Maffetone Heart Rate Training

[MiddleAgeCRISIS]

I just finished his free ebook. I'm intrigued and certainly would consider this low HR aerobic training. My biggest question is that he doesn't plainly state the amount of volume required to have the desired impact. How many hours per week do I need to do in my 120-130 heart rate zone?

I currently row 100km per month. Most of these are long steady state rows but my HR is typically 130-145 with a 2:20 pace. I do throw in some harder pieces 1-2 times each week (5k @ 2:10). I suspect a long row capped at 130 would currently have me at 2:30 pace. What should my week look like following the Maffetone plan?

I have been watching a youtube channel with Floris Gierman , a marathon runner . He has many interviews around this area that may help you decide whats best for you.

My plan is to go quite slow for another 1.5m metres see where that gets me to.

[Dangerscouse]

Thanks for your input, Stu. I'm just wondering if I am actually doing myself a disservice by doing all my steady state at 140-145.

I'm in florida. Always hot and humid here. I stay pretty well hydrated and my heart rate is pretty consistent when I row.

Give it a try at 130ish for 4-6 weeks and see how you feel. I'd assume you'd see some benefits in that time, albeit not dramatic but still noticeable.

[MiddleAgeCRISIS]

I think in a lot of ways this is right but we should remember, you can improve a lot from low intensity training as you work up to those hours.

Sure, just depends on how well trained you are but I would wager that the majority of people who are researching principles such as Maffetone, already are fairly well trained (or at least done a reasonable amount of training) and are looking for something to take them to a new level.

I stumbled on Maffetone having started to research zone 2 HR benefits.

I was in an absolute mess before I started rowing , I could only descend stairs on one leg, I couldnt walk down a slope confidently. I couldn't descend on a mountain bike without pain.

As an exercise to smash a load of volume without injuring myself it's been fantastic and right now its just the ticket.

I have a slight query about overall strength and whether this is going to deteriorate but i would be happy to lose muscle.

It's probably the opposite goal of many people here.

I just thought i'd share because for me its been a game changer and at the outset i was really in a mess.

[Gammmmo]

I think in a lot of ways this is right but we should remember, you can improve a lot from low intensity training as you work up to those hours.

Sure, just depends on how well trained you are but I would wager that the majority of people who are researching principles such as Maffetone, already are fairly well trained (or at least done a reasonable amount of training) and are looking for something to take them to a new level.

I stumbled on Maffetone having started to research zone 2 HR benefits.

I was in an absolute mess before I started rowing , I could only descend stairs on one leg, I couldnt walk down a slope confidently. I couldn't descend on a mountain bike without pain.

As an exercise to smash a load of volume without injuring myself it's been fantastic and right now its just the ticket.

I have a slight query about overall strength and whether this is going to deteriorate but i would be happy to lose muscle.

It's probably the opposite goal of many people here.

I just thought i'd share because for me its been a game changer and at the outset i was really in a mess.

Well that's a good story and glad you feel it's woked for you. Are you saying you went from being sedentary without much recent sporting history to rapidly ramping up (easy) volume on the rower?

Re: losing muscle, this is kinda what I was alluding to for long term endurance types. As we age I think we have to be careful with doing big volume...this is the position alot of racing cyclists find themselves in...low muscle mass, thinning bones, posture issues where your body basically becomes this machine efficient in a specific plane of movement and even heart scarring in extreme cases. I find people who are outliers interesting and I totally understand the attraction at getting really good at one thing BUT it isn't the healthiest thing especially as we age. It's very different doing these things when you are in your 20s c/w with when you are older. I've been there. That said, you do have to offset the detrimental effect on mental health if you cut back alot...alot of people use sport as a crutch. We all have to find a way to maximise things for ourselves but it's crucial to know when you're in a bubble.

[hjs]

Re: losing muscle, this is kinda what I was alluding to for long term endurance types. As we age I think we have to be careful with doing big volume...this is the position alot of racing cyclists find themselves in...low muscle mass, thinning bones, posture issues where your body basically becomes this machine efficient in a specific plane of movement and even heart scarring in extreme cases. I find people who are outliers interesting and I totally understand the attraction at getting really good at one thing BUT it isn't the healthiest thing especially as we age. It's very different doing these things when you are in your 20s c/w with when you are older. I've been there. That said, you do have to offset the detrimental effect on mental health if you cut back alot...alot of people use sport as a crutch. We all have to find a way to maximise things for ourselves but it's crucial to know when you're in a bubble.

Indeed Paul, there is a big difference between doing sports for health or performance. This talk about Maffetone is fine, but in the end gets you knowhere if you want to race. Staying with rowing, doing a 2k race is very very tough. And in the buildup to it, hard speedwork is needed. Toprowers absolute do lots of ut2 work, but thats not capped at maffetone Hr s but at latic acid numbers. Ut2 numbers can be as high as 85/90% of HRR.

Healthwise I think racing in any form is not healthy, high volume not healthy.
Easy aerobic stuff, playfull speed work, allround weightswork staying far away from. That is healthy.

[sjors]

Healthwise I think racing in any form is not healthy, high volume not healthy.
Easy aerobic stuff, playfull speed work, allround weightswork staying far away from. That is healthy.

But we all fools don't care about that.

[hjs]

Healthwise I think racing in any form is not healthy, high volume not healthy.
Easy aerobic stuff, playfull speed work, allround weightswork staying far away from. That is healthy.

But we all fools don't care about that.

Absolutely, but don,t say you do it for health. Training for health is super boring. On the other hand, and that’s a much bigger group are people who are lazy as Hell.

[sjors]

Absolutely, but don,t say you do it for health. Training for health is super boring. On the other hand, and that’s a much bigger group are people who are lazy as Hell.

Before I started rowing I did a lot of running. The last 10 years here in the waterleidingduinen : https://www.google.com/maps/place/Amste ... d4.5271504
Never felt the urge to go all out. Just enjoying the environment.
But unfortunately at the end running was to hard on my body. So now all of sudden I'm trying to beat others using a erg. Great but not healthy. True

[hjs]

Absolutely, but don,t say you do it for health. Training for health is super boring. On the other hand, and that’s a much bigger group are people who are lazy as Hell.

Before I started rowing I did a lot of running. The last 10 years here in the waterleidingduinen : https://www.google.com/maps/place/Amste ... d4.5271504
Never felt the urge to go all out. Just enjoying the environment.
But unfortunately at the end running was to hard on my body. So now all of sudden I'm trying to beat others using a erg. Great but not healthy. True

Yeah a bit like game sports, there is nothing to measure, so you never know what you really are doing. Thinks thats why those sports are the most populair. People can relate to those much. Even cycling is a bit like, its not about the absolute performance, but simply about who is first on the line.

[jackarabit]

The fastest/strongest is relative to the second fastest/strongest but old, tired and broken Is sort of absolute. Looking at sjors’ pb line, I can’t think he’s had his last rodeo!

[MiddleAgeCRISIS]

Sure, just depends on how well trained you are but I would wager that the majority of people who are researching principles such as Maffetone, already are fairly well trained (or at least done a reasonable amount of training) and are looking for something to take them to a new level.

I stumbled on Maffetone having started to research zone 2 HR benefits.

I was in an absolute mess before I started rowing , I could only descend stairs on one leg, I couldnt walk down a slope confidently. I couldn't descend on a mountain bike without pain.

As an exercise to smash a load of volume without injuring myself it's been fantastic and right now its just the ticket.

I have a slight query about overall strength and whether this is going to deteriorate but i would be happy to lose muscle.

It's probably the opposite goal of many people here.

I just thought i'd share because for me its been a game changer and at the outset i was really in a mess.

Well that's a good story and glad you feel it's woked for you. Are you saying you went from being sedentary without much recent sporting history to rapidly ramping up (easy) volume on the rower?

Re: losing muscle, this is kinda what I was alluding to for long term endurance types. As we age I think we have to be careful with doing big volume...this is the position alot of racing cyclists find themselves in...low muscle mass, thinning bones, posture issues where your body basically becomes this machine efficient in a specific plane of movement and even heart scarring in extreme cases. I find people who are outliers interesting and I totally understand the attraction at getting really good at one thing BUT it isn't the healthiest thing especially as we age. It's very different doing these things when you are in your 20s c/w with when you are older. I've been there. That said, you do have to offset the detrimental effect on mental health if you cut back alot...alot of people use sport as a crutch. We all have to find a way to maximise things for ourselves but it's crucial to know when you're in a bubble.

Cheers .Yes i was fairly sedentary - maybe an hour wattbiking a day or mountain biking think I did about 1400km riding in 2019.

Agree with the principle of mixing it up. I'm going to see where i am in 75 days and then change what I do. I'm still mountain biking 3 times a week.

I stopped competitive sport in 2006 through injury with a brief return in 2010.

In terms of the overall volume , I think i hit 1m metres for this season this morning. I did have tired arms for month 1 and after 75 days my hip flexors have stopped hurting. I was going to do 30km days and have done a couple but at the time this was too much. I was concentrating on deep tissue massage before every row and this helped massively.

My morning rows are fasted and early doors - i could feel myself "bonked" from anywhere between 8 and 24 minutes. I have lost this feeling of transition now. In my normal day to day activities , I have noticed that I dont get huge crushing hunger pangs if i miss lunch.

In terms of muscle mass , on an untrained fat basis with damaged knee my wattbike wattage was 1253 and I'm not sure what the rowing equivalent is but I think my peak power returns 1.15 split for a single row about 1 month into my rowing.

[dknickerbocker]

interesting, because an hour a day of exercise is more than probably the vast majority of people do, and you're calling it sedentary . Were you just not going that hard?

and yeah peak power training (I'm assuming you're talking about peak power with the wattbike) is different than endurance training. Creatine phosphate system and all that. They're a little bit (but not entirely) at cross purposes. But if your'e concerned with peak power you can definitely get it back.

[MiddleAgeCRISIS]

interesting, because an hour a day of exercise is more than probably the vast majority of people do, and you're calling it sedentary . Were you just not going that hard?

and yeah peak power training (I'm assuming you're talking about peak power with the wattbike) is different than endurance training. Creatine phosphate system and all that. They're a little bit (but not entirely) at cross purposes. But if your'e concerned with peak power you can definitely get it back.

I'd maybe do 34km in an hour at about 124w average or a HIIT session for 4 mins at 274 average wattage.

When riding my mountain bike, it used to take a lot of torque to shift 19.5 stone up a hill so I got trapped at a level that didnt hurt my knees but didn't generate any performance gains.

My frame appears to have a maximum load rating of 17 stone . So up to this although im still overweight , I can use my power without injury.

Above this weight , the strain of being overweight throttles my ability to deliver power without joint damage risk.

I must apologise for being slightly evangelical about the Maffetone training. As someone who has trained hard historically and judged progress by the map of pain that results afterwards, it's just exciting to have a quite repeatable sustainable plan that's working without pain.

I did have a look at the affiliate team metres in the logbook today which was motivating. I'm looking forward to getting my mobility back through this process.

[mitchel674]

Half marathon today with heart rate capped at 135 and stroke rate of 20. Had to stay at 2:30 pace to keep my heart rate from rising.

Is this exercising? I did cheat a bit at the end and did the last 1000m at 2:00, r24 just to feel a bit of a burn. Heart rate did go up to 150 with that for a bit.

[max_ratcliffe]

Half marathon today with heart rate capped at 135 and stroke rate of 20. Had to stay at 2:30 pace to keep my heart rate from rising.

Is this exercising? I did cheat a bit at the end and did the last 1000m at 2:00, r24 just to feel a bit of a burn. Heart rate did go up to 150 with that for a bit.

It's definitely exercise. The real unknown for me is how much volume is needed, which like everything else probably varies hugely from person to person even at the same fitness level. For most of us, it is difficult to really go long on the erg, unlike say for cyclists, who can actually get out in the great outdoors. And cyclists' events are in general longer than most erging pieces, so in training longer is a must for them.

At some point it must be too slow - runners don't train by hiking - but capped at 135 sounds like really good training to me.

One other aspect that I have read about is that mitochondrial growth can be inhibited by high lactic acid levels. I don't know whether there's much scientific basis to that, but if it's true, then finishing with a really hard blast might not be something to do regularly.