On The Virtue Of Rowing Strapless

[[old] Physicist]

Point taken Mel, I was trying to describe a sensation rather than the dynamics of what actually happens. Not really in keeping with my name I suppose!

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you've really got it (playful dig at Ranger!) you'll not bother mentioning straps any more because it'll be irrelevant </td></tr></table><br /><br />Irrelevant? Well...<br /><br />I don't see too many people racing strapless on the erg. Why? Because in racing (and going maximally fast on the erg in other situations), it can help quite a bit to trade some rate for pace and rush the slide a bit, as long as this is done knowingly and over and above the foundation of good mechanics. Strapped in, you can also cheat a bit more with a lean at the finish.<br /><br />No?<br /><br />(Playful dig at Physicist)<br /><br /> <br /><br />ranger

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Lisa+Feb 11 2005, 05:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Lisa @ Feb 11 2005, 05:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm new to the C2 but I have a question about strapless rowing. When I do it, it seems like I just dig in with my heels to pull myself back forwad at the end of a stroke. So this is using a different set of muscles. Is that the point? Or am I doing something wrong? If I'm doing it wrong, how do you pull yourself forward?<br /><br />Lisa <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Lisa,<br /><br />Yes you pull yourself back with your heels.<br /><br />The handle doesn't pull you back, nor the slope. That is easy to test by leaving your feet in the middle of the footplates. This shows it is not possible to come back in a reasonable manner, even at low rates, without pulling yourself back with your heels.<br /><br />Rowing strapless is okay for a week or so, just to learn it, but there is no point to doing it all the time. To the contrary it would ingrain very poor form and technique.<br /><br />World record holders Eskild Ebbesen and Elia Luini row at over 40 spm for their 2k's and proportional for other speeds and distances.<br /><br />For those of us who are not as tall and heavy as they are, there is no point to rowing at any more than 8 meters per stroke, every reason to keep our ratings up when we row, and most of one's rowing should be with the straps, not without them.<br />

[[old] hwt]

Hi Lisa<br /><br />Pulling yourself forward with your heels might get you up to the catch but would defeat the purpose of rowing strapless in the first place. Try to think of using your hip flexors and hamstrings and just concentrate on keeping your feet flat on the plate.

[[old] Mel Harbour]

<!--QuoteBegin-hwt+Feb 11 2005, 08:40 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hwt @ Feb 11 2005, 08:40 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi Lisa<br /><br />Pulling yourself forward with your heels might get you up to the catch but would defeat the purpose of  rowing strapless in the first place.  Try to think of using your hip flexors and hamstrings and just concentrate on keeping your feet flat on the plate. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The advice to use your hip flexors on the recovery is actually totally against what was being suggested at the GB coaching conference a couple of weeks ago. They cited use of the hip flexors to achieve body rock as being a technical fault. You need to aim to use your transversus abdominus (lower abs) instead.<br /><br />Mel

[[old] Lisa]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mel Harbour+Feb 11 2005, 11:52 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mel Harbour @ Feb 11 2005, 11:52 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br /> You need to aim to use your transversus abdominus (lower abs) instead.<br /><br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I must be doing that because my lower abs are really burning by 45 minutes or so into a rowing session.

[[old] hwt]

Thanks Mel, I will think about that next time I'm rowing strapless.

[[old] R S T]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Feb 12 2005, 12:42 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Feb 12 2005, 12:42 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br /><br /><br />Rowing strapless is okay for a week or so, just to learn it, but there is no point to doing it all the time.  To the contrary it would ingrain very poor form and technique.<br /><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Are you nuts John? <br /><br />Seriously, there is some good advice on this thread, and you are not serving any newbie well with comments such as yours re strapless rowing. <br /><br />There is a reason for you being alone in your thoughts about rowing strapless .....you are wrong.......wake up and smell the coffee. Sorry to be blunt, but there you have it. <br /><br />Its simply not funny dishing out bad advice. Especially when you are contradicting tried and tested advice from coaching professionals.<br /><br />Anyway.......my advice for any newbie is to train strapless. Stick to the advice of coaches and people on the forum who know what they are talking about. I won't name them - simple, brief research will give you all you need to know about the qualifications or lack of from the forum contributors. <br /><br />RichardT

[[old] fast and bulbous]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Feb 11 2005, 02:19 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Feb 11 2005, 02:19 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Me too, 26 spm is my highest stroke rate without losing form. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Rowing at the lowest drag possible helps with this. What drag do you row at? I now row at 110 df. or so. <br /><br />You might also have to be faster with your hands at the finish and your back at the beginning of the recovery (i.e. rotating forward at the hips). <br /><br />One good way to practice this is to row at high rate but maximally low power (i.e., not pushing and pulling very hard). Just practice the quick motion.<br /><br />I don't have any problem at all now rowing strapless at race pace and rate (e.g., 1:36 at 36 spm), although I find it quite a bit easier still to row at all rates and paces, especially high rates and paces, when strapped in.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm at 130-140 drag, i started s10ps a year ago at 95. I always ran out of endurance before the power even got a dent, that's why i've moved it up a bit. I've always been slow, and i am a 15kg overweight heavyweight. The same as 3+ mm ago by the way. <br /><br />

[[old] neilb]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Feb 11 2005, 07:42 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Feb 11 2005, 07:42 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Lisa+Feb 11 2005, 05:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Lisa @ Feb 11 2005, 05:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm new to the C2 but I have a question about strapless rowing. When I do it, it seems like I just dig in with my heels to pull myself back forwad at the end of a stroke. So this is using a different set of muscles. Is that the point? Or am I doing something wrong? If I'm doing it wrong, how do you pull yourself forward?<br /><br />Lisa <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Lisa,<br /><br />Rowing strapless is okay for a week or so, just to learn it, but there is no point to doing it all the time. To the contrary it would ingrain very poor form and technique.<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John,<br /><br />Why bother to learn it if it will ingrain very poor form and technique?<br /><br />I have used it and continue to do so, mainly during warm ups (5k) and recovery rows (60 min) and I am convinced it has made me more efficient and keeps me in better control of the stroke. I still strap up for AT work and racing.<br /><br />I understand that the key point of it is that it stops you using the straps to act as a brake. This means that all of the backward drive of the legs has been transferred via the arms, handle and chain into the flywheel whereas if you need to use the straps to brake then you have surplus energy from the drive that is not be utilised i.e. it is wasted. I do not know about you but I cannot afford to waste any energy.<br /><br />In terms of the recovery then the heels against the footrest can help with this but I am not conscious that this is the case; I think it is more the pull of the cable and the forward momentum of the body but I will confess that I have never really focused on this because it just happens even when strapless.<br /><br />Lisa may be using some contact with her heels and the footplate to help the forward movemnet but if rowing strapless helps ensure than none of the energy from the drive is wasted by having to use straps to act as a brake then rowing strapless is beneficial.<br /><br />Neil B.<br /><br />p.s. the only reason I do it for each warm up and some longer rows is that it helps me to retain the benefits. If I could learn it in a week and then not "forget" it then I would but I cannot so I need to practice it regularly. <br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-R S T+Feb 12 2005, 04:34 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(R S T @ Feb 12 2005, 04:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its simply not funny dishing out bad advice.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />Then why do you keep doing it?<br /><br />I have seen many newbies come, get injured, and disappear, after following such idiotic advice as you give, from the so called "experts".<br /><br />Far better it is, to be an observer of reality.<br /><br />World record holders Eskild Ebbesen and Elia Luini know what they're doing.

[[old] John Rupp]

Neil,<br /><br />A little strapless rowing is beneficial for balance. Beyond that, rowing constantly and primilary strapless habituates the muscles to a wrong motion that takes from the usefulness using straps. Also this is less efficient as to time. Using the upper torso for recovery vs a light touch with the tops of the feet is tiring and takes away from energy that could better be used to go faster.<br /><br />By the way, I rowed more then 6 million meters strapless two winters ago and it did nothing for my times. Then I had to relearn the use (and unuse) of my muscles for the straps.<br /><br />Thus, yes a little strapless rowing is good for balance. This doesn't take very long to learn and then is better to not be done constantly. I recently did a max split strapless, after not doing any strapless rowing for a long time, and got down to 1:33, which is close to but not as fast as what I could do with the straps.<br /><br />The only way you can come back up the slide in a reasonable manner is with the straps or the heels. The handle does not pull you back and neither does the slope. To test this, keep your feet flat on the plates and with NO straps or heel rest. Then drive hard a few times and see how long it takes you to recover.<br /><br />When you're not using the straps, then you are wasting your energy.<br /><br />I agree completely with not over using the straps as a brake. However, rowing strapless does not teach you to do this. What it does do is teach you to row without using the straps AT ALL. Big difference.

[[old] R S T]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Feb 12 2005, 11:10 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Feb 12 2005, 11:10 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-R S T+Feb 12 2005, 04:34 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(R S T @ Feb 12 2005, 04:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its simply not funny dishing out bad advice.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />Then why do you keep doing it?<br /><br />I have seen many newbies come, get injured, and disappear, after following such idiotic advice as you give, from the so called "experts".<br /><br />Far better it is, to be an observer of reality.<br /><br />World record holders Eskild Ebbesen and Elia Luini know what they're doing. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />"An observer of reality" ?????????? <br /><br />What is the weather like in your world?<br /><br />RichardT

[[old] bsemaiktehr]

I think I know better than to pick a side on this issue...<br /><br />I think rowing strapped / strapless is a preference issue with results that vary from person to person...maybe there isn't a concrete right or wrong way about it?

[[old] starboardrigged1seat]

John is right. A good way of thinking about rowing strapless is as a drill -- on the water, it would be equivalent to rowing feet out, or outside arm only, or eyes closed, or quater-stroke, etc. It is very useful in teaching to hold onto the finish, and I believe that almost every rower can benefit by doing some strapless rowing -- but by no means should all steady state be done strapless. You should train in a situation that mirrors how you're going to race -- nobody competitive trains with a drastically different drag factor than they compete at, just as nobody would line up at the start of Worlds in a boat they've never rowed. Any improvements that someone has made from an extended period of time rowing strapless could have easily been made by neuromuscularly drawing attention to a quick leg drive and holding the finish during a strapless warm up, and trying to focus on proper and effective technique during the piece. As I've stated several times in various posts, the best way of thinking about technique is a scale, a spectrum of efficiency. Rowing without straps teaches you to be more effective towards the finish and have a quicker leg drive, but training without straps is not training to be as effective as possible during a race.