Program to work up to5k

[joshuaMRowing]

Had my C2 for about a week now. Completed 5 workouts with dark horse program. Trying to figure out a plan on where to go from here. Today’s the workout was a 15 min row at 22spm and it was very challenging for me. Made it 2600m in that time.

Was thinking about that beginner Pete plan based on feedback but no way I can do 5k yet. So is there another plan I can use to get to the point I’m ready to start the Pete plan?

[Dangerscouse]

I'm not sure there's. a specific plan, but can you confirm some details? Age, weight, drag factor, stroke rate and average pace will all be very useful. Also it will be helpful if you can confirm if you kept a steady pace, or if you slowed down as you progressed.

Making progress as a newbie on the rower is governed by a few things. 1) Technique has to be good, otherwise you will leak power and ingrain bad habits. 2) it needs to be a steady sustainable pace, and not what your ego is telling you to do. 3) don't have the drag factor too high, somewhere around 115-130 is probably about right.

For now, try doing the same workouts at a slower pace and seeing if that helps get you to go further. I suspect that you are trying to go too fast, too early. Rowing is hard, but it does get progressively easier but you have to build a solid base first.

[joshuaMRowing]

5’3” 170 pounds. 38 years old.

Pacing was Somewhat consistent. Drag factor was probably a little low at 100


Pace varied from 3:05/500m to 3:13/500. Avg was 310

Stroke rate was 23-24 throughout whole workout

I'm not sure there's. a specific plan, but can you confirm some details? Age, weight, drag factor, stroke rate and average pace will all be very useful. Also it will be helpful if you can confirm if you kept a steady pace, or if you slowed down as you progressed.

Making progress as a newbie on the rower is governed by a few things. 1) Technique has to be good, otherwise you will leak power and ingrain bad habits. 2) it needs to be a steady sustainable pace, and not what your ego is telling you to do. 3) don't have the drag factor too high, somewhere around 115-130 is probably about right.

For now, try doing the same workouts at a slower pace and seeing if that helps get you to go further. I suspect that you are trying to go too fast, too early. Rowing is hard, but it does get progressively easier but you have to build a solid base first.

[Dangerscouse]

Ok. I'd do the same workouts as close to 3:10 as possible, as 3:05 is too fast at the moment. I'm sure you will go further, and hopefully quite a lot further. Don't underestimate the mental side of rowing, as when it feels like really hard work, your head can be your worst enemy, so going a bit slower to start with is a far better option.

You might also want to consider breaking it up into intervals with 60, or 90, secs rest. This will give you time to catch your breath, have a small drink, and prepare to go again.

You're better with drag being too low than too high, so don't worry about that for now.

Stroke rate is about right, so no need to complicate matters with trying to address that right now.

Give it another 3 or 4 weeks, and reassess your progress then. Adapting to the movement, breathing sequence, and effort all take a bit of time, but not too long.

[mict450]

You've gotten some excellent advise from Stu that you would be wise to follow. Build up you volume slowly as you want to remain healthy & not get injured.

I would add that you learn how to row. Search on youtube for "pick drill" & "reverse pick". These are standard drills that break down the stroke & help you to ingrain the proper technique on your motor neurons.

For now, stay with your current rate, as Stu suggested, but down the road as your technique improves, gradually decrease to 20 or below. I'm a small guy also, 5' 5", 130 lbs but I regularly do my SS sessions at 16 - 18 spm.

Once you can comfortably row for 30 - 40 mins straight, you should be ready to start the BPP.

Best wishes on your training & above all, enjoy the process.

[mitchel674]

Welcome and congrats on the new rower.

Have you read through the sticky thread for beginners?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=185257

Lots of good information there. A few key points are to work on your rowing stroke and technique. Watch videos and do beginner drills. I strongly recommend the dark horse beginner video on you tube. It's 20 minutes but an excellent combination of Pick drills which will help with your stroke. I often use this video as a warm up before longer rows.

Do not even consider a plan like the Beginner Pete Plan at this point. You are probably 4-6 weeks away from being ready for a plan like that. You need to be able to easily row 5000m in one sitting before you begin that plan since the distances increase rapidly. It will be a great plan to follow once you are ready.

As Stu said, work on some intervals now and take breaks. You will gradually strengthen your stroke and improve your stamina.

[Allan Olesen]

You have already received excellent advice, but I think you could get better advice if you explain what is stopping you from doing a 5k right now.

• Are you stopping because you are out of breath?

• Are you stopping because you are out of strength?

• Are you stopping because you get pain?

• Are you stopping because you can't mentally cope with a longer session?

These are very different reasons for stopping, and they are all valid reasons, but they may have different solutions.

[joshuaMRowing]

Primarily out of breath and fatigued with genera muscle fatigue Legs back and arms

You have already received excellent advice, but I think you could get better advice if you explain what is stopping you from doing a 5k right now.

• Are you stopping because you are out of breath?

• Are you stopping because you are out of strength?

• Are you stopping because you get pain?

• Are you stopping because you can't mentally cope with a longer session?

These are very different reasons for stopping, and they are all valid reasons, but they may have different solutions.

[winniewinser]

Maybe a bit left field but you may find that you'll get better pace with a higher DF. I know it sounds illogical but my wife is around 5' and she has found that a higher drag has helped. She is around 8 on the adjuster which on ours erg is circa 160. Her goals are probably very different though.... she's just rowing for time/weight loss. Currently she will row up to 45mins.

[ampire]

It felt hard for me initially to do longer rows at first, a year and a half ago when I started, I found even doing 10 minutes pretty exhausting, but I started doing longer and longer pieces each week. Rating of 22 SPM is a good starting point, just try to ease into a few more minutes each session. You could also try doing a bunch of 10 minute rows whenever you get some free time, the seat time will add up. Post a video of your form so we can evaluate your technique, shorter rowers simply have to be very efficient to get speed as they can't rely on leverage, and good technique really improves your economy.

[Allan Olesen]

5’3” 170 pounds. 38 years old.

Pacing was Somewhat consistent. Drag factor was probably a little low at 100


Pace varied from 3:05/500m to 3:13/500. Avg was 310

Stroke rate was 23-24 throughout whole workout

I thought these numbers sounded strange for a 38 year old, so I just tried to reproduce them.

I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but at least it is something you can work on:
On the surface it appears that you have a nice, low stroke rate. But the reality is that your stroke rate is only low because you spend so much time in a very slow and inefficient drive phase.

Your return is far too fast. You are probably pulling all the way with your feet in the straps to get back to the catch that fast. As a result, you are spending a lot of effort moving your body back and forth without really channeling any energy into the handle of the rower.

My advice:
You need to work on getting a good, strong, fast drive phase.
And you need to slow your return phase down. A lot!

If you want to continue using pace as a metric, you can try to look at the distance you get with each stroke. Right now you get 6-7 meters per stroke. Try to increase that to 10 meter per stroke. To achieve that, you will have to pull harder (push harder with your feet) and you will have to slow down your return to allow for the meters to spin up before you do the next drive.

This will not necessarily solve your endurance problem, but what you are doing now, is not something you can build on.

[joshuaMRowing]

How do I see distance per stroke?

With erg data is the average force or peak force meaningful?

Is there a way to post form pics on here?

5’3” 170 pounds. 38 years old.

Pacing was Somewhat consistent. Drag factor was probably a little low at 100


Pace varied from 3:05/500m to 3:13/500. Avg was 310

Stroke rate was 23-24 throughout whole workout

I thought these numbers sounded strange for a 38 year old, so I just tried to reproduce them.

I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but at least it is something you can work on:
On the surface it appears that you have a nice, low stroke rate. But the reality is that your stroke rate is only low because you spend so much time in a very slow and inefficient drive phase.

Your return is far too fast. You are probably pulling all the way with your feet in the straps to get back to the catch that fast. As a result, you are spending a lot of effort moving your body back and forth without really channeling any energy into the handle of the rower.

My advice:
You need to work on getting a good, strong, fast drive phase.
And you need to slow your return phase down. A lot!

If you want to continue using pace as a metric, you can try to look at the distance you get with each stroke. Right now you get 6-7 meters per stroke. Try to increase that to 10 meter per stroke. To achieve that, you will have to pull harder (push harder with your feet) and you will have to slow down your return to allow for the meters to spin up before you do the next drive.

This will not necessarily solve your endurance problem, but what you are doing now, is not something you can build on.

[Allan Olesen]

How do I see distance per stroke?

You have to watch the distance counter and see how much it has counted up after every stroke.

And that is probably the reason that 10 meter is a popular target - it is easy to see if the last digit is the same after every stroke.

It is a pity that neither the PM nor Ergdata have any good built-in metrics for stroke quality. Distance per stroke would be nice to have. Energy per stroke (also called SPI) would be even better.

With erg data is the average force or peak force meaningful?

I use average force myself. Assuming that you have constant drive length, it is proportional with your stroke energy (my preferred metric).

My guess is that you will see an average force around 10-15 kg. You should be able to very easily increase that to 25-30 kg. If you get in good shape, you will probably end up around 50 kg or more.

Is there a way to post form pics on here?

I posted an image yesterday where I used an image upload service: https://imgbb.com/

When you have uploaded the image, you can copy a BBcode link, which you can insert directly in your post here.

[MiddleAgeCRISIS]

Had my C2 for about a week now. Completed 5 workouts with dark horse program. Trying to figure out a plan on where to go from here. Today’s the workout was a 15 min row at 22spm and it was very challenging for me. Made it 2600m in that time.

Was thinking about that beginner Pete plan based on feedback but no way I can do 5k yet. So is there another plan I can use to get to the point I’m ready to start the Pete plan?

Well done! If you are consistent with your efforts - you'll find your aches easing off. Are you measuring your heart rate?

I've found it more sustainable to row quite slowly and improve gradually than try to beast myself.

[ampire]

This video is extremely helpful for understanding how to engage the flywheel. The one foot in one foot out drill is really nice around 11 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLyOyWls9_Y

It is important to engage the flywheel properly so your effort is recorded by the machine.

Another thing to try is to make sure you aren't engaging your arms prematurely other than to provide a connection to your feet. The biceps and upper back are primarily used at the finish. To get a long stroke you need to have a proper sequence of legs, torso, arms and a recovery of arms, torso, legs. If you blend the sequence so you engage your arms and torso at the same time as your legs, you will get a shorter stroke and generate less watts.

For most of the stroke, the arms are a connection point between the handle and your heels.