Heart-Rate Recovery as a fitness indicator?

[Nomath]

I wonder whether persons on this forum use the Heart-Rate Recovery (HRR) as a measure of fitness. HRR is the drop in heart rate in 1 minute after ceasing exercise?

It is known that the HRR after a maximal or submaximal exercise discriminates between healthy and unhealthy people. A very low HRR value is a predictor of early mortality. A study of a group of about 2500 people with first symptoms of blood circulation problems, mostly aged above 50 yrs, found that an HRR value below 12 bpm (25th percentile point) was a strong predictor of mortality in a 6 yr follow-up period. In this “unhealthy’ group, the median HRR value was 17 bpm and the 75th percentile point was 23 bpm.

Readers of this forum will most likely belong to the healthy part of the population, showing significantly higher HRR values. A study of a group of about 140 young (22 ± 4 yrs), male athletes (soccer, basketball, water polo) showed the following HRR-distribution after a maximal effort on a treadmill.
5th percentile : 10 bpm
10th percentile : 14 bpm
25th percentile : 18 bpm
50th percentile : 26 bpm
75th percentile : 37 bpm
90th percentile : 57 bpm
95th percentile : 63 bpm
It should be added that these values were measured during a recovery in which the activity was not completely stopped. The subjects were asked to continue on an easy walking pace (4 km/h ; flat). This low level activity might have reduced the HRR values by a few beats. On the other hand, the group was composed of elite athletes performing on a national/international level, having at least 5 yrs of training and training at least 10 hrs per week during the season. These two qualifications might cancel and the above table may well serve as a general reference for a healthy, active population.

Studies have also shown that the HRR value does not change much with age.
Other studies have shown that the HRR increases after a period of intensive training.

HRR is easy to measure. Besides a heart rate transmitter it only requires a decent timer. A logging device such as my Polar M460 bike computer is a nice instrument if you want to review the curve.

My daily rowing activity is 5K or 10K row with no pause. On some days I aim for a near-maximum effort and on other days I take it easy. I always aim for a negative split with the maximum HR near the end. My average HRR value is about 50 bpm. The graphs below show a typical HR profile: 1 minute rest before start exercise (~50 bpm) followed by a 5K row and the recovery (1th to 4th dotted vertical line). The HR at the finish of the 5K (1th dotted line) was 136 bpm. It dropped to 84 bpm after 1 minute (2nd vertical line ; hence HRR=52) and to 72 bpm after 2 minutes.






I always observe that in the first 10 seconds after ceasing exercise the HR does not drop but stays level. It shows that the heart rate lags activity. Usually in the first minute there is a steady drop in HR. In about half of the HR recovery profiles I observed a shoulder peak between 1 and 2 minutes (see example below). So far I haven’t found an explanation why the HR doesn’t drop steadily but goes up briefly (typically 5-8 bpm). Published HR recovery profiles also often show such a shoulder peak.



I have only just started to collect HRR values systematically. I did not observe that HRR is strongly related to the maximum HR, i.e. whether the exercise is submaximal or maximal. Occasionally I observe a much lower HRR, as in the above curve (HRmax=153, dropped to 114 after 1 min, hence HRR=39). My guess is that it is a sign of strain, possibly overactivity, but humidity may also play a role.

Questions:
Are there others who measure their HRR?
Is there an effect of training, e.g. following Peter Plan?
Any thoughts or observations on why HRR is occasional much lower than usual?

[Carl Watts]

Yes it's great I posted here years ago that Concept 2 should have the function on the PM5. It has the graph of the HR decay and the timer ability that can start automatically at the completion of your row.

It's useful but only for comparison between similar rows of length and intensity. The longer your in a higher HR zone the slower the recovery. If you just blip a high HR for a short duration it recovers much faster.

Did not find the 1min test that useful rather I looked at the total recovery time to drop to say 116bpm and monitored that. The faster the recovery the fitter you are. Used to take about 2min 30 sec.

[Nomath]

... The longer your in a higher HR zone the slower the recovery...

That's not what I observe. Below is a 10K where I stayed about 20 mins in the red zone (HR at finish is 156 ; my HRmax is about 160).
HRR is about 45 bpm.


I certainly would enjoy if Concept2 adds the HRR feature to the PM5!

[Carl Watts]

Thinking about it, the recovery time function would now be better added to ErgData and not the PM5. The screen resolution is much better on your smartphone.

Using only a stopwatch is a pain, for starters you loose seconds at the start and you have to monitor it. This is no good because after a session using RowPro your in the after row chat so you don't want to be looking continuously at stopwatch.

Its an ideal "Optional" screen for ErgData to be able to turn on and also you just need to enter your final HR at which the timer cuts off at. Many people use 100 as the cut off but its better at a percentage of your maximum HR. 100 was way to low for me, would have been looking at closer to 5 or more minutes.

[flatbread]

I don't use it with the ergs, but I use it as one of many data points when looking at whether or not I'm race ready on the bike.

I think the main value of HRR is that it shows how quickly you'r ready for another high intensity effort. So, for a sport that is pretty stochastic, where races are decided by who can handle the most, and most intense, surges in pace -- like bike racing, or nordic skiing (in both cases, the big gaps happen attacking the hills, and you get a little recovery on the descents), HRR can tell you how ready you are to handle repeated efforts.

Overall? Maybe. I wouldn't pin too much on any data point, but it could certainly be another part of the picture.

[hjs]

... The longer your in a higher HR zone the slower the recovery...

That's not what I observe. Below is a 10K where I stayed about 20 mins in the red zone (HR at finish is 156 ; my HRmax is about 160).
HRR is about 45 bpm.


I certainly would enjoy if Concept2 adds the HRR feature to the PM5!

I do see that. How tired you are absolutely does matter. If you go for a short fast peak, hf will drop rapidly after you stop. If you would do a long session and reach the same end Hf, it would drop much slower.
Its not just hf recovery, but also how fast you can get your hf up that is a good indication. A healthy fit person would have both.

[flatbread]

splitting hairs, but I'd say the athlete's ability to quickly raise HR and quickly recover as evidence of peaking -- combined fitness and freshness.

I've seen a lot of power files from riders over the last 20 years, and one trend I'll see is that, towards the end of a training block focusing on 4-5min transport intervals, we'll see workouts where HR doesn't rise as quickly as it did at the start of the block, maybe peak HR in the workout is lower, but power is higher and HRR is quicker. Fitter, but not fresh -- the HR is suppressed a bit due to the fatigue of the training block, but recovery between efforts is good, and power is up.

A week or so to freshen up and then, yes, bam, do a 5 or 8min power test and see a quick rise in HR, higher HR achieved, and quick HRR. that's an athlete who's ready to really go.

[Nomath]

...
Its not just hf recovery, but also how fast you can get your hf up that is a good indication. A healthy fit person would have both.

To make the rise in heart-rate quantifiable and reproducible, you need to define and provide a certain load. That's not obvious. It requires tools usually only available in a sports performance lab.

The advantage of the HRR is that is easy to measure at home. Besides the HR transmitter, you only need a timer. As Carl Watts pointed out: the PM5 already contains all the measuring tools. The HRR value will most likely be the same whether the exercise is done on a rowing erg, on a stationary bike or on a treatmill. There is a vast base of scientific studies about the effects of intensity, duration, age and training on HRR.

[MPx]

I know its very clear in this thread and will be to all experienced ergers taking part in the discussion, but just in case anyone new to Heart Rate training is reading this thread it may be worth pointing out that in most threads on HR on this site HRR stands for Heart Rate Range and is the difference between Resting Heart Rate and Max Heart Rate, and nothing to do with recovery.

Now back as you were.....

[sciguy]

Hi Nomath,

I got started looking this indicator almost by accident. The Garmin Forerunner 310Xt that I use in part as a heart rate monitor automatically measures the 2 minute heart rate recovery and beeps once it's arrived at. Initially I noticed that its value from day to day and started to write it down along with other parameters such as yardage, pace/500m and wattage. It matches up well with my perceived fitness and level of rest. If I'm not well recovered, coming down with something, untrained............I see lower values. If my fitness is good, I'm rested and healthy I see values in the mid to high 50s. My one minute values are only a few beats less. I actually hit a low bpm at ~ 90 seconds with a slight rise at the 2 minute mark.

So yes I think it has some value as to your fitness level as well as health and rest level.

YMMV

Hugh

[hjs]

...
Its not just hf recovery, but also how fast you can get your hf up that is a good indication. A healthy fit person would have both.

To make the rise in heart-rate quantifiable and reproducible, you need to define and provide a certain load. That's not obvious. It requires tools usually only available in a sports performance lab.

The advantage of the HRR is that is easy to measure at home. Besides the HR transmitter, you only need a timer. As Carl Watts pointed out: the PM5 already contains all the measuring tools. The HRR value will most likely be the same whether the exercise is done on a rowing erg, on a stationary bike or on a treatmill. There is a vast base of scientific studies about the effects of intensity, duration, age and training on HRR.

Thats not a good argument, just because its easy to see, its not the most important. I see people being very hung up on hf stuff, but its only a fraction on overall health. Aerobic fitness is certainly important, but absolutely not the only thing. Healthwise only doing aerobic stuff is not the best thing to do. Just like only doing weights stuff is not.

I hear nothing about performance. Say you have two people of a 6 min 2k and one a 8 min 2k. Same age etc.. The 8 min guy can have a good Hf recovery, but he recovers from a very poor level. Extreme example, but relevant.

Nothing about strenght. Handgrip is a very good and easy to measure tool.

The sitting down and comming up test. Very telling about overall health, and super simple.

Can one do some decent pushups, pullups? Aerobic focussed people often can’t. Upperbody strenght is non excistent.

Other point, recovery, can you do a decent effort, no matter what and have no ill effects the next day. Nothing to do with Hf readings and again super easy to do. Work the garden, go hiking, a game of sports. All can be very telling.

[Nomath]

Hi Nomath,
....
So yes I think it has some value as to your fitness level as well as health and rest level.

YMMV
Hugh

Hi Hugh,
Thanks for sharing your positive comments. The paper from which I cited the distribution of HRR values after 1 minute, also lists the distribution of HRR values in the same group of elite athletes after 2 minutes rest. I copy only the upper half of the table:
50th percentile point : 56 bpm
75th percentile point : 66 bpm
90th percentile point : 74 bpm
95th percentiel point : 85 bpm
As I explain below in response to another comment, the magnitude of HRR is not a good fitness indicator. For an individual, the changes from your day-to-day HRR baseline is what matters, especially lower values.

[Nomath]

I hear nothing about performance.
...

Thanks for the reply, which gives me a chance to address a probable misunderstanding.

In my first post I listed the distribution of HRR-values for a group of 150 young, elite athletes. The 1-minute HRR-values ranged between below 10 bpm (5th percentile point) to above 63 bpm (95th percentile). This implies that about 8 out of 150 of these athletes had a HRR below 10, which would qualify as 'unhealthy' and ''prone to early mortality' if taken just by itself. There is no doubt about the fitness and the performance level of the group. They all performed on a national and international level in soccer, basketball, water polo!

Hence the magnitude of HRR is not relevant. In a group, HRR is a very poor indicator of fitness.

The merit is HRR lies in monitoring it for each individual in time. This is called a longitudinal view. You don't have to believe just me that HRR is a useful fitness indicator. Many sport scientists support this view. If you find scientific papers too daunting, there are more popular texts that explain my point, e.g. https://adamvirgile.com/2019/04/02/hear ... -athletes/

Easy-to-measure is a big advantage. We would probably all like to measure our VO2max, but the cost of the measuring tools is prohibitive. HRR is very simple to measure. Why not try to explore it if it helps you in your training programs and in maintaining fitness?

[jamesg]

As seen from the graphs, recovery is asymptotic, as would be expected: recovery rate approximately proportional to range above rest rate. If I go to 130 HR (RHR 60) I see 25 decay/minute, about 35%. If 140-145, around 30/minute, but still 35%. So this could be a better metric.

The Interactives used HR decay in Intervals, saying start again at 100, 110 or 120 as to purpose. If fit, rest times can become very short, a minute is usually enough; but a true believer in HR control would take the rough with the smooth.

When I want to estimate my "fitness" I check my Watt/kg ratio in a 500 test. Can do it any time, if warm. A 2k would be better, but it takes such a long time.

[hjs]

I hear nothing about performance.
...

Thanks for the reply, which gives me a chance to address a probable misunderstanding.

In my first post I listed the distribution of HRR-values for a group of 150 young, elite athletes. The 1-minute HRR-values ranged between below 10 bpm (5th percentile point) to above 63 bpm (95th percentile). This implies that about 8 out of 150 of these athletes had a HRR below 10, which would qualify as 'unhealthy' and ''prone to early mortality' if taken just by itself. There is no doubt about the fitness and the performance level of the group. They all performed on a national and international level in soccer, basketball, water polo!

Hence the magnitude of HRR is not relevant. In a group, HRR is a very poor indicator of fitness.

The merit is HRR lies in monitoring it for each individual in time. This is called a longitudinal view. You don't have to believe just me that HRR is a useful fitness indicator. Many sport scientists support this view. If you find scientific papers too daunting, there are more popular texts that explain my point, e.g. https://adamvirgile.com/2019/04/02/hear ... -athletes/

Easy-to-measure is a big advantage. We would probably all like to measure our VO2max, but the cost of the measuring tools is prohibitive. HRR is very simple to measure. Why not try to explore it if it helps you in your training programs and in maintaining fitness?

Cheers, thx.

Think it could help ofcourse, but for average Joe, we forummembers, there are often so many obvious things to adress that hf stuff really is not that important. For myself, I have not used any hf monitoring in years. Don’t know my current max, nor my rest Hf.
Its maybe also a age matter. I can’t train to improve anymore. So motivation on that front is not so high.