20R30 DF Question

[Montecore]

That sjors 30r20 is so far outside my frame of reference that I can't even really grasp it, but as someone that has done a fairly significant amount of squatting and deadlifting but minimal aerobic training, I'm fairly confident that aerobic capacity is my limiting factor. I don't really have a good idea of the extent to which weight training is recommended as a supplement to this workout specifically and rowing in general, though.

[hjs]

That sjors 30r20 is so far outside my frame of reference that I can't even really grasp it, but as someone that has done a fairly significant amount of squatting and deadlifting but minimal aerobic training, I'm fairly confident that aerobic capacity is my limiting factor. I don't really have a good idea of the extent to which weight training is recommended as a supplement to this workout specifically and rowing in general, though.

Strenght is a factor, but really not that much. Its 90% aerobic fitness. A strong guy should easily be able to pull sub 1.40 rate, but doing it 600 times in a row is the problem

[sjors]

Tanks Henry. Yes, I'm thinking some PB's from 2017 are in reach.
Is there a rule of thumb between this workout and 30min free-rate?

FYI - My best 30r20 was 1.44.9 and free rate 30 min 1.43.1.

Free rate should have been closer to 1.42 but never gave it a go.

That's in an other league. Pff. Respect.

Tanks Henry. Yes, I'm thinking some PB's from 2017 are in reach.
Is there a rule of thumb between this workout and 30min free-rate?

FYI - My best 30r20 was 1.44.9 and free rate 30 min 1.43.1.

Free rate should have been closer to 1.42 but never gave it a go.

Think it could be 3 seconds orso. In rowing tend to not free rate 30 min often. So relative speaking rowers often have stronger 30/20 pb s.

For myself a bit even, but I haven’t done 30/20 that often. From memory 148.8 and around that time 144.5/45 free rate.

So, based on us three , we could say something between 2 and 4 seconds faster/500m. My PB free-rate from 2016 is 1:46(8486m) is maybe in reach as well. Target will be: 1:45.7

[hjs]

Siebe, think so yes, certainly have faith, also this was your first 30/20 often you get getter just by doing a few. Same for a free rate one.

[sjors]

That sjors 30r20 is so far outside my frame of reference that I can't even really grasp it, but as someone that has done a fairly significant amount of squatting and deadlifting but minimal aerobic training, I'm fairly confident that aerobic capacity is my limiting factor. I don't really have a good idea of the extent to which weight training is recommended as a supplement to this workout specifically and rowing in general, though.

First to clear something confusing. My username is sjors (it's an old acronym) but my first name is Siebe.
Seeing your length and weight you are probably more build for endurance than I am (same length but my weight is 213lbs).
So I would say, divide your training workouts between aerobic capacity(2/3) and weight training(1/3). And i.e do aerobic workouts following the polarized training method: https://www.velociouscyclingadventures. ... simplified
Succes

[Dangerscouse]

Same inspiration here: 30min/599str/8265m (1:48.8)
https://log.concept2.com/profile/1076802/log/45601392
Only 4 meters less then in my PB-year. So also quite satisfied.

Very good result Siebe. You've given me another target to aim for now

[Dangerscouse]

That sjors 30r20 is so far outside my frame of reference that I can't even really grasp it, but as someone that has done a fairly significant amount of squatting and deadlifting but minimal aerobic training, I'm fairly confident that aerobic capacity is my limiting factor. I don't really have a good idea of the extent to which weight training is recommended as a supplement to this workout specifically and rowing in general, though.

As Henry says strength isn't that important. I haven't done any weight lifting for circa four months and even before that I didn't do loads and I have never done much deadlifting at all. I'm not weak but I do think aerobic fitness is a big part of it all

[Montecore]

First to clear something confusing. My username is sjors (it's an old acronym) but my first name is Siebe.
Seeing your length and weight you are probably more build for endurance than I am (same length but my weight is 213lbs).
So I would say, divide your training workouts between aerobic capacity(2/3) and weight training(1/3). And i.e do aerobic workouts following the polarized training method: https://www.velociouscyclingadventures. ... simplified
Succes

Re: Siebe being your IRL name, I was aware, but the forum I'm from doesn't really use the 'actual first name' convention, so it'll take me a bit to get used to that. I'm Eric, btw.

I made an intro post in the training thread, but just briefly, I've gotten into rowing pretty recently after 15ish years of powerlifting/powerbuilding style training, during which time I walked around anywhere from 195-220. I'm not necessarily disinclined to continue squatting and deadlifting, but given the covid situation in the States, the gym is going to be out for me for the foreseeable future; regardless, I've neglected aerobic training for a long time, so outside of maybe doing some goblet Bulgarian split squats or kettlebell swings, my lower body resistance work is going to be limited for the time being. Upper body will be the standard pull-ups/pushups/dips, both weighted and unweighted.

Aerobic work is currently a Frankenstein'd WP/PP hybrid, with a 12 day cycle (6 UT2, 2 UT1, 1 AT, 1 TR, 2 light/off). I'm currently focusing on extending out my steady state sessions (just did an uninterrupted HM yesterday), but beyond that I'm just trying to absorb as much information from the experienced rowers on this site as I can (hence my questions about incorporating the 30r20, which I know is a classic piece and not much else). Suggestions about anything are welcome if you're so inclined, as I obviously don't know what I don't know at this point.

[Montecore]

As Henry says strength isn't that important. I haven't done any weight lifting for circa four months and even before that I didn't do loads and I have never done much deadlifting at all. I'm not weak but I do think aerobic fitness is a big part of it all

Good to know, thanks. As you can tell by my height/weight, I'm not exactly built like a tank, but, given my past training, I don't think strength is necessarily my limiting factor. I've noticed that others on this board with similar 2k times to mine have 5k and 10k times that are quite a bit faster, and that my steady state pace is also a bit lower, so building my aerobic base would seem to be the priority.

[Dangerscouse]

Good to know, thanks. As you can tell by my height/weight, I'm not exactly built like a tank, but, given my past training, I don't think strength is necessarily my limiting factor. I've noticed that others on this board with similar 2k times to mine have 5k and 10k times that are quite a bit faster, and that my steady state pace is also a bit lower, so building my aerobic base would seem to be the priority.

Distances of 2k and over are almost always limited by aerobic fitness, which can be frustratingly slow to build up.

I'd suggest doing different stroke rates as you need to be comfortable with r28+ and not just r18-20. I naturally feel natural at r28-30 and low rates have been my Achilles heel, so I have focused my attention on them. If you naturally try and avoid a session / distance they are usually the sessions to focus on.

For the stroke rates, you will have to adjust your breathing sequence as you rate up and that can take a number of weeks to get used to, but it does get easier and more natural with practice.

5k and 10k are a different type of feeling than a 2k and depending on your physiology may or may not feel relatively easier. Mental strength is something that we all need to build up through lots of tough and varied sessions. Building up experiences and confidence to rely on in the rough moments is vital for improvement.

[Montecore]

I'd suggest doing different stroke rates as you need to be comfortable with r28+ and not just r18-20. I naturally feel natural at r28-30 and low rates have been my Achilles heel, so I have focused my attention on them. If you naturally try and avoid a session / distance they are usually the sessions to focus on.

For the stroke rates, you will have to adjust your breathing sequence as you rate up and that can take a number of weeks to get used to, but it does get easier and more natural with practice.

Different stroke rates for UT2, or just different stroke rates in general? I tend to rate up on higher intensity pieces, which I assumed was normal.

It's taken some effort for me to get my UT2 down to 19; 22-23 always felt more natural to me when I was just starting out and doing something lower intensity.

[sjors]

First to clear something confusing. My username is sjors (it's an old acronym) but my first name is Siebe.
Seeing your length and weight you are probably more build for endurance than I am (same length but my weight is 213lbs).
So I would say, divide your training workouts between aerobic capacity(2/3) and weight training(1/3). And i.e do aerobic workouts following the polarized training method: https://www.velociouscyclingadventures. ... simplified
Succes

Re: Siebe being your IRL name, I was aware, but the forum I'm from doesn't really use the 'actual first name' convention, so it'll take me a bit to get used to that. I'm Eric, btw.

Hi Eric, sorry, my mistake. I'm okay with others using their username, but for me it feels strange to be called that way.

I made an intro post in the training thread, but just briefly, I've gotten into rowing pretty recently after 15ish years of powerlifting/powerbuilding style training, during which time I walked around anywhere from 195-220. I'm not necessarily disinclined to continue squatting and deadlifting, but given the covid situation in the States, the gym is going to be out for me for the foreseeable future; regardless, I've neglected aerobic training for a long time, so outside of maybe doing some goblet Bulgarian split squats or kettlebell swings, my lower body resistance work is going to be limited for the time being. Upper body will be the standard pull-ups/pushups/dips, both weighted and unweighted.

As you my know now, I see the erg as also a strength-workout-tool. And most power is coming from your legs(70% they say). So if you want to go faster use your legs.

Aerobic work is currently a Frankenstein'd WP/PP hybrid, with a 12 day cycle (6 UT2, 2 UT1, 1 AT, 1 TR, 2 light/off). I'm currently focusing on extending out my steady state sessions (just did an uninterrupted HM yesterday), but beyond that I'm just trying to absorb as much information from the experienced rowers on this site as I can (hence my questions about incorporating the 30r20, which I know is a classic piece and not much else). Suggestions about anything are welcome if you're so inclined, as I obviously don't know what I don't know at this point.

I started 4 years ago with rowing and watched a lot of video's about erging. As mentioned in some other posts lately I like to watch to Eric Murray.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLTbJO ... TJw/videos
I'm impressed by his style ow rowing. It seems so easy. And I suppose that is why he is/was so fast.
And of cause I lurked this forum for inspiration and tips.

[sjors]

Same inspiration here: 30min/599str/8265m (1:48.8)
https://log.concept2.com/profile/1076802/log/45601392
Only 4 meters less then in my PB-year. So also quite satisfied.

Very good result Siebe. You've given me another target to aim for now

Nice to be a target.
Maybe soon the tables are turned.

[Tandstad]

Same inspiration here: 30min/599str/8265m (1:48.8)
https://log.concept2.com/profile/1076802/log/45601392
Only 4 meters less then in my PB-year. So also quite satisfied.

Very strong Siebe, well done

[iangallagher]

Same inspiration here: 30min/599str/8265m (1:48.8)
https://log.concept2.com/profile/1076802/log/45601392
Only 4 meters less then in my PB-year. So also quite satisfied.

wow strong work mate! Looks like i need to work on my 30R20!!