Hello all - very tall newbie here

[Big J]

Hello all. New to the forum and new to the C2.

I have a sports background from when I was much younger, and have done a reasonably physical job for the last 10 years. I've had fairly major lower back issues over that time, but since coming back to weight training in April, they've largely gone.

So I'm Jonathan, aged 36, 6ft 8" (203cm) and 120kg. I'm fairly lean and reasonably strong with the weights training, but I'm only 6-7 months back into that. I did train with weights seriously in my late teens and early 20s and did some amateur strongman comps.

I bought a C2 a few months ago and have been doing a bit on it, now and again, but not really enough. Friends on another forum have been encouraging me to properly push it as they reckon I have the biomechanics to be fairly fast. I did a lot of timetrial cycling as a kid, so I think I still have a good cardiovascular capacity somewhere in there!

Anyway, thus far, my 2-3 hours total on the machine over the last few months have yielded best times of:

500m - 1:26.9
1000m - 3:20.4
2000m - 7:04.8

There is certainly a lot more in all of them. The 500m time was done last night, second session of the day (after doing the 2k time earlier in the day) and after heavy deadlifts.

Anyway, I don't have huge amounts of time on a day to day basis - usual stuff with young family and running my business. Can I meaningfully improve my rowing with 3 x 20-30min sessions a week, alongside the weightlifting? I don't have a heart rate monitor at present.

Any programme suggestions gratefully received.

[John Foy]

Up the Sugden Massive.

[Big J]

Up the Sugden Massive.

Indeed! There is nothing like a bit of well applied peer pressure!!

[MPx]

Welcome Jonathan. Yes clearly huge potential given your size and background. With just three shortish sessions a week you will make good progress and attain very creditable and, to many of us, enviable numbers. But I suspect in reality that isn't enough training to properly realise your potential if you want to be really good rather than just fitter. The erg doesn't lie and there's no short cuts, not even for relatively fit giants. Your numbers are skewed - 500m relatively better than 2k norms, suggesting your aerobic capacity isn't as good as your strength. Rowing is predominantly an aerobic sport unless you specialise in the very short sprints. Pls don't be put off by this. Your numbers are very strong from a cold start and with time and training could be great.

Start by making sure your form is right (watch videos and get someone else to make sure you are actually doing the right things). Then set off on something like the Beginner Pete Plan which was devised to be doable in a lunch hour. Plenty of threads and advice on here if you do a search. Best of luck.

[Tandstad]

Welcome Big J

I would just echo MPx here, your numbers indicate that you are benefiting from your size and strength in the 500 meters(which is quite strong!), but you fall off rather quickly once the sessions gets longer, indicating you need to build a better base. Beginners Pete Plan should be quite safe!

Will be exciting to follow your progression!

[Dangerscouse]

Hello all. New to the forum and new to the C2.

I have a sports background from when I was much younger, and have done a reasonably physical job for the last 10 years. I've had fairly major lower back issues over that time, but since coming back to weight training in April, they've largely gone.

So I'm Jonathan, aged 36, 6ft 8" (203cm) and 120kg. I'm fairly lean and reasonably strong with the weights training, but I'm only 6-7 months back into that. I did train with weights seriously in my late teens and early 20s and did some amateur strongman comps.

I bought a C2 a few months ago and have been doing a bit on it, now and again, but not really enough. Friends on another forum have been encouraging me to properly push it as they reckon I have the biomechanics to be fairly fast. I did a lot of timetrial cycling as a kid, so I think I still have a good cardiovascular capacity somewhere in there!

Anyway, thus far, my 2-3 hours total on the machine over the last few months have yielded best times of:

500m - 1:26.9
1000m - 3:20.4
2000m - 7:04.8

There is certainly a lot more in all of them. The 500m time was done last night, second session of the day (after doing the 2k time earlier in the day) and after heavy deadlifts.

Anyway, I don't have huge amounts of time on a day to day basis - usual stuff with young family and running my business. Can I meaningfully improve my rowing with 3 x 20-30min sessions a week, alongside the weightlifting? I don't have a heart rate monitor at present.

Any programme suggestions gratefully received.

Welcome to the forum, I agree with Mike: you will inevitably make progress, and possibly very good progress, but it won't be at your full potential. I guess the most important question is, what do you consider "meaningful progress"?

If you really want to maximise your performances, I'd suggest that you need to drop the weights and row longer, and more often. Generally speaking, and I say that as not every strategy works for everyone, doing more metres is always a good idea. I have definitely seen notable improvements, across a lot of distances, since increasing my weekly metres from circa 50k to circa 80k

[winniewinser]

Welcome Very Big J!

You're certainly built for it and I'm sure you'll make fast progress......sub 7' 2Km is surely not far away for sure.

Cheers
Alex

[Dino]

Welcome... those results on only "...2-3 hours total on the machine over the last few months..." are very good.
Time will always be a factor and you may have to think about your routine in order to get some more erging in, e.g. squeeze an early morning session in etc. I suspect weight training is not something you want to give up, but depending on how many sessions a week you do now, then 2 a week should keep your hand in on the weights and also benefit your rowing. You may also want to tailor your weights to a more rowing focus workout. This is a presentation on strength and conditioning you may find useful. Professional rowers generally do only a couple of weights sessions a week during the rowing season, rising during the off season (alongside the 100-200km a week that is on water/erg!)
The beginner pete plan may give you some useful pointers, or the 5k pete plan or which there is a light version with reduced sessions per week. A lot of people have followed / are following these plans on the forum and will be able to advise. There are whole threads on this plan you can jump on. Putting in the mileage will get results but you have to juggle this with everything else going on in your life. I would try to get in at least one distance session a week (10k+) regardless fitting it in early or (as I do) late in the evening when all other duties are done for the day. As you have your own you C2 can be flexible how you do this.
Good luck!

[Big J]

Thanks for the warm welcome folks

The weightlifting has been really beneficial for me over the course of summer. My back had been getting worse and worse over the winter, to the point where I had days I was struggling to walk in March and April.

I'm honestly surprised at the extent to which it's recovered and that I can now straight bar deadlift and row without discomfort (most of the time).

The times I've done so far are a bit skewed as I've only actually tried 1000m and 2000m on two different occasions. I've had a few more goes at 500m. I should have 1:22 in me at the moment as my 1:26.9 was done after heavy deadlifting. Who knows though.

I don't want to give up the weights, but I'm happy to drop down to 3 times a week. I don't really want to get much heavier than 120kg, but I'd like to change my body composition to reduce my bodyfat.

I also want to get much fitter, which is where the rowing comes in.

I had thought to row 3 times a week with a day for 1k, a day for 2k and a day for 5k. Maybe 6 repetitions of 1k, 3 or 2k and 2 of 5k.

As regards goal - would a 1:15 500m, sub 3 min 1000m and a sub 6:30 2000m sound realistic? I think my strength will be in short distance, at least in the short term.

I have watched a few rowing technique videos and they are very helpful.

[Tandstad]

Thanks for the warm welcome folks

The weightlifting has been really beneficial for me over the course of summer. My back had been getting worse and worse over the winter, to the point where I had days I was struggling to walk in March and April.

I'm honestly surprised at the extent to which it's recovered and that I can now straight bar deadlift and row without discomfort (most of the time).

The times I've done so far are a bit skewed as I've only actually tried 1000m and 2000m on two different occasions. I've had a few more goes at 500m. I should have 1:22 in me at the moment as my 1:26.9 was done after heavy deadlifting. Who knows though.

I don't want to give up the weights, but I'm happy to drop down to 3 times a week. I don't really want to get much heavier than 120kg, but I'd like to change my body composition to reduce my bodyfat.

I also want to get much fitter, which is where the rowing comes in.

I had thought to row 3 times a week with a day for 1k, a day for 2k and a day for 5k. Maybe 6 repetitions of 1k, 3 or 2k and 2 of 5k.

As regards goal - would a 1:15 500m, sub 3 min 1000m and a sub 6:30 2000m sound realistic? I think my strength will be in short distance, at least in the short term.

I have watched a few rowing technique videos and they are very helpful.

A sub 3 1k and a sub 6:30 2k should definitely be possible. I would say a sub 1:15 500 is very high level. We have some very fast guys in here(Martin being one of them) who is still working towards the sub 1:20. You definitely have the build to be able to go very fast, but breaking 1:15 will require some hard work I assume hard to know your full potential from only the three times you have posted.

[Big J]

Thanks for the warm welcome folks

The weightlifting has been really beneficial for me over the course of summer. My back had been getting worse and worse over the winter, to the point where I had days I was struggling to walk in March and April.

I'm honestly surprised at the extent to which it's recovered and that I can now straight bar deadlift and row without discomfort (most of the time).

The times I've done so far are a bit skewed as I've only actually tried 1000m and 2000m on two different occasions. I've had a few more goes at 500m. I should have 1:22 in me at the moment as my 1:26.9 was done after heavy deadlifting. Who knows though.

I don't want to give up the weights, but I'm happy to drop down to 3 times a week. I don't really want to get much heavier than 120kg, but I'd like to change my body composition to reduce my bodyfat.

I also want to get much fitter, which is where the rowing comes in.

I had thought to row 3 times a week with a day for 1k, a day for 2k and a day for 5k. Maybe 6 repetitions of 1k, 3 or 2k and 2 of 5k.

As regards goal - would a 1:15 500m, sub 3 min 1000m and a sub 6:30 2000m sound realistic? I think my strength will be in short distance, at least in the short term.

I have watched a few rowing technique videos and they are very helpful.

A sub 3 1k and a sub 6:30 2k should definitely be possible. I would say a sub 1:15 500 is very high level. We have some very fast guys in here(Martin being one of them) who is still working towards the sub 1:20. You definitely have the build to be able to go very fast, but breaking 1:15 will require some hard work I assume hard to know your full potential from only the three times you have posted.

Very true! It's hard to get an inclination of what potential I may have from the 3 hrs of actual rowing I've done! It's like asking someone who's just passed their driving test if they think they might be any good at F1!

Time will tell. I'll endeavour to start with 3 sessions a week on the C2 and see after a month or two where it gets me. I can then at that point make a decision as to whether to adjust my weightlifting to accommodate more rowing.

I don't know if it has any relevance but I train with my brother, who is still fairly tall (6ft 2") but of a heavier set build than me. He's a little stronger than I am statically (on account of training for 17 years) and fitter too (he does a lot of circuits). He incorporates rowing into a lot of his conditioning work, but is a fair bit slower than I am and makes it look more strenuous too. I don't know if it's because he's only ever thought about it as a conditioning tool, rather than an exercise in it's own right, or whether it's the fact that his ROM is much shorter than mine.

Regardless, waffling on, speculating about potential won't get me faster so I'll knuckle down and get some rowing done

[hjs]

Thanks for the warm welcome folks

The weightlifting has been really beneficial for me over the course of summer. My back had been getting worse and worse over the winter, to the point where I had days I was struggling to walk in March and April.

I'm honestly surprised at the extent to which it's recovered and that I can now straight bar deadlift and row without discomfort (most of the time).

The times I've done so far are a bit skewed as I've only actually tried 1000m and 2000m on two different occasions. I've had a few more goes at 500m. I should have 1:22 in me at the moment as my 1:26.9 was done after heavy deadlifting. Who knows though.

I don't want to give up the weights, but I'm happy to drop down to 3 times a week. I don't really want to get much heavier than 120kg, but I'd like to change my body composition to reduce my bodyfat.

I also want to get much fitter, which is where the rowing comes in.

I had thought to row 3 times a week with a day for 1k, a day for 2k and a day for 5k. Maybe 6 repetitions of 1k, 3 or 2k and 2 of 5k.

As regards goal - would a 1:15 500m, sub 3 min 1000m and a sub 6:30 2000m sound realistic? I think my strength will be in short distance, at least in the short term.

I have watched a few rowing technique videos and they are very helpful.

Re Goals, yes and no.

6.30 and sub 3 are in line. 1,15 is a different beast.

The difference between a 500 and 1k is roughly 6/8 seconds. For a pure sprinter it could be more. But 1.15 would be certainly 2.50 on the 1k.

You being tall and heavy is a big plus. Don’t know how strong your deadlift is, but that alone is a good basis to row a fast 500.
If you plan is to keep doing heavy weights, squat, deadlift, rows, you could do 3 relative easy longer rowing sessions. That way you can keep your strenght and power and at the same increese your aerobic fitness.
Think in the line of, 3 sessions a week.
Once a 20 min straight.
Once a 3x1500 rest 5 min.
Once 5x1k rest 3/4 min.

Don’t push does sessions. This alone will build you rowing fitness and will help a lot. After 6 weeks, test your 500, 1k and 2k. I expect them to be a lot faster. Do those tests fresh, so you get a fair outcome.

After a first 6 weeks, you could look further.

Remember, most people here will give you rowing advice, and say do more, do longer, but for your goals and time restrictions that is not needed.

[Big J]

Thanks for the warm welcome folks

The weightlifting has been really beneficial for me over the course of summer. My back had been getting worse and worse over the winter, to the point where I had days I was struggling to walk in March and April.

I'm honestly surprised at the extent to which it's recovered and that I can now straight bar deadlift and row without discomfort (most of the time).

The times I've done so far are a bit skewed as I've only actually tried 1000m and 2000m on two different occasions. I've had a few more goes at 500m. I should have 1:22 in me at the moment as my 1:26.9 was done after heavy deadlifting. Who knows though.

I don't want to give up the weights, but I'm happy to drop down to 3 times a week. I don't really want to get much heavier than 120kg, but I'd like to change my body composition to reduce my bodyfat.

I also want to get much fitter, which is where the rowing comes in.

I had thought to row 3 times a week with a day for 1k, a day for 2k and a day for 5k. Maybe 6 repetitions of 1k, 3 or 2k and 2 of 5k.

As regards goal - would a 1:15 500m, sub 3 min 1000m and a sub 6:30 2000m sound realistic? I think my strength will be in short distance, at least in the short term.

I have watched a few rowing technique videos and they are very helpful.

Re Goals, yes and no.

6.30 and sub 3 are in line. 1,15 is a different beast.

The difference between a 500 and 1k is roughly 6/8 seconds. For a pure sprinter it could be more. But 1.15 would be certainly 2.50 on the 1k.

You being tall and heavy is a big plus. Don’t know how strong your deadlift is, but that alone is a good basis to row a fast 500.
If you plan is to keep doing heavy weights, squat, deadlift, rows, you could do 3 relative easy longer rowing sessions. That way you can keep your strenght and power and at the same increese your aerobic fitness.
Think in the line of, 3 sessions a week.
Once a 20 min straight.
Once a 3x1500 rest 5 min.
Once 5x1k rest 3/4 min.

Don’t push does sessions. This alone will build you rowing fitness and will help a lot. After 6 weeks, test your 500, 1k and 2k. I expect them to be a lot faster. Do those tests fresh, so you get a fair outcome.

After a first 6 weeks, you could look further.

Remember, most people here will give you rowing advice, and say do more, do longer, but for your goals and time restrictions that is not needed.

The 1:15 goal may be unrealistic. The rowing table on Sugden Barbell has a couple of guys at or just beyond that level, but being a forum for strength athletes, I guess there will always be a bias towards faster times for shorter distances.

Really useful advice on the training side of things, and I'll do just what you suggested. Many thanks for your advice

[hjs]

Welcome.

Don’t know if 1.15 is unrealistic, only say its out of wack with the other 2. And 1.15 is pretty rare. While 6.30 and 3.00 are solid, but relative doable. 6.30 being the “easiest”
Would say 1.15 is more like 6.00 if I had to make a comparison.

Training for shorter work and 2k and above is very different. Very simply put, for the shorter stuff you are never strong enough, and for the longer work never fit enough.

Trainingwise, strenght nmr1 for sprints/weights. Aerobic fitness for 2k and above./long aerobic sessions. Think volume.

[Dangerscouse]

The 1:15 goal may be unrealistic. The rowing table on Sugden Barbell has a couple of guys at or just beyond that level, but being a forum for strength athletes, I guess there will always be a bias towards faster times for shorter distances.

Have these been verified results on a Concept 2? The WR is 1:10.5, and it's 1:13.7 for age 40-49 so I'm not saying it's impossible, but if they aren't focusing on rowing I'd say that it probably doesn't pass the 'smell test'.

For context, out of 4104 people, of all age groups, who ranked a 500m last rowing season, there were only six men who went sub 1:15