What Strength Training Have You Done Today

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » April 29th, 2005, 11:18 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Yoda1 @ Apr 28 2005, 06:10 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>After all the discussion about "Crossfit" I was thinking why does it have to be just two exercises with time. Why not 4 exercises or maybe 6 exercises worked without rest other than to go from one to the next. So, I decided to give it a go. Because time between exercises was important I needed a piece of equipment that would allow me that latitude. I decided that the Total Trainer would work best. For those that don't know what that is, it is a piece of equipment that is similiar to the Total Gym. It has a lot more flexability though. Steeper angles and more choices of levels. Now, before I go any further please keep in mind that I have still not been released from the surgeon that replaced both my shoulders, so I had to take it a little easy with regard to resistance. Overall I would say the average resistance through all of the exercises was about 50% of body weight. So, somewhere around 75-80 pounds. The goal was to do 8-12 reps in each set. Each exercise was to be done for 8 sets. There was to be no rest between exercises other than any adustments that needed to be made. Basicly, this meant doing each set for 20 seconds, then 10 seconds rest, then the next set. Each exercise would take approximately 4 minutes. I had just come back from my morning hike up the mountain with Molly (our Black Lab) so the lower body was pretty well warmed up. First thing was about 10 minuted on the ERG, then 5 minutes on the handcycle. I am now fairly well warmed up. Okay, here are the exercises and the sequence that they were done in after the warmup. Swiss Ball Crunch-made 4 minutes, but did 12 reps in each set. Seated Bench Press-only made 6 sets here--3 minutes. Seated Rowing-made all 4 minutes. Straight Arm Pullover-only made 3 minutes here. Could only do 6 reps per set because of the range of motion. Lying Reverse Chin-made all 4 minutes here. Squat-went to the highest level plus add 4 resistance cords-still to light-had no problem making the 4 minutes here. If I hadn't loaned my leg press to a friend, I would have done that instead of the Squat. Overall total time--25.5 minutes Actual Work time (not including warmup)--22 minutes. How did it feel? I was breathing like a steam engine. Since I am used to Super Slow the most noticeable thing was the pump. The burning sensations (lacitic acid)that I felt was no big deal. I was used to that from SS. Is it worth doing again? Yes, I think it is. Heart rate jumped up pretty quick and stayed up throughout the workout. One of the reasons I chose the Total Trainer was because of the safety factor. I didn't need a spotter. And if I got into trouble, I was able to stop without having to worry about being squashed. Just thought I'd pass this little tidbit on. Any comments are welcomed with suggestions or questions. There is just no yelling. Mumbling is okay. Yoda </td></tr></table> Yoda, that is an awesome accomplishment. It has a good deal in common with one of the Crossfit workouts called "Tabata This." In furtherance of general knowledge and civil discussion, here is a link to the trial version of the "Crossfit Journal," which lays out the theories behind the Crossfit practices. <a href='http://www.crossfit.com/cf-download/CFJ-trial.pdf' target='_blank'>Crossfit Journal</a> It seems to me that, rather than bicker about whether a certain workout or exercise "makes sense" viewed in isolation, what we ought to be discussing is the big picture issue, i.e., whether the program as a whole "makes sense." Personally, I find this explanation rather persuasive. Porkchop

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » April 29th, 2005, 3:23 pm

Porkchop, I tried several times to download "Crossfit Jounral" but for some reason I couldn't get it done. I went to their site and tried there but had the same effect. I'm up for the discussion. Don't care to bicker. Too old for that. Just lay it out there and let's talk. I'm sure there will be others that will want to interject, as well. The ball's in your court. No big words. No Yelling. Just some mumbling. Yoda

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » April 29th, 2005, 4:09 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Yoda1 @ Apr 29 2005, 02:23 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Porkchop, I tried several times to download "Crossfit Jounral" but for some reason I couldn't get it done. I went to their site and tried there but had the same effect. I'm up for the discussion. Don't care to bicker. Too old for that. Just lay it out there and let's talk. I'm sure there will be others that will want to interject, as well. The ball's in your court. No big words. No Yelling. Just some mumbling. Yoda </td></tr></table> Well, it's rather a long document, in PDF, so I don't think our moderator would really appreciate my posting the entire thing here. I just went back there (http://www.crossfit.com/cf-download/CFJ-trial.pdf) again and had no problem loading the document. Do you have the latest version of Adobe Acrobat? Perhaps your browser settings are preventing the download? Here are a few snippets: There are three models or "standards" of "fitness" used in the program. [Begin quotation] Crossfit’s First Fitness Standard There are ten recognized general physical skills. They are cardiovascular/respiratory endurance, stamina, strength, flexibility, power, coordination, agility, balance, and accuracy. (See “General Physical Skills”, [below], for definitions.) You are as fit as you are competent in each of these ten skills. A regimen develops fitness to the extent that it improves each of these ten skills. Importantly, improvements in endurance, stamina, strength, and flexibility come about through training. Training refers to activity that improves performance through a measurable organic change in the body. By contrast improvements in coordination, agility, balance, and accuracy come about through practice. Practice refers to activity that improves performance through changes in the nervous system. Power and speed are adaptations of both training and practice. Crossfit’s Second Fitness Standard The essence of this model is the view that fitness is about performing well at any and every task imaginable. Picture a hopper loaded with an infinite number of physical challenges where no selective mechanism is operative, and being asked to perform fetes randomly drawn from the hopper. This model suggests that your fitness can be measured by your capacity to perform well at these tasks in relation to other individuals. The implication here is that fitness requires an ability to perform well at all tasks, even unfamiliar tasks, tasks combined in infinitely varying combinations. In practice this encourages the athlete to disinvest in any set notions of sets, rest periods, reps, exercises, order of exercises, routines, periodization, etc. Nature frequently provides largely unforeseeable challenges; train for that by striving to keep the training stimulus broad and constantly varied. Crossfit’s Third Fitness Standard There are three metabolic pathways that provide the energy for all human action. These “metabolic engines” are known as the phosphagen pathway, the glycolytic pathway, and the oxidative pathway. The first, the phosphagen, dominates the highest-powered activities, those that last less than about ten seconds. The second pathway, the glycolytic, dominates moderate-powered activities, those that last up to several minutes. The third pathway, the oxidative, dominates low-powered activities, those that last in excess of several minutes. Here’s an excellent reference for additional information: <a href='http://predator.pnb.uconn.edu/beta/virt ... uscle.html' target='_blank'>http://predator.pnb.uconn.edu/beta/virt ... le.html</a> Total fitness, the fitness that CrossFit promotes and develops, requires competency and training in each of these three pathways or engines. Balancing the effects of these three pathways largely determines the how and why of the metabolic conditioning or “cardio” that we do at CrossFit. Favoring one or two to the exclusion of the others and not recognizing the impact of excessive training in the oxidative pathway are arguably the two most common faults in fitness training. * * * GENERAL PHYSICAL SKILLS [Defined] If your goal is optimum physical competence then all the general physical skills must be considered: 1. Cardiovascular/respiratory endurance - The ability of body systems to gather, process, and deliver oxygen. 2. Stamina - The ability of body systems to process, deliver, store, and utilize energy. 3. Strength - The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply force. 4. Flexibility - the ability to maximize the range of motion at a given joint. 5. Power - The ability of a muscular unit, or combination of muscular units, to apply maximum force in minimum time. 6. Speed - The ability to minimize the time cycle of a repeated movement. 7. Coordination - The ability to combine several distinct movement patterns into a singular distinct movement. 8. Agility - The ability to minimize transition time from one movement pattern to another. 9. Balance - The ability to control the placement of the bodies center of gravity in relation to its support base. 10. Accuracy - The ability to control movement in a given direction or at a given intensity. [End quotation] Yoda, I find little to argue with in this general approach to fitness. The implementation of these theories appears to involve the use of a large number of highly varied workouts, challenging different combinations of physical skills every workout. If the goal is to be "ready for anything" this appears to be a rational protocol, even though some might question the sanity of those who do it regularly. Now, I've probably taxed our moderator's patience enough with a post of this length. Porkchop

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » April 29th, 2005, 5:17 pm

I've read some more on the bench mark excercises on cross fit. They do seem like fun...but there doesn't seem to be any benchmark to challenge the strength of the legs? Of course, doing so over extended time would make the oxygen consumption too large for any non world class endurance athlete. Still nice bench mark excercises, but heavy squatting or similar seems to be lacking for total fitness according to their own definition? Sorry, I might have missed something on the site, but leg strength seems at glance a bit neglected in comparison to upperbody strength. But only in comparison though, since the bench mark events are excellent in terms of upper body strength (and endurance). Must say I am quite tempted to try one of the benchmarks some time! Say...Tabata This 75 points within a year.

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » April 29th, 2005, 6:03 pm

Porkchop, Hey, thanks for helping me out. I don't know what's wrong with this damn computer other than the operator. I agree with everything that is listed. Here's where I have a problem. Having spent most of my life around fitness, mostly resistance training, I know the damage that can be brought about with iron. Especially free weights. I know what it like to be pinned under a bar, to exhausted to move it, and no around to help. Having said that, I think that if a program such as Crossfit's is to be used, it needs to be done on equipment that allows a person some regard for their safety. That's why I chose the Total Trainer when I did my little workout yesterday. I'm not saying that this is the ultimate peice of equipment. It isn't. But it was safe. I visualize myself at age 18 and having someone tell me that I couldn't do some of the exercises or combination of exercises listed on Crossfit's list. There is no way I could have NOT attempted them. I was a mental case when I was that young. To me, their program could be absolutely the greatest known to man, if only it were accomplished without the seemingly disregard for the safety factor. Exercises that use bodyweight only mixed with endurance work would be great in my mind. Example; Warmup, sprint 100 meters, do 25 pushups, sprint 200 meters, do 15 pullups, try to sprint 400 meters, do 25 crunches. Dial 911 for help. This seems to be a better way to go. I have often thought that a good challenge would be to cycle 10 miles, row 5K, run 5K, and repeat 3 times for time. Do you see where I'm coming from? On an other note: I read this today. How to check out your core strength. Get in the plank position. Hold to 1 minute, lift left arm-hold for 15 sec., lift right arm-hold for 15 sec., lift left leg-hold for 15 seconds, lift right leg-hold for 15 sec., lift left arm and right leg-hold for 15 sec., lift right arm and left leg-hold for 15 seconds, return to original plank position and hold for 1 minute. I tried and performed the world's greatest face plant when the left arm and right leg were lifted. Couldn't do it. Ahhhhh!!!! Yoda

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » April 29th, 2005, 6:22 pm

Yoda, What do you reckon concerning the Tabata This described on the crossfit ste? Only your own body for resistance, and an erg. All seems safe, and a 20 min high heart rate excercise for the whole body.

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » April 29th, 2005, 8:22 pm

Carl, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking me. I have not seen Tabata This. Please fill me in. Yoda

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » April 29th, 2005, 8:49 pm

Yesterday: 5 sets of 20 various push-ups (throughout the day). 30 minute burner on the trainer (HR avg 163). Today: 15 pull ups 30 minutes of fartlek on the trainer (HR avg 155). I really like doing bodyweight squats after the riding since I seem to lessen the instant burn effect of doing these without a warm up. Today I did 200 in less than 6:00 and could have gone on I'm sure. I'm glad I stopped though as my legs got very tight after the session.

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » April 29th, 2005, 9:38 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Yoda1 @ Apr 29 2005, 05:03 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Porkchop, Hey, thanks for helping me out. I don't know what's wrong with this damn computer other than the operator. I agree with everything that is listed. Here's where I have a problem. Having spent most of my life around fitness, mostly resistance training, I know the damage that can be brought about with iron. Especially free weights. I know what it like to be pinned under a bar, to exhausted to move it, and no around to help. Having said that, I think that if a program such as Crossfit's is to be used, it needs to be done on equipment that allows a person some regard for their safety. That's why I chose the Total Trainer when I did my little workout yesterday. I'm not saying that this is the ultimate peice of equipment. It isn't. But it was safe. I visualize myself at age 18 and having someone tell me that I couldn't do some of the exercises or combination of exercises listed on Crossfit's list. There is no way I could have NOT attempted them. I was a mental case when I was that young. To me, their program could be absolutely the greatest known to man, if only it were accomplished without the seemingly disregard for the safety factor. Exercises that use bodyweight only mixed with endurance work would be great in my mind. Example; Warmup, sprint 100 meters, do 25 pushups, sprint 200 meters, do 15 pullups, try to sprint 400 meters, do 25 crunches. Dial 911 for help. This seems to be a better way to go. I have often thought that a good challenge would be to cycle 10 miles, row 5K, run 5K, and repeat 3 times for time. Do you see where I'm coming from? </td></tr></table> Well, it all depends on what you look at as unsafe. They don't seem to prescribe many exercises that would meet your description. I haven't seen any bench presses at any weight. Some back squats, but not at anything approaching maximal weights. The only lifts that seem to come close to maxing out are deadlifts. The rest of the movements use limited prescribed weights or scaled to the ability of the user. So I don't see the problem. Porkchop

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » April 29th, 2005, 10:33 pm

Porkchop, Maybe I'm missing something here. When I go into their site and click on the exercises, are these the exercises that you are talking about? Or is there another area within their site that I need to look at? Yoda

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » April 29th, 2005, 11:20 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Yoda1 @ Apr 29 2005, 09:33 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Porkchop, Maybe I'm missing something here. When I go into their site and click on the exercises, are these the exercises that you are talking about? Or is there another area within their site that I need to look at? Yoda </td></tr></table> Well, yes, you may be missing something. The unique aspect of the program is not so much the exercises as the way they are combined. Things like "Wallball" and "Hooverball" are somewhat unusual, I suppose, but most of the components of their protocols are fairly commonplace. Probably the first thing to do is to look at the FAQ (look on the right side under "Friends of Crossfit"). You could also take a look at the "Workout of the Day." They have years' of workouts in the archives. Part of the charm, if you will, of the program is that one never knows what one is going to be doing until the day before one does it (if one were following the program strictly). Some people apparently lag a week, a month, whatever; others follow the program strictly and get a daily surprise. There seems to be a method to their madness. If you want to get a sense of what they do, scroll through some past WOD's, and look at the comments the various users post. By the way, let me correct an earlier statement, there are a few instances in which the bench press is prescribed. It does not seem to be a common exercise, though. Porkchop

[old] JaneW. · Post by **[old] JaneW.** » April 30th, 2005, 2:17 am

Yoda, Please remember you're still healing. Please tell me you're going to take it easy, big guy. I have no comments but only care about your well being. Don't make me worry okay? Tonight weights - chest, pushups, 4sets of pullups, dips

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » April 30th, 2005, 2:41 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Yoda1 @ Apr 30 2005, 12:22 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Carl, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking me. I have not seen Tabata This. Please fill me in. Yoda </td></tr></table> Yoda, Since you were putting out you thoughts on their program I figured you had seen this part of it. I am interested what you think of it since my opinion on this benchmark that I "extracted" is contrary to what you said in general of the program and you have a lot of experience. Here's a link to the Tabata This in the crossfit FAQ. The FAQ also explains alot of other movements they do, some with videos. <a href='http://www.mitymous.net/weights/xfitfaq.htm#28' target='_blank'>http://www.mitymous.net/weights/xfitfaq.htm#28</a> Tabata This includes erging, "air sqats" (no bar, no lower than parallell), and the following excercises performed in no special manner: push ups, sit ups , pull ups. with "in not special manner" I mean you may choose your grip for pull ups for example. All excercises you do for 8 x(20sec, 10sec rest) and an extra 50s rest after the last interval (total 1 minute) and then begin with the next excercise.

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » April 30th, 2005, 1:03 pm

Porkchop and Carl, Thanks for your patience. Sometimes my gray matter seems to have turned to black. I looked at FAQ and now see what you guys have been talking about. Duh!!! I was under the impression that their program was made up of the exercises listed under exercises. Sorry about that. In FAQ there were still lifts-clean and jerk, thrusters, etc. with free weights listed as part of the daily workouts. This is where my problem lies. Other than that I think what I saw was definitely worth a go. I liked the idea of a daily surprise. And none of what they were showing would take that much time in a day. I couldn't believe how close I came to their program with the one I made up off the top of my head. (Which I am sore from today) I can tell you this, I am going to stay with the program I tried the other day, but not daily. Maybe every other day or perhaps with 2 days separating the program. As Jane reminded me, I have still have to take it slow for a while. I was surprised to see that they suggested a one minute rest between exercises. I think it should be no-stop. Are you guys thinking about joining this group? I hope we're all on the same page now. Sometimes it's hard to get through to this old guys head. Yoda

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » April 30th, 2005, 3:43 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Yoda1 @ Apr 30 2005, 12:03 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Porkchop and Carl, Thanks for your patience. Sometimes my gray matter seems to have turned to black. I looked at FAQ and now see what you guys have been talking about. Duh!!! I was under the impression that their program was made up of the exercises listed under exercises. Sorry about that. In FAQ there were still lifts-clean and jerk, thrusters, etc. with free weights listed as part of the daily workouts. This is where my problem lies. Other than that I think what I saw was definitely worth a go. I liked the idea of a daily surprise. And none of what they were showing would take that much time in a day. I couldn't believe how close I came to their program with the one I made up off the top of my head. (Which I am sore from today) I can tell you this, I am going to stay with the program I tried the other day, but not daily. Maybe every other day or perhaps with 2 days separating the program. As Jane reminded me, I have still have to take it slow for a while. I was surprised to see that they suggested a one minute rest between exercises. I think it should be no-stop. Are you guys thinking about joining this group? I hope we're all on the same page now. Sometimes it's hard to get through to this old guys head. Yoda </td></tr></table> Actually, they are pretty good about being cautious with lifts like C&J and thrusters. They prescribe standard weights for some exercises, but once you understand where they are coming from it is clear that these are upper limits, and that they don't propose that everyone start there. "Scaling" is a big part of their approach. So is learning to do lifts properly, especially Olympic lifts. I suggest that you take a little time to lurk their forum. It is really very interesting and informative. I've got other things planned for the next 7-8 months, but I may try Crossfit out after that. Porkchop