Rowing & Not Losing Weight ??

[old] trevor reznik · Post by **[old] trevor reznik** » May 1st, 2005, 3:55 pm

Hi, Anybody out there who rows/ergs and does NOT lose weight, or maybe even gain some (bigger muscles) ? I'm a slimbuilt cyclist and I'm thinking of buying a concept2 rower to do crosstraining. I am planning to use the erg as an overall strengthmachine (with high drag). Good or bad idea? Is a C2 rower suited for this, or is it mainly an aerobic tool ? The thing is: I'm thin enough and I don't wanna lose bodyweight !! Suggestions like : "eat more" don't apply to me. when I eat more the only thing that grows is my belly. I'm the type that bodybuilders would call a hardgainer, hardly any growth in spite of heavy training (I've tried it a few years ago). On the other hand: when I cycle a lot (summer) I always lose about 2 kilo's. Greetings from the land of windmills, tulips and legal prostitution.

[old] tditmar · Post by **[old] tditmar** » May 1st, 2005, 10:16 pm

I am not a slim build guy. I am fairly muscular, and the rower absolutely makes me bigger, not slimmer. At one point, my girlfriend wanted me to stop because she thought it was making me too big through the shoulders. I am approx. 5'10", 200lbs., and she thought it was making me as wide as I am tall. She told me I was turning into a square. I actually wish I could use it to drop lbs from time to time, unfortunately only running seems to do that. Even more unfortunately I am out of the running game for a while due to sesamoiditis. I must say however, I do not do a lot of long rows which may make a difference. I usually stick with 6k or less and intervals. If I rowed longer it might be different. Anyway, I think rowing seems very much like doing bodyweight exercises for an extended period of time. Or you might equate the effort to something like wrestling. It funny though. I would say running is more difficult, but I have noticed something lately. Rowing tends to knacker my body to where I can easily get sick, while running does not. I think it may be because I am using the entire body, lower cadence, more effort, and for as long as a run. Running knocks me out and I tend to drop weight quickly, but it does not knacker me quite as much. In fact I quickly feel refreshed. I experience a greater high after rowing, but it is different from the runner's high. It is almost a druggy high, but I can feel my immune system more effected later. I don't know if I am making sense, but I do remember onetime reading an interview with James Cracknell who said he always felt knackered rowing. Always on the verge of getting sick. You probably don't get in any better shape than him, so to me it says something about the effort that goes into a rowing session. Especially at his level. Here are a couple of good article on the physiology of rowing: <a href='http://www.eis2win.co.uk/gen/news_physi ... 9&%20.aspx' target='_blank'>http://www.eis2win.co.uk/gen/news_physi ... spx</a> <a href='http://home.hia.no/~stephens/rowphys.htm' target='_blank'>http://home.hia.no/~stephens/rowphys.htm</a>

[old] akit110 · Post by **[old] akit110** » May 2nd, 2005, 10:48 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(trevor reznik @ May 1 2005, 03:55 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hi, Anybody out there who rows/ergs and does NOT lose weight, or maybe even gain some (bigger muscles) ? I'm a slimbuilt cyclist and I'm thinking of buying a concept2 rower to do crosstraining. I am planning to use the erg as an overall strengthmachine (with high drag). Good or bad idea? Is a C2 rower suited for this, or is it mainly an aerobic tool ? The thing is: I'm thin enough and I don't wanna lose bodyweight !! Suggestions like : "eat more" don't apply to me. when I eat more the only thing that grows is my belly. I'm the type that bodybuilders would call a hardgainer, hardly any growth in spite of heavy training (I've tried it a few years ago). On the other hand: when I cycle a lot (summer) I always lose about 2 kilo's. Greetings from the land of windmills, tulips and legal prostitution. </td></tr></table> I picked up rowing regularly on the C2 at the beginning of February. I usually row between 5-10K a session, 3-5x/week. I am about 5'11 and 165lb. I have noticed that I have not lost any weight based on the scale. I think my body looks a bit more toned to me (despite cutting back on weight training quite a bit) but it's hard to tell. Mostly, I think I look the same (I already had a relatively big back and quads for my frame prior to rowing). However, sleep and diet have worsened due to a newborn in the family so that's a confounding factor.

[old] akit110 · Post by **[old] akit110** » May 2nd, 2005, 10:52 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(tditmar @ May 1 2005, 10:16 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Anyway, I think rowing seems very much like doing bodyweight exercises for an extended period of time. Or you might equate the effort to something like wrestling. </td></tr></table> I have to agree with this observation. I used to do a lot of bodyweight exercises to supplement my martial arts training e.g. 500 reps of bodyweight squats, a hundred dive bomber pushups, bridges. I feel rowing seems to give me similar benefits e.g. increasing muscular endurance rather than absolute strength.

[old] tomkervin · Post by **[old] tomkervin** » May 2nd, 2005, 10:55 pm

Interesting question. I rowed for the last 6 weeks of the 2005 season. I am mostly a weight lifter and I am using rowing for cardio. I gained 4 lbs. during that time to reach 205 lbs. at 6'-1". Age 53. I had hoped to slim down a bit-oh well.

[old] sharp_rower · Post by **[old] sharp_rower** » May 3rd, 2005, 5:37 am

High drag is a very bad idea for a small person. You will hurt your back. Guaranteed.

[old] shu246 · Post by **[old] shu246** » May 7th, 2005, 11:42 am

would be nice if i could lose a few pounds. when i hauled the old model b out of storage a year ago i gratifyingly dropped from about 215 to 200 then stabilized, then crept back up to 205. seems the more i row, the hungrier i get, the more i eat. what i do have however is alot better distributed.

[old] sian · Post by **[old] sian** » May 7th, 2005, 10:36 pm

if you are fit any currently carrying not a lot of excess body fat, then i doubt you will loose weight, and are likely to gain muscle bulk overall....the type of workouts you decide to do will effect this eg. long and slow for slimming and shortened and higher intensity for buiding muscle. - the erg is a great cardio workout if that is what you are looking for

[old] Manda · Post by **[old] Manda** » May 12th, 2005, 12:07 pm

Oh dear. More popular misconceptions about rowing and fitness. Seeing as this thread will attract readers with similar questions - let's set the record straight: "Anybody out there who rows/ergs and does NOT lose weight, or maybe even gain some (bigger muscles) ?" Yeah. Me and everyone else. But that's what happens when you lose body fat and improve muscle tone. Do you end up really growing muscle size? Not as much as you might think, and certainly not in the upper body. "I'm a slimbuilt cyclist and I'm thinking of buying a concept2 rower to do crosstraining. I am planning to use the erg as an overall strength machine (with high drag). Good or bad idea?" Bad idea. REALLY REALLY bad idea. Rowing involves a degree of a resistance and hence can help improve both muscle tone and flexibility, and so people often mistakenly assume rowing is as good as lifting weights for improving muscle size. The truth however is that from rowing the improvement regarding muscle is only as good as, say, using a treadmill or crosstainer. You will obtain some tone but the majority of the improvement is cardio. Thus if you want to improve muscle strength and size then focus on weight training. The other problem is that rowing will improve only rowing-specific muscles i.e. glutes, hamstrings and abs (if it's working your upper body or causing an ache in your back then your technique is wrong), and it will leave the your remaining muscles unworked. Reliance soley on rowing and/or too much rowing leads to musculature imbalance and injury in a very short period of time. For this reason competitive rowers actually spend far less time on the ergs/boats than you might thinkand more time in cross training and the weights room. The other dangerous misconception you've fallen for is that the higher the resistance the better - in fact on the higher drag settings it becomes difficult to row effectively for any length of time necessary to improve cardio or musculature fitness (I've never used a drag of 10 except for a few very rare and short spurts during carefully planned sessions where a coach is present the whole time - I really can't any benefit to a recreational user and I suspect the highest drag settings are more of an ego stroker included by the manufacturer to improve sales). At a drag of, say, 10, and without adequate coaching, all you're going to do more quickly is injure your back. "Is a C2 rower suited for this, or is it mainly an aerobic tool ?" It's neither and both. Ergs were designed to mimic (as best as possible) rowing in a boat on water so that rowers could continue their training even when they couldn't otherwise get out on the water. Racing in a rowing boat typically involves a balance of both endurance (aerobic) and explosive (anerobic) ability, with the emphasis on achieving explosiveness within the crew's aerobic range, with an anerobic piece at the end of the race to ensure you finish in first position. Ergs are used by competitive rowers to build up both aerobic and anerobic cardio endurance, and you can therefore see that from a recreational perspective you can use ergs to produce whatever aerobic or anerobic effect you want, depending on whether you go long and easy, fast hard & furious, or any a combo in between. What it won't do is make your muscles grow in size - that's only going to come with sensible weight lifting. "The thing is: I'm thin enough and I don't wanna lose bodyweight !!" So? Your solution isn't unique: obtain the services of a knowledgeable personal trainer. Lift weights to build muscle mass sensibly. Eat enough good quality food so that your body doesn't canibalise muscle or fat reserves during recovery after lifting. ""Suggestions like : "eat more" don't apply to me. when I eat more the only thing that grows is my belly. I'm the type that bodybuilders would call a hardgainer, hardly any growth in spite of heavy training (I've tried it a few years ago)." Yeah, you and everyone else who "has a go" without any idea of what a sensible weight lifting plan is. "On the other hand: when I cycle a lot (summer) I always lose about 2 kilo's." Yeah, you and everyone else who engages in excessive cardio exercise. So: to answer your question of whether you should use an erg "as an overall strength machine" - As part of a fitness building plan you might personally find using an erg is more entertaining/enjoyable c.f. more traditional cardio machines like a treadmill or x-trainers. If, however, you think an erg is a suitable replacement for a decent weight-lifting routine and adequate diet, then the answer is most definately NO.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » May 12th, 2005, 12:44 pm

Manda, can I be your friend? Very well said !! P.S. Welcome to the forum!

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » May 12th, 2005, 12:46 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(tomkervin @ May 2 2005, 09:55 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Interesting question. I rowed for the last 6 weeks of the 2005 season. I am mostly a weight lifter and I am using rowing for cardio. I gained 4 lbs. during that time to reach 205 lbs. at 6'-1". Age 53. I had hoped to slim down a bit-oh well.

</td></tr></table> body fat % is more instructive than scale weight. It's possible you put on some mass. Your mirror is much more truthful than a scale could ever be.

[old] Porkchop · Post by **[old] Porkchop** » May 12th, 2005, 1:14 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(DIESEL @ May 12 2005, 11:44 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Manda, can I be your friend? Very well said !! P.S. Welcome to the forum! </td></tr></table> Me, too? Porkchop

[old] trevor reznik · Post by **[old] trevor reznik** » May 12th, 2005, 2:49 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Manda @ May 12 2005, 05:07 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Oh dear. More popular misconceptions about rowing and fitness. Seeing as this thread will attract readers with similar questions - let's set the record straight: "Anybody out there who rows/ergs and does NOT lose weight, or maybe even gain some (bigger muscles) ?" Yeah. Me and everyone else. But that's what happens when you lose body fat and improve muscle tone. Do you end up really growing muscle size? Not as much as you might think, and certainly not in the upper body. "I'm a slimbuilt cyclist and I'm thinking of buying a concept2 rower to do crosstraining. I am planning to use the erg as an overall strength machine (with high drag). Good or bad idea?" Bad idea. REALLY REALLY bad idea. Rowing involves a degree of a resistance and hence can help improve both muscle tone and flexibility, and so people often mistakenly assume rowing is as good as lifting weights for improving muscle size. The truth however is that from rowing the improvement regarding muscle is only as good as, say, using a treadmill or crosstainer. You will obtain some tone but the majority of the improvement is cardio. Thus if you want to improve muscle strength and size then focus on weight training. The other problem is that rowing will improve only rowing-specific muscles i.e. glutes, hamstrings and abs (if it's working your upper body or causing an ache in your back then your technique is wrong), and it will leave the your remaining muscles unworked. Reliance soley on rowing and/or too much rowing leads to musculature imbalance and injury in a very short period of time. For this reason competitive rowers actually spend far less time on the ergs/boats than you might thinkand more time in cross training and the weights room. The other dangerous misconception you've fallen for is that the higher the resistance the better - in fact on the higher drag settings it becomes difficult to row effectively for any length of time necessary to improve cardio or musculature fitness (I've never used a drag of 10 except for a few very rare and short spurts during carefully planned sessions where a coach is present the whole time - I really can't any benefit to a recreational user and I suspect the highest drag settings are more of an ego stroker included by the manufacturer to improve sales). At a drag of, say, 10, and without adequate coaching, all you're going to do more quickly is injure your back. "Is a C2 rower suited for this, or is it mainly an aerobic tool ?" It's neither and both. Ergs were designed to mimic (as best as possible) rowing in a boat on water so that rowers could continue their training even when they couldn't otherwise get out on the water. Racing in a rowing boat typically involves a balance of both endurance (aerobic) and explosive (anerobic) ability, with the emphasis on achieving explosiveness within the crew's aerobic range, with an anerobic piece at the end of the race to ensure you finish in first position. Ergs are used by competitive rowers to build up both aerobic and anerobic cardio endurance, and you can therefore see that from a recreational perspective you can use ergs to produce whatever aerobic or anerobic effect you want, depending on whether you go long and easy, fast hard & furious, or any a combo in between. What it won't do is make your muscles grow in size - that's only going to come with sensible weight lifting. "The thing is: I'm thin enough and I don't wanna lose bodyweight !!" So? Your solution isn't unique: obtain the services of a knowledgeable personal trainer. Lift weights to build muscle mass sensibly. Eat enough good quality food so that your body doesn't canibalise muscle or fat reserves during recovery after lifting. ""Suggestions like : "eat more" don't apply to me. when I eat more the only thing that grows is my belly. I'm the type that bodybuilders would call a hardgainer, hardly any growth in spite of heavy training (I've tried it a few years ago)." Yeah, you and everyone else who "has a go" without any idea of what a sensible weight lifting plan is. "On the other hand: when I cycle a lot (summer) I always lose about 2 kilo's." Yeah, you and everyone else who engages in excessive cardio exercise. So: to answer your question of whether you should use an erg "as an overall strength machine" - As part of a fitness building plan you might personally find using an erg is more entertaining/enjoyable c.f. more traditional cardio machines like a treadmill or x-trainers. If, however, you think an erg is a suitable replacement for a decent weight-lifting routine and adequate diet, then the answer is most definately NO. </td></tr></table> Manda, Thank you for the elaborate and slightly pedantic answer. But really, there's no need to get hysterical...heh heh. May I suggest you take a nice long and hot bath, maybe a glass of wine, and: breath in....breath out...breath in...breath out... you know.....relax !

[old] akit110 · Post by **[old] akit110** » May 12th, 2005, 3:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Manda @ May 12 2005, 12:07 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Oh dear. More popular misconceptions about rowing and fitness. Seeing as this thread will attract readers with similar questions - let's set the record straight: "Anybody out there who rows/ergs and does NOT lose weight, or maybe even gain some (bigger muscles) ?" Yeah. Me and everyone else. But that's what happens when you lose body fat and improve muscle tone. Do you end up really growing muscle size? Not as much as you might think, and certainly not in the upper body. "I'm a slimbuilt cyclist and I'm thinking of buying a concept2 rower to do crosstraining. I am planning to use the erg as an overall strength machine (with high drag). Good or bad idea?" Bad idea. REALLY REALLY bad idea. Rowing involves a degree of a resistance and hence can help improve both muscle tone and flexibility, and so people often mistakenly assume rowing is as good as lifting weights for improving muscle size. The truth however is that from rowing the improvement regarding muscle is only as good as, say, using a treadmill or crosstainer. You will obtain some tone but the majority of the improvement is cardio. Thus if you want to improve muscle strength and size then focus on weight training. The other problem is that rowing will improve only rowing-specific muscles i.e. glutes, hamstrings and abs (if it's working your upper body or causing an ache in your back then your technique is wrong), and it will leave the your remaining muscles unworked. Reliance soley on rowing and/or too much rowing leads to musculature imbalance and injury in a very short period of time. For this reason competitive rowers actually spend far less time on the ergs/boats than you might thinkand more time in cross training and the weights room. The other dangerous misconception you've fallen for is that the higher the resistance the better - in fact on the higher drag settings it becomes difficult to row effectively for any length of time necessary to improve cardio or musculature fitness (I've never used a drag of 10 except for a few very rare and short spurts during carefully planned sessions where a coach is present the whole time - I really can't any benefit to a recreational user and I suspect the highest drag settings are more of an ego stroker included by the manufacturer to improve sales). At a drag of, say, 10, and without adequate coaching, all you're going to do more quickly is injure your back. "Is a C2 rower suited for this, or is it mainly an aerobic tool ?" It's neither and both. Ergs were designed to mimic (as best as possible) rowing in a boat on water so that rowers could continue their training even when they couldn't otherwise get out on the water. Racing in a rowing boat typically involves a balance of both endurance (aerobic) and explosive (anerobic) ability, with the emphasis on achieving explosiveness within the crew's aerobic range, with an anerobic piece at the end of the race to ensure you finish in first position. Ergs are used by competitive rowers to build up both aerobic and anerobic cardio endurance, and you can therefore see that from a recreational perspective you can use ergs to produce whatever aerobic or anerobic effect you want, depending on whether you go long and easy, fast hard & furious, or any a combo in between. What it won't do is make your muscles grow in size - that's only going to come with sensible weight lifting. "The thing is: I'm thin enough and I don't wanna lose bodyweight !!" So? Your solution isn't unique: obtain the services of a knowledgeable personal trainer. Lift weights to build muscle mass sensibly. Eat enough good quality food so that your body doesn't canibalise muscle or fat reserves during recovery after lifting. ""Suggestions like : "eat more" don't apply to me. when I eat more the only thing that grows is my belly. I'm the type that bodybuilders would call a hardgainer, hardly any growth in spite of heavy training (I've tried it a few years ago)." Yeah, you and everyone else who "has a go" without any idea of what a sensible weight lifting plan is. "On the other hand: when I cycle a lot (summer) I always lose about 2 kilo's." Yeah, you and everyone else who engages in excessive cardio exercise. So: to answer your question of whether you should use an erg "as an overall strength machine" - As part of a fitness building plan you might personally find using an erg is more entertaining/enjoyable c.f. more traditional cardio machines like a treadmill or x-trainers. If, however, you think an erg is a suitable replacement for a decent weight-lifting routine and adequate diet, then the answer is most definately NO. </td></tr></table> Very thorough answer! When I first started getting into rowing, I was surprised how ectomorphic most rowers were. Much closer to runners than strength athletes. Sure there were some heavyweights who were carrying significant muscle but these were the sort of men who would have been fairly large even if they had never touched an oar in life. If I had given it some thought, I shouldn't have been surprised as even in the 2K distance, you are doing perhaps a couple hundred strokes (or 'reps') - way beyond what is usually used to induce significant muscle growth.

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