Typical differences in split times at different distances

[Big J]

I was wondering what you lot regarded as a normal increase in split time as you progress up through the distances?

That is to say, say I were to record a 1:20 500m (which I nearly did the other day but fluffed up and HDed with 100m to go, like an idiot). Would you then expect to drop say, 6 seconds off your 500m split on a 1000m? And then another 6 seconds off down to 2000m? And so on?

I'm a bit autistic about numbers and like to think about them.

And of course it would be for a typical, all-round type rower rather than someone with a sprint or distance bias.

I'm looking to get my 1:20/500, 2:55/1000 and 6:20/2000 knocked off in the near future and like to have something to aim at, but want to make sure I'm being realistic.

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

J I guess if there is a meaningful relationship here it would be better expressed as % change in Watts rather than seconds per 500m, as the latter means different things based on the denominator of your maths, however I suspect in realty the variation seen in the relationship means that seconds per 500m is a fair proxy.

For some reason I have a figure of 7 seconds stuck in my mind between 2k and 5k PB - and I'm wanting to say I've seen Henry suggest that figure a couple of times (Henry can correct me if I'm wrong here).

Once you have some data points you could play around with the free spirits predictor at https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... -predictor but you do need a couple of initial data points for that obviously.

[Tony Cook]

I was wondering what you lot regarded as a normal increase in split time as you progress up through the distances?

That is to say, say I were to record a 1:20 500m (which I nearly did the other day but fluffed up and HDed with 100m to go, like an idiot). Would you then expect to drop say, 6 seconds off your 500m split on a 1000m? And then another 6 seconds off down to 2000m? And so on?

I'm a bit autistic about numbers and like to think about them.

And of course it would be for a typical, all-round type rower rather than someone with a sprint or distance bias.

I'm looking to get my 1:20/500, 2:55/1000 and 6:20/2000 knocked off in the near future and like to have something to aim at, but want to make sure I'm being realistic.

Paul’s law says add 5 seconds to the split when you double the distance. So if you can do a 1:20 500m you should be able to do 1,000m at 1:25 pace = 2:50, and so then a 2k at 1:30 pace = 6:00.
Of course we are all slightly different.

[MartinSH4321]

...
Paul’s law says add 5 seconds to the split when you double the distance. So if you can do a 1:20 500m you should be able to do 1,000m at 1:25 pace = 2:50, and so then a 2k at 1:30 pace = 6:00.
Of course we are all slightly different.

But Paul excluded the 500m as they don't fit in the formula, propably because it's mainly anaerobic. I would love to pull a 6:05 2k

[Citroen]

...
Paul’s "law" [sic] says add 5 seconds to the split when you double the distance. So if you can do a 1:20 500m you should be able to do 1,000m at 1:25 pace = 2:50, and so then a 2k at 1:30 pace = 6:00.
Of course we are all slightly different.

But Paul excluded the 500m as they don't fit in the formula, propably because it's mainly anaerobic. I would love to pull a 6:05 2k

Paul's "Law" isn't a law, it's a conjecture that a well trained athlete will fit his "double the distance add X" line on a graph.
It's been discussed on here forever. viewtopic.php?t=7708

The use for it is to help you decided whether your next round of training needs to focus on endurance at 5K and above or speed. Anything else crosses the line into the land of the special poetry professor who was banned from here for life. He worshipped Paul's "Law" to the exclusion of being able to win races (and behave with honour).

[jamesg]

normal increase in split time

6-7% speed drop for double distance; so 500/80s: 85-86s 1k and 90-92s 2k. In power terms, around 36% lower Watts between ½ and 2k tests.

There is a page by the French Rowing Federation that predicts a 2k time based on a 500m test, for internationals, with about 10-11% pace loss or 30% Watt loss, implying very good technique and endurance:
http://www.fibrarowingteam.it/2000m%20R ... ration.pdf

[hjs]

I was wondering what you lot regarded as a normal increase in split time as you progress up through the distances?

That is to say, say I were to record a 1:20 500m (which I nearly did the other day but fluffed up and HDed with 100m to go, like an idiot). Would you then expect to drop say, 6 seconds off your 500m split on a 1000m? And then another 6 seconds off down to 2000m? And so on?

I'm a bit autistic about numbers and like to think about them.

And of course it would be for a typical, all-round type rower rather than someone with a sprint or distance bias.

I'm looking to get my 1:20/500, 2:55/1000 and 6:20/2000 knocked off in the near future and like to have something to aim at, but want to make sure I'm being realistic.

Paul’s law says add 5 seconds to the split when you double the distance. So if you can do a 1:20 500m you should be able to do 1,000m at 1:25 pace = 2:50, and so then a 2k at 1:30 pace = 6:00.
Of course we are all slightly different.

Tony, I have known Paul, and this is not true, this was not how pauls law was ment. It was a training tool, not a prediction tool.
And 500m and even 1k was NOT included. Differences should be a good bit bigger.

Very roughly, my ideas about pacing.
500/1000 difference 5/7 seconds, for sprinters even more.
1k/2/ 5/6 seconds
2/5 6/7
5/10 3/4

[winniewinser]

You could try this pace predictor.....

https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... -predictor

I've found it to be reasonably accurate.....try using your 500m and your 30' times.

[Big J]

You could try this pace predictor.....

https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... -predictor

I've found it to be reasonably accurate.....try using your 500m and your 30' times.

That's really interesting, but the times it's predicting for my 2k are a bit frightening!

[hjs]

You could try this pace predictor.....

https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... -predictor

I've found it to be reasonably accurate.....try using your 500m and your 30' times.

That's really interesting, but the times it's predicting for my 2k are a bit frightening!

And wrong

But a general advice. Do NOT set limits. You are improving nicely, see where you get. A 1.20 500 for a guy your age build is really not impressive. Aim higher

[Big J]

You could try this pace predictor.....

https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... -predictor

I've found it to be reasonably accurate.....try using your 500m and your 30' times.

That's really interesting, but the times it's predicting for my 2k are a bit frightening!

And wrong

But a general advice. Do NOT set limits. You are improving nicely, see where you get. A 1.20 500 for a guy your age build is really not impressive. Aim higher

I am planning to! I work to preset number based goals though. It's just the way my mind works. I held 1:16 for 300m on an aborted (at 400m) 500m run, so 1:15 will fall at some point.

When I say frightening, it's only frightening until you do it, and then not so much. I think it's better I have respect for the Erg and it's ability to utterly bollox me in short time

[hjs]

And wrong

But a general advice. Do NOT set limits. You are improving nicely, see where you get. A 1.20 500 for a guy your age build is really not impressive. Aim higher

I am planning to! I work to preset number based goals though. It's just the way my mind works. I held 1:16 for 300m on an aborted (at 400m) 500m run, so 1:15 will fall at some point.

When I say frightening, it's only frightening until you do it, and then not so much. I think it's better I have respect for the Erg and it's ability to utterly bollox me in short time
[/quote]

Fear is a very strong power, the moment you start thinking you got this, it will derail. You need fear..

If you could pull 1.15 over 500. And 35 min over 10, you could start looking at 6.00
Keyword being if.....

[Tony Cook]

Apologies guys, and BigJ in particular, for my ‘little knowledge’ post about ‘Paul’s Law’. It was pretty accurate for my PBs, but, as said, we are all different.

[chrisscott6300]

You could try this pace predictor.....

https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... -predictor

I've found it to be reasonably accurate.....try using your 500m and your 30' times.

That's really interesting, but the times it's predicting for my 2k are a bit frightening!

I clicked on this tool with interest.. it was very optimistic about my 2k as well!

You're obviously going to go a lot faster than 1:20 in the 500m soon. Feeling like you want to put the handle down at around 300-400m is exactly how you should feel if its going well

[winniewinser]

You could try this pace predictor.....

https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... -predictor

I've found it to be reasonably accurate.....try using your 500m and your 30' times.

That's really interesting, but the times it's predicting for my 2k are a bit frightening!

I clicked on this tool with interest.. it was very optimistic about my 2k as well!

You're obviously going to go a lot faster than 1:20 in the 500m soon. Feeling like you want to put the handle down at around 300-400m is exactly how you should feel if its going well

Frightening strength from you big fellas!

I'm guessing that for you big lads it may be weighted more to the low end distances and sprinting.....an area that I am weak at. It does also have a caveat that says 'WARNING: Using 500m times makes the predictions a bit 'hit and miss' with this method.'

Using my 2k and 30' times chucked out some fairly accurate current PB's....it will never predict what big gains can be made with more training though

500m 1:32.2
1,000m 3:17.3
2,000m 6:53.0
5,000m 18:16.8
6,000m 22:12.1
10,000m 38:16.2
30 mins 7958
60 mins 15248