What Strength Training Have You Done Today

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » March 8th, 2005, 8:54 am

Neil,<br /><br />Since I have to use a step stool to get on top of the ball, I've noticed that the air considerably thinner up there. All you tall guys are seeing things a lot different than I do. <br /><br />Gary,<br /><br />I don't know about the critical analysis thing, I'm just trying to understand. Besides, you didn't tell me what you thought of the Versa Climber. <br /><br />Okay, here we go. As a muscle group recruits X number of fibers to lift a given weight on a given plane. As the muscle group is being worked more fibers are used until every fiber has been recruited to reach failure. Once the muscle group has reached that point, why is there a need to repeat the exercise. Regardless of the plane. I don't believe that that muscle group knows that you are performing a 15 degree incline press. It only know that it has been called upon to do it's job. <br /><br />If what I think you are saying is that the muscle group develops based on the plane that it is worked on, then I'm thinking that there is something amiss. If this were the case, then a person could develop odd shaped muscles by simply working out on one particular plane. Example; By doing concentration curls for an extended period of time a bicep shaped like a baseball could be developed. But that isn't the case. Genetics sneak in there. If a person is trying to develop strength for a different specific sport, then the plane becomes extremely important. Bodybuilding is one thing and it is almost always about the pump. Strength training is never about the pump, but is always about the sport a person is training for. <br /><br />How's that? Remember no yelling.<br />Yoda

[old] gw1 · Post by **[old] gw1** » March 8th, 2005, 11:27 am

Yoda,<br /><br />The Versa Climber is an evil but effective piece of equipment, i do 1-3 min intervals on it in between compound weight exercises during circuit workouts.<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>As the muscle group is being worked more fibers are used until every fiber has been recruited to reach failure. </td></tr></table><br />If you are training at a submaximal level you are not reaching complete failure, you can enhance muscular endurance by higher rep sets with less resistance and short rest periods. I would generally use this type of training in a 3-6 week micro cycle, but as i'm doing now using it in the off session for a change!<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>If this were the case, then a person could develop odd shaped muscles by simply working out on one particular plane </td></tr></table><br />I believe that muscular imbalances can happen if a variety of planes and directions are not recuited into a training program. Similar, but not the same as an imbalance that can occur in an athlete that swings, throws, or pulls an oar from one side only. I do all my sport specific cable or medicine ball work, myself and those i train from both sides.<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Example; By doing concentration curls for an extended period of time a bicep shaped like a baseball could be developed. But that isn't the case. </td></tr></table><br />I'm not sure i agree with this. Every one may not be able to attain a bicep the size of a baseball but if you did concentration curls to failure for an extended period your biceps muscle would develop to its fullest potential. <br />However this would be detrimental to just about every sporting and lifestyle activity as you would have created a muscular imbalance in relation to the rest of your body!<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>But that isn't the case. Genetics sneak in there </td></tr></table><br />IMO, genetics are definitely the ultimate limiting factor.<br /><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>If a person is trying to develop strength for a different specific sport, then the plane becomes extremely important. </td></tr></table><br />I compete at 3 totally different sports, thats why i train the way i do. I periodize my training around my annual competition calender. <br /><br />As always Yoda (and all others) it's enjoyable chatting with you!<br /><br />Cheers<br />Gary<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » March 8th, 2005, 12:35 pm

Oh Gary, you old dog, you.<br /><br />Well done. Great answers. Would you like a job? Just joking, retirees don't talk about jobs.<br /><br />You did bring up an excellent point, though. Imbalances, many folks believe that just doing exercises that fit the specific sport are enough. It does create imbalances. Like extremely heavy repeated lifting the imbalances seem to show up later in life. I couldn't being to tell you the number of track people I've tested that have imbalances, front to rear. You automaticly know there is an imbalance when the person can move more resistance in leg curl than in leg extension. Then they can't understand why the small of the back hurts. We live and learn, huh?<br /><br />What are the three sports you're involved in? No wait, let me guess. Rowing, of course. Bowling and golf. Weight training doesn't qualify as a sport in this instance. Was I close?<br /><br />I gotta go practice by levitating now. Hey did you notice the funny faces I did. Here I go again, running in circles and yelling.<br />Yoda

[old] gw1 · Post by **[old] gw1** » March 8th, 2005, 1:11 pm

Yoda<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>What are the three sports you're involved in? No wait, let me guess. Rowing, of course. Bowling and golf. Weight training doesn't qualify as a sport in this instance. Was I close? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Rowing, Golf (including a number of years as a professional long driver) and surf life saving events (paddling, surfing, etc i swim, but not competitively).<br />As well as actively coaching the sports my sons participate in!<br /><br /><br />Cheers<br />GW

[old] starboardrigged1seat · Post by **[old] starboardrigged1seat** » March 8th, 2005, 2:09 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Mar 8 2005, 12:11 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Yoda<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>What are the three sports you're involved in? No wait, let me guess. Rowing, of course. Bowling and golf. Weight training doesn't qualify as a sport in this instance. Was I close? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Rowing, Golf (including a number of years as a professional long driver) and surf life saving events (paddling, surfing, etc i swim, but not competitively).<br />As well as actively coaching the sports my sons participate in!<br /><br /><br />Cheers<br />GW <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I also compete in life-saving events during the summer -- surfboat rowing, paddling, surfing, short rescues, entries, line-pulls, run-swim-run-paddle-run, and like you, have found that the best non-aerobic training for this competition is relatively high-rep and high intensity weight lifting that hits each major muscle group from a number of angles with different compound exercises. I will typically do exercises like incline bench with dumbells, flat flys, bend over rows, one arm dumbell rows, one leg squats, bent over flies, military press with dumbells, etc.

[old] gw1 · Post by **[old] gw1** » March 8th, 2005, 2:26 pm

starboardrigged1seat<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I also compete in life-saving events during the summer -- surfboat rowing, paddling, surfing, short rescues, entries, line-pulls, run-swim-run-paddle-run, and like you, have found that the best non-aerobic training for this competition is relatively high-rep and high intensity weight lifting that hits each major muscle group from a number of angles with different compound exercises. I will typically do exercises like incline bench with dumbells, flat flys, bend over rows, one arm dumbell rows, one leg squats, bent over flies, military press with dumbells, etc. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Enjoy your summers of lifeguarding and competition, i don't do it for a living anymore, however i still enjoy the competition especially now my boys are getting involved.<br /><br />One thing with regard to the weight training, i only use the high rep (muscular endurance) micro-cycle for 3-6 week periods, generally after a cycle of approx 6 weeks of low reps (5-8 reps)/heavy weights (strength phase) , then a similar period of mid reps (9-12 reps) (power phase). IMO multi-joint/compound movements are always the best. I don't use many isolation movements because i believe that for a body to be it's most effective that it must have it's muscle groups working together not individually!<br /><br /><br />GW

[old] JaneW. · Post by **[old] JaneW.** » March 8th, 2005, 7:11 pm

[quote=neilb,Mar 8 2005, 01:34 AM]<br /><br />I envy your evening runs. I am surrounded by countryside but too many years of (field) hockey mean that running is no longer the fun it was.<br /><br /><br />Apart from rowing my main exercise now limited to pilates, which is great, and the swiss ball for core strength (whch helps with rowing) and balance. <br /><br />I can kneel upright (and also stand) on the swiss ball and maintain balance i.e. remain still. The medicine ball work helps to destabilise the body and so forces me to work harder to maintain position. (e.g. the slow shift in the balance point caused by 3kg front raise and the quicker reaction force needed to throw a light ball against a wall and catch it)<br /><br />Hi Neil,<br /><br />Your exercises venture into the area of dynamic and functional strength. Fascinating! I have been looking at Joseph Pilates' work. His knowledge of boxing, gymnastics, and even yoga helped him to invent exercises during his stay at the concentration camps. He takes a look at the whole body system, not one body part at a time. Can I ask what kind of pilates do you do and have you worked with the machines? I am familiar with mat pilates. Also, have you taken a look at the latest DVD on rowing and pilates? <br /><br />Based on your rowing times, you're a good runner. Are your knees really hurting you when you run? What do the doctors say? Joseph Pilates helped me to understand that aligning musculoskeletal structure of the body decreases chances for injuries and pain immensely. Hope to hear from you soon. <br /><br />Yoda,<br />I am uncomfortable telling you where I live because I am not sure how safe this website is. Sorry.<br /><br /> Wish you guys the best, Jane

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » March 8th, 2005, 8:10 pm

Squats, dumbell rows, barbell rows. Seeing some progress in both strength and cardio right now which is nice. <br /><br />

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » March 9th, 2005, 1:19 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(JaneW. @ Mar 8 2005, 06:11 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Can I ask what kind of pilates do you do and have you worked with the machines? I am familiar with mat pilates. Also, have you taken a look at the latest DVD on rowing and pilates? <br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Jane,<br /><br />My work is all mat based.<br /><br />I started about 2 years ago. My then gym started classes. These were taken by an external instructor who was a trained dancer and freelance trainer. I was training at the time with her boyfriend, who was a powerlifter, and he recommended her classes. His rather enlightened view was that pilates (and swiss ball) would complement the weightlifting.<br /><br />I was fortunate because she was very good and there was a small group of us who started around the same time and carried on together.<br /><br />She left after 12 months to take a full time role at a pilates school in Denmark. The gym actually managed to find a replacement who was even better. This guy was a professional ballet dancer who had learnt and developed pilates as part of his dance training and then progressed on to become an instructor.<br /><br />The range of exercises and the challenges he posed came just at the right time. Again he was a very good teacher partly because pilates was a way of life to him and also because he was passionate about it.<br /><br />I have now left that gym and he has moved south, again for a full time role at a pilates studio. <br /><br />At the moment I use routines taught by these instructors, I also have a book by Brooke Siler from which I have taken some additional routines.<br /><br />I have not used a machine although the last instructor I refer to did use one himself and he was very positive about it. <br /><br />Things are a bit hectic at the moment but when they settle down I will probably seek out an instructor/studio for a refresher in technique etc. and perhaps look at the machine.<br /><br />I am hooked; it is a very good way to workout and suitable/beneficial for all ages. A lot of people think it looks easy but when they come to classes then they realise just how challenging it can be.<br /><br />I have not seen the DVD. If it is worth a look can you let me know the title/author?<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />Neil

[old] ninthman · Post by **[old] ninthman** » March 9th, 2005, 5:09 pm

Advice requested:<br /><br />My gym at NYU has no high bench. Therefore, I cannot do bench pulls as I would like.<br /><br />Are bent-over rows a good substitute? I've tried with 70 pounds, but I'm wary about going heavier out of concern for my back. I recall working at over 130 or 140 on the high bench a number of years ago, so I really don't feel as though it's enough weight.<br /><br />Should I ditch bent-over rows and just concentrate on pullups or something? Or perhaps just "rows" with the cable apparatus? (Sit on a bench, feet braced, pull a cable bar... on a Universal setup.)

[old] gw1 · Post by **[old] gw1** » March 9th, 2005, 5:20 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>My gym at NYU has no high bench. Therefore, I cannot do bench pulls as I would like.<br /><br />Are bent-over rows a good substitute? I've tried with 70 pounds, </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm assuming 70lbs is the weight of a DB not barbell, if you could bench pull 130+.<br /><br />Many trainers prefer Bent rows (DB or barbell) to bench rows. Bench rows have a bad reputation for causing rib injuries. <br />Chins, bent rows, and high pulls are a good mix IMO.<br /><br /><br />Gary

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » March 9th, 2005, 6:01 pm

Strength training today:<br /><br />30 pullups in 2:00 on rollerboard at 28%<br /><br />This is a good improvement and I might have done more but my arms are still quite sore, primarily in my triceps, from the workout 4 days ago (post #115). Once the soreness is gone then I think it is possible to do 40 of them. My goal is 60 in 3:00 in however long that takes, maybe a month or two, then I'll raise up the level.<br /><br />Because of doing so many reps, I've decided most importantly to stay with single sets of each exercise, a limit of 3 exercises each day, and to do these every 4 days or so.<br /><br />I'm going to do the deadlifts tomorrow and may skip arm extensions this week, because of the lingering soreness.

[old] ninthman · Post by **[old] ninthman** » March 9th, 2005, 7:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Mar 9 2005, 05:20 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>My gym at NYU has no high bench. Therefore, I cannot do bench pulls as I would like.<br /><br />Are bent-over rows a good substitute? I've tried with 70 pounds, </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm assuming 70lbs is the weight of a DB not barbell, if you could bench pull 130+.<br /><br />Many trainers prefer Bent rows (DB or barbell) to bench rows. Bench rows have a bad reputation for causing rib injuries. <br />Chins, bent rows, and high pulls are a good mix IMO.<br /><br /><br />Gary <br /> </td></tr></table><br />No, it's a barbell.<br /><br />I'm standing, legs slightly bent at the knees, then bending almost 90 degrees at the waist, and pulling the barbell to my nips. I really really don't feel comfortable loading up to 100+ pounds bent at the waist, at least not without advice and confirmation that this is OK.<br /><br />Would you recommend what I've heard called "lawn-mower pulls"? Where you put your right knee on a bench, left palm flat on bench with straight arm, and do pulls to shoulder with a dumbbell?<br /><br />And when you say "high pulls," are you referring to standing-rows? (Stand upright, barbell held with a narrow grip wrists facing out, pull the bar up to chin level on a straight line an inch or two in front of your chest?)

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » March 9th, 2005, 7:56 pm

High Pulls:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Del ... htRow.html' target='_blank'>http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Del ... ow.html</a>

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » March 9th, 2005, 9:49 pm

Ninthman,<br /><br />Since I'm a firm believer in matching the resistance movement with the specific sport movement, I would say your best bet would be rowing on a Universal style of machine. Bent rows are a great exercise as well, but you have to have some confidence in yourself to work them correctly. I suppose if you started light and worked your way up, you'd be fine. You just need to allow the small of your back to get used to the position. But just jumping in would be a bad mistake. I you do decide to try bent over rows, which is a heck of a lot better than pullups or chins IMHO, you might find something to rest your head on in order to maintain the same position throughout the move. Don't rest your head, just use it as a guide for body position. The reason is there is a tendencey to gradually raise your body up as you fatigue. Dumbell rows (lawn mower pulls)would be good as well, but I would place them third on the list of prefered exercises in this instance.<br /><br />Hey, let us know what you've decided to do and what you experience while doing it. We're all interested.<br /><br />Yoda