, 12:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>All right. I keep seeing pictures of members' profiles where they end the drive with the handle in their navel. It was my impression from my coaches that proper technique on the erg is to pull the handle to the sternum. This makes sense - in a boat, it keeps the blade in the water and in addition, on both the erg and on water, it gives more leverage. So what gives?<br /><br />Also, I personally am finding that not going past vertical shins is nearly impossible if I am to keep decent pace. It shortens my drive too much. Is this how it should be, should I just get used to it? Or if it feels right, should I just keep doing what I am doing?<br /><br />Thanks! To United Statesers, happy 4th. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi <br />Check out my stroke cycle link in my signature.<br />I hope you are having a great summer.<br />XENO

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » July 4th, 2005, 4:01 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(reynolds352 @ Jul 4 2005, 10:17 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I'm 5ft10in, just under 150lbs, so it's very easy for me to pivot at the hips. No keg to stop my movement (Oh, a keg is the opposite of a 6-pack.) Basically, by doing that and by separating my shoulderblades I can reach almost all the way to the catch... it just feels like a much shorter drive with the legs, and feels like it's harder to keep a high pace. I'll work on it for a week, do a few 10k pieces keeping it around vertical, see how it works.<br /><br />Thanks to both of you for your comments! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you are separating your shoulderblades are you leaning forward with the shoulders (if that makes sense). If so you may be rounding the top of your back whne you should be looking to sit more upright. So you pivot forward rather than roll.<br /><br />Erging next to a mirror may help. <br /><br />I would not worry about a high pace but concentrate on devloping a more powerful leg drive. This requires the vertical shins, engaged abs and strong back position then a powerful drive back leading with the butt, keeping the back in position before using the lean back towards the end of the stroke.<br /><br />I suggest you do play around with some of these thoughts and do not try to exert too much power whilst doing so but just work on developing the good technique. Then you can start to apply more power.<br /><br />Neil

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » July 4th, 2005, 4:14 pm

Hi<br />Send me your video/dvd of your rowing and I will analyse it. I will send you your footage back with my own DVD of my own rowing with comments and technical drill suggestions. <br />XENO

[old] reynolds352 · Post by **[old] reynolds352** » July 5th, 2005, 11:33 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(neilb @ Jul 4 2005, 04:01 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(reynolds352 @ Jul 4 2005, 10:17 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I'm 5ft10in, just under 150lbs, so it's very easy for me to pivot at the hips. No keg to stop my movement (Oh, a keg is the opposite of a 6-pack.) Basically, by doing that and by separating my shoulderblades I can reach almost all the way to the catch... it just feels like a much shorter drive with the legs, and feels like it's harder to keep a high pace. I'll work on it for a week, do a few 10k pieces keeping it around vertical, see how it works.<br /><br />Thanks to both of you for your comments! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you are separating your shoulderblades are you leaning forward with the shoulders (if that makes sense). If so you may be rounding the top of your back whne you should be looking to sit more upright. So you pivot forward rather than roll.<br /><br />Erging next to a mirror may help. <br /><br />I would not worry about a high pace but concentrate on devloping a more powerful leg drive. This requires the vertical shins, engaged abs and strong back position then a powerful drive back leading with the butt, keeping the back in position before using the lean back towards the end of the stroke.<br /><br />I suggest you do play around with some of these thoughts and do not try to exert too much power whilst doing so but just work on developing the good technique. Then you can start to apply more power.<br /><br />Neil <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well when I say that I separate my shoulders, think of this - when you are holding something with both hands in front of you, like the handle of the erg, your shoulders are about even with your body plane. But if you reach out just a little, not necessarily rounding your back, you can get a couple of inches longer reach. This is what I was taught by my on-water coach. I dunno how it translates to the best erg technique though. In any case, I've asked family to watch me and make sure my back is as straight as possible.<br /><br />I think my plan of doing some 10k pieces at a lower pace (strapless, of course) and vertical shins might get my acclimated to good form. I'll try it out...<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Xeno @ Jul 4 2005, 04:14 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hi<br />Send me your video/dvd of your rowing and I will analyse it. I will send you your footage back with my own DVD of my own rowing with comments and technical drill suggestions.<br />XENO <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I would if I could but I can't! Maybe I can find a friend's digital camera and use the movie mode. Might be a little flaky, but oh well.<br /><br />Thanks to you both...<br /><br /> - Adam

[old] Manda · Post by **[old] Manda** » July 12th, 2005, 9:32 am

Quote "All right. I keep seeing pictures of members' profiles where they end the drive with the handle in their navel. It was my impression from my coaches that proper technique on the erg is to pull the handle to the sternum. This makes sense - in a boat, it keeps the blade in the water and in addition, on both the erg and on water, it gives more leverage. So what gives?"<br /><br />What gives is that one can arse around on an erg with terrible technique and no-one will notice. Same thing in a boat, and either you'll tip out or piss off the rest of your crew. Your coaches are correct about hand height, and it applies to water as well as ergs.<br /><br />Quote "Also, I personally am finding that not going past vertical shins is nearly impossible if I am to keep decent pace. It shortens my drive too much. Is this how it should be, should I just get used to it? Or if it feels right, should I just keep doing what I am doing?"<br /><br />No, it's not "hard" to stop over-compressing. You just need to work at it. As someone above said, use a mirror. Or a coach. You might "feel" like you've shortened your drive - but does the readout confirm it? What you also need to in conjunction, is learn to "let the boat run" at the end of the drive (it works for erg flywheels too). When you rush back up the slide and start the catch too quickly, you will actually brake all the momentum you've just gained. IT WILL SLOW YOU DOWN.<br /><br />As per, most things to do with rowing are actually counter-intuitive.

[old] daveojeda · Post by **[old] daveojeda** » July 12th, 2005, 2:43 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Manda @ Jul 12 2005, 07:32 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>No, it's not "hard" to stop over-compressing. You just need to work at it. As someone above said, use a mirror. Or a coach. You might "feel" like you've shortened your drive - but does the readout confirm it? What you also need to in conjunction, is learn to "let the boat run" at the end of the drive (it works for erg flywheels too). When you rush back up the slide and start the catch too quickly, you will actually brake all the momentum you've just gained. IT WILL SLOW YOU DOWN.<br /><br />As per, most things to do with rowing are actually counter-intuitive. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Could you explain further about letting the ERG run?? I am very interested to here how sowing the recovery will be benificial to your overall time. I thought a more powerful drive and a quick stroke rate were the key to better times. As a newbie this is something that needs clarification.<br /><br />All help is appreciated!!<br />

[old] Byron Drachman · Post by **[old] Byron Drachman** » July 13th, 2005, 6:12 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Could you explain further about letting the ERG run?? </td></tr></table><br /><br />The DVD's with Xeno or Xeno and Lucas illustrate the point nicely. When you start the recovery by first arms forward and then the arms pull the body to a lean forward with the knees still down, you shift your center of gravity forward and you can see the erg start its "run" on the slides. Xeno also recommends a mirror in front. I also sometimes put it on the side to see how straight and supported my back is. But don't listen to me. Get the DVD's. They're great for working on technique, getting a good workout, and having fun while erging. When you row with the DVD's along with Xeno or Xeno and Lucas, you'll have the right ratio (of time of drive to time of recovery.)<br /><br />Byron

[old] gorow9 · Post by **[old] gorow9** » July 14th, 2005, 11:59 am

As for handle height I've always heard between the nipple and the navel- so I guess that the sternum is fine. I think a good rule of thumb is probably keep it even through the stroke don't pull hard up or down but pull straight and you should be good. If you pull down too far in a boat it's harder to release clean I find.<br /><br />I think that as long as you don't throw your shoulders foreward at the catch to get extra reach you should be fine make sure to do the whole arms body legs/ legs body then arms sequence. Also if you over compress it's harder to get the leg drive in before the shoulders unfold. <br /><br />Also as for the recovery hey the flywheel is still going you'll have a better next stroke if it's longer - not too long... but you also get to breathe.<br /><br />correct me fi I'm wrong at all it's just my opinion<br /><br />Good luck<br />~Sara

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » July 14th, 2005, 4:09 pm

Keep your eyes on the monitor.<br /><br />When the pace is faster that means you are applying more power and the "boat" is running faster as well.

[old] NavigationHazard · Post by **[old] NavigationHazard** » July 14th, 2005, 4:36 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(daveojeda @ Jul 12 2005, 01:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Manda @ Jul 12 2005, 07:32 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>No, it's not "hard" to stop over-compressing. You just need to work at it. As someone above said, use a mirror. Or a coach. You might "feel" like you've shortened your drive - but does the readout confirm it? What you also need to in conjunction, is learn to "let the boat run" at the end of the drive (it works for erg flywheels too). When you rush back up the slide and start the catch too quickly, you will actually brake all the momentum you've just gained. IT WILL SLOW YOU DOWN.<br /><br />As per, most things to do with rowing are actually counter-intuitive. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Could you explain further about letting the ERG run?? I am very interested to here how sowing the recovery will be benificial to your overall time. I thought a more powerful drive and a quick stroke rate were the key to better times. As a newbie this is something that needs clarification.<br /><br />All help is appreciated!! <br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Your momentum has to change at the catch (and at the finish) such that you reverse direction. Leaving aside recoil effects, the faster than necessary that you come up the slide, the more momentum you have to brake so you can push off the other way. I don't think rushing the slide is as bad on an erg as it is in a boat. But it's still creating extra work.<br /><br />When people talk about letting the erg run, they're applying an analogy from OTW rowing. OTW, the shell's momentum under you will tend to return your seat to the catch position at roughly the same pace as boat speed. On an erg, the stretch you put on the bungee cord during the drive will pull the handle back in (and you along with it) in an analgous fashion during the recovery.<br />

[old] daveojeda · Post by **[old] daveojeda** » July 14th, 2005, 5:25 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Byron Drachman @ Jul 13 2005, 04:12 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Could you explain further about letting the ERG run?? </td></tr></table><br /><br />The DVD's with Xeno or Xeno and Lucas illustrate the point nicely. When you start the recovery by first arms forward and then the arms pull the body to a lean forward with the knees still down, you shift your center of gravity forward and you can see the erg start its "run" on the slides. Xeno also recommends a mirror in front. I also sometimes put it on the side to see how straight and supported my back is. But don't listen to me. Get the DVD's. They're great for working on technique, getting a good workout, and having fun while erging. When you row with the DVD's along with Xeno or Xeno and Lucas, you'll have the right ratio (of time of drive to time of recovery.)<br /><br />Byron <br /> </td></tr></table><br />First off thank you for the suggestions! Which dvd of Xeno's are you referring to? At his website there are three, which one would help a new ERG rower the most?<br /><br />

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