Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Topics relating to online racing and training with 3rd party software.
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CJOttawa
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Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by CJOttawa » October 12th, 2020, 2:06 pm

Not much else to say other than "Oh no! Anyway..." as I cancel my Zwift subscription.

It may not be the same as Zwift but there are a bunch of connected apps I'll be trying over winter:
  • KREW (Android) - guided workouts, auto-programs the PM5, free, subscription service adds audio feedback and a few other features, syncs with Concept2 online logbook.
  • ASensei (iOS) - similar to KREW, syncs with Concept2 online logbook.
  • Regatta (iOS) - subscription service that seems like an alternative to closed ecosystems like Peloton or iFit, syncs with Concept2 online logbook.
  • ErgZone (Android, iOS), syncs with Concept2 online logbook.
  • Kinomap - actual video footage of rows. (Android, iOS) - can be cast to a big screen or used on a tablet or smartphone.
  • CityRow Go - direct PM5 support "coming soon" as of September 2020 but you can still row along with the classes and manually enter your data after.
  • The EXR Game is beta-only right now but is Zwift-ish.
Concept2's own app page lists most of the above, and many others: https://www.concept2.com/service/software/apps

Someone on Reddit did a review of several "fitness class" type rowing apps, here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Rowing/comment ... ions_here/

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Carl Watts
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Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Carl Watts » October 12th, 2020, 5:27 pm

Really the only alternative to Zwift is RowPro.

There is a bunch of other stuff available but if you want to row live online with other people from around the world, there is little to choose from.

Just a real shame. The only major hurdle was to get the PM5 on the Erg working with the existing Zwift software. Should have had this done years ago.

Was looking forward to the graphics and potentially many, many more users online.
Carl Watts.
Age:56 Weight: 108kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

SirJazz
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Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by SirJazz » October 23rd, 2020, 10:15 am

I just got a EXR beta key this week, but came home just today... Im going to check it out later. They say they want to make it online next year... we will see.

Dino
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Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Dino » October 29th, 2020, 6:45 pm

As a shortcut, Zwift could have just implemented a rowcycle!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG05pEW9WhY

This looks like fun :D
56M HWT
50+PB 1m 326m, 500m 1:38,7, 1k 3:31.6, 2k 7:16.8, 5k 19:06.6, 6k 23:26.0, 30m 7730m, 10k 39:26.1, 60m 15025m, HM 1:25:04.7, FM 2:59:26.0, 50k 3:49:17.3, 34.2k OTW 3:52:57
A long way away from any of these PBs now!!

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Carl Watts
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Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Carl Watts » October 29th, 2020, 11:59 pm

Looks like fun but it shows you how slow and inefficient rowing is for the body.

Slow and thats on the flat, cannot imagine trying to go up a hill, may in fact get impossible above a half decent incline due to the intermittent nature of the power delivery, probably need a large flywheel for some rotational inertia and then you have to drag that mass up hills. Yeah I don't think its going to take off.

Zwift could have easily stuck with the standard cyclist graphics and just changed the clothing to let other cyclists know your a rower, doubled your rower power and converted it to road speed using automatic gear changes, and separated the results. Job done and then worry about a full rowing package IF you get enough new "Concept 2 cyclists". Don't dick about developing something for years and then not even release it.

If you have the personality of someone that likes to "Group" ride which seems common in cyclists but non existent in rowers then all your interested in is joining a large group of like minded people online. The dynamics that exist even in RowPro between 2 or 3 rowers and having all 16 lanes full is incomparable.
Carl Watts.
Age:56 Weight: 108kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

RoidbotPR
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Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by RoidbotPR » December 30th, 2020, 5:05 pm

m06w41 wrote:
August 4th, 2020, 12:36 pm
RoidbotPR wrote:
May 24th, 2019, 1:34 pm
You can get it for free on deltarower.com. Drone shots, rowing under bridges. You can do that today. It doesn't have multiplayer. You already have the necessary hardware. All you need to do is download it and go. There is no hidden fees because there are no fees. Does Zwift offer that to you? How much have you spent on RowPro again?
Out of curiousity, is the deltarower app available anywhere? Can't seem to get to any downloadable windows program and this piqued my curiosity.
Sorry, late to reply.

I let the URL lapse due to lack of interest in the software. I have the downloadable file, I just need a way of getting it to you, if you are still interested.

As far as any rowing software coming, I wouldn't hold my breath. Zwift had layoffs in March. Then in the summer they said it was "weeks away", and then just last month said this:

Eric Min: “We are prioritizing the core cycling product at this minute. Rowing will come in the future but not at the expense of what the community values most – the core cycling experience.”

EXR is going to just be another version of a little guy rowing down the river, and as someone who spent two years of his life writing software to make a little guy row down a river...it's just not that interesting. Even if there were multiplayer aspects (which I had, but it cost too much money to run the server), it doesn't hold interest like a podcast or music.

A rowing machine is NOT a stationary bike. A bike you are sitting (mostly) on, and therefore is perfect for Peleton. The market doesn't lie, there are 3 million subscribers. With rowing, you are going back and forth, so making a phone app means you now have to divide what the PM spits out (the numbers, which are the most important) with other little guys rowing down the river...on a tiny screen. It's not going to happen. The screen moves back and forth as you row, the rower is too loud to have Zoom conversations. It just doesn't translate.

Even with a 40 inch TV directly in front of me, watching the scenery go by as I rowed just simply didn't hold my interest. I doubt seeing Carl rowing besides me is going to make the chore of erging any more enjoyable.

Sorry, but a JRE podcast on Youtube is free, no subscription (unless you count Spotify). I severely doubt anyone that plunked down $1k to avoid paying a gym membership fee is then going to part with $15-30 per month just to be motivated. The motivation comes from within.

It would make more sense for someone like Darkhorse rowing to get 10 other rowing instructors together, and blow up their youtube channel with people doing live rowing. Just have someone reach out to Shane and you're set.

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Carl Watts
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Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Carl Watts » December 30th, 2020, 6:07 pm

RowPro is the only current option for online rowing.

It works for certain individuals, you need to find a core group of dedicated people to join you. Where a weakness exists and its always going to exist is TIMEZONE so its all about the number of people in your part of the world that are available either before of after work. The reality is its a narrow timeslot for most people and here in New Zealand its not good time zone for the rest of the world and relies heavily on really early morning rowers in Europe. Yeah early morning rows work when your young but the numbers online prove that over 40's simply don't like it and you only get about 25% of the number you would for an after work row.

RowPro is great but the problem with it like all other packages that have tried to replicate it is the lack of resources put into it trying to keep up with ever faster changes in technology. Clearly people totally underestimate what it takes to get a server up and running in one location in the world and to get a reliable connection to row. For Digital rowing this software was more of a "Hobby" than a business venture. Pretty sure had they not been into rowing personally it would have never happened in the first place.

There are some changes coming for RowPro, sure these changes should have happened 5 years ago with the release of the PM5 but it is what it is. As stated above the motivation comes from within, if you want to row online with others you make it happen and not keep making excuses.

RowPro works for me with only a 32" TV. Its not about just the rowing at the end of the day, its a reflection of several traits in your personality that you either like it or you don't.
Carl Watts.
Age:56 Weight: 108kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

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